Inside the Military-Police Center That Spies On Baltimore's Rioters

Lasrick writes: Adam Weinstein on a program designed to catch terrorists attacking Baltimore that is now being used to spy on protesters: 'On Ambassador Road, just off I-695 around the corner from the FBI, nearly 100 employees sit in a high-tech suite and wait for terrorists to attack Baltimore. They've waited 11 years. But they still have plenty of work to do, like using the intel community's toys to target this week's street protests.' Great read.

Comments

Motive

[__aabppq7737]

Protesters can be peaceful or aggressive.

Re:Motive

[FooAtWFU]

Yeah... If anything this is a better justification than they had before. There were looters running through stores, rioters burning down buildings, and the one guy even puncturing the fire hose when the fire department tried to put the flames out. There is a much more credible, obvious, proximate threat to life and property than there would be with some shadowy nonspecific radical-jihadist plot. Things were literally on fire, people.

Re:Motive

[squiggleslash]

Yeah I thought the summary's equation of "Protestors" and "Rioters" (headline uses the latter, main text the former, apparently referring to the same people - for the record, the number of protestors in Baltimore last week was some figure conservatively estimated in the tens of thousands; the number of rioters was less than 2,000 - probably much less, being made up largely of local gangs) was rather reflective of the kneejerk reaction against any politicial activity by "the masses" in this country.

The other day I mentioned the (thankfully debunked) neo-urban-legend about a nearby Florida sheriff saying it was OK to run over protestors if they get in your way to some people in the office. At least one was fully in favor, giving a whoop when he heard it.

I was brought up in the UK, moving to the US when I was 25. The idea of treating political protests as something horrific astounds me, it's normal activity over there, you'd expect it to be accepted and supported in the country that invented the first amendment. But apparently not.

Re: Motive

[Noah Haders]

Please tell me what these Islamist terrorists are doing. There was shoe bomber, whose comical attempt to light his shoe on fire like wiley coyote was stopped by passenger. underwear bomber who did the same thing. the boston marathon guys were not aligned with a particular terrorist group like AQAP or ISIS, just touched in the head. where are all the boogeymen in the closet?

Re:Motive

[Cyberax]

They were not reduced to ashes, but rather oxidized. And no, that was a one-off event and all the security measures have failed to prevent any similar attack.

They did this with Occupy Wall Street

[rsilvergun]

Pretty much ignoring the law in the process. 9/11 really, really screwed America. It's amazing how little it takes the scare the $h!t out of enough of us to throw everything away. So many folks I knew went on and on about ho 9/11 changed everything, but it didn't really. We let it change after the fact, but there was no good reason why we had to let everything go to hell...

Re:They did this with Occupy Wall Street

[memnock]

It amazes me that protesters can be watched like terrorist suspects and "cases built against them". Yet these nazis don't do a damn thing about the corporate execs who have caused way more trouble for thousands of people all over the country.

The license plate reader image from the article shows a category for "other" along with "tax scofflaw". "Other" says nothing but fishing expedition to me. Unbelievable.

Re:They did this with Occupy Wall Street

[HiThere]

There may, indeed, have been some people who were sufficiently scared by 9/11 to think that the change in laws was desireable, but I've never met one. There certainly weren't enough to get the laws changed in less than a month. But certain people in power saw an opportunity and used it, and it MUCH harder to get a law repealed.

I don't think the country, as in most of the people living there, was ever in favor of the draconian and unconstitutional changes in the law. That doesn't much matter when both major parties are in favor of increasing the centralization of power (no matter what they say...watch what they *do*, and remember they are always willing to lie to you).

"If you have nothing to hide..."

[atfrase]

This is a perfect illustration of why the "if you have nothing to hide" argument in favor of government spying is so short-sighted. Yes, they always *say* that they will only use such powers of surveillance against foreign enemies and terrorists and child molesters and so on. But once they have such power, they will *inevitably* start using it against American citizens who are engaged in the Constitutionally protected activity of criticizing their government.

Anyone who has ever argued in favor of government spy powers needs to think long and hard about what kind of country we're becoming as a result of those powers, and whether we really want to be that kind of country.

Re:"If you have nothing to hide..."

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry but assault, vandalism, arson, destruction of public property, looting, etc are not Constitutionally protected activities no matter what the reason.

Maybe not by the US Constitution(I consider the oversight a deficiency myself), but 35 State Constitutions do recognize it.

Massachusetts's starts with a section that ends with:

"and whenever these great objects are not obtained, the people have a right to alter the government, and to take measures necessary for their safety, prosperity and happiness."

followed by:

Article VII. Government is instituted for the common good; for the protection, safety, prosperity and happiness of the people; and not for the profit, honor, or private interest of any one man, family, or class of men: Therefore the people alone have an incontestable, unalienable, and indefeasible right to institute government; and to reform, alter, or totally change the same, when their protection, safety, prosperity and happiness require it.

New Hampshire has:

[Art.] 10. [Right of Revolution.] Government being instituted for the common benefit, protection, and security, of the whole community, and not for the private interest or emolument of any one man, family, or class of men; therefore, whenever the ends of government are perverted, and public liberty manifestly endangered, and all other means of redress are ineffectual, the people may, and of right ought to reform the old, or establish a new government. The doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power, and oppression, is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.

Tennessee:

Section 2. That government being instituted for the common benefit, the doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power and oppression is absurd, slavish,
and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.

And why not Maryland:

Article 1. That all Government of right originates from the People, is founded in compact only, and instituted solely for the good of the whole; and they have, at all times, the inalienable right to alter, reform or abolish their Form of Government in such manner as they may deem expedient.

So there's a few, I could look for more states, or even other countries, but I think that's enough to establish that "no matter what the reason" may not be entirely as you may belief.

Or do you think that it won't ever be necessary to assault persons abusing state authority, or destroy public property(including setting it on fire), to achieve a given end?

And please don't quibble over the meaning of your offenses, you might as well say if I were to bring up cases of justifiable homicide that that's not what you meant when talking about murder not being acceptable while listing a string of ways to kill someone.

Sorry but the "we are so mad we can't control ourselves" is just a cop out.

Yes, Cops use that excuse. That means they can say "We were so afraid we can't control ourselves, we had to use violence too" and whatever else works to justify their own acts.

Sorry, but if you're going to demand non-aggression, cut it both ways or not at all.

 

Re:"If you have nothing to hide..."

[whistlingtony]

Have you ever noticed how some people say the government is out to get them? They get guns, they have a standoff with police, etc etc....

The difference of course is that the old white dudes are usually complaining about some imaginary slight and they are called patriots. They have a standoff and the cops usually show restraint. When poor inner city folks who actually do get crushed by the police regularly complain, well, they're just uppity thugs and vandals.... the cops move in, bash some heads, and it all goes to hell in a handbasket.

Nope, no double standard here!

Re: "If you have nothing to hide..."

[Anonymous Coward]

Looting and burning a CVS does nothing to champion liberty or overthrow a tyranny. The founding fathers would not be impressed.

Re: "If you have nothing to hide..."

[Anonymous Coward]

neither did dumping a bunch of tea in the bay

Re:"If you have nothing to hide..."

[Dereck1701]

"......are not Constitutionally protected activities"

Of course they aren't, but really what percentage of the protestors in Baltimore are taking part in those activities? I'd wager that I can display that percentage on one hand. Yet we're told that its necessary to equip police like they're fighting a war, suspend civil liberties and arrest hundreds/thousands all because of the massive amounts of footage of the same 2-5 burning cars and 5-15 damaged businesses probably caused by no more than a few dozen miscreants.

Re:"If you have nothing to hide..."

[atfrase]

If people honestly consider this "insightful" and not "troll" then we're in worse shape than I realized. Yes, there are rioters, and yes, they should be dealt with according to the law. *Nobody* is saying that arsonists, looters or vandals should be given a pass.

But let's not forget that despite what the evening news likes to insinuate, those people make up a really tiny percentage of the protesters. Are you honestly willing to throw away the ideals of this country and violate the freedom of thousands of innocent and peaceful people in order to catch a few dozen vandals?

Wonderful

[Guy From V]

Somehow, this being covered by Gawker makes me care less about this subject than I usually do.

Re:Things that make you go hmmm

[Anonymous Coward]

Yet, everyone seems fine with what the Federal government is doing to its citizens.

"Everyone" is most explicitly not "fine" with what the Federal government is doing to its citizens.

...Was Mr. Gray really a victim or part of the greater problem? He was in fact a habitual criminal with past of selling drugs like heroin.

So, this is now a death sentence, to be administered by the police in the back of a van with no trial? The US now has Judge Dredd for our legal system?

Well

[koan]

All of that "security" stuff is being used against us, I thought that was common knowledge now.

Ounce of prevention

[Al Al Cool J]

Maybe if they'd spent the 11 years using these resources to rein in police racism and brutality, there wouldn't be a need for protests.

Bad cops and systemic police racism are what's terrorizing the populace in cities like Baltimore - that's your terrorist threat right there. But law enforcement are also the ones running these centers. It's the old problem of who's watching the watchers.

Re:Ounce of prevention

[Anonymous Coward]

Cops don't give a shit about race for the most part. They are assholes to everyone and will shoot you and your dog regardless of color. The news media (and their hanldlers) want you to beleve it is all about race. At least police thuggery is starting to be noticed by more of the population now, so I'm glad that they are at least putting it on the air. I guess if white people gave a shit, they would be in the streets too.

Re:They are burning down a city

[Anonymous Coward]

They are burning down a city ... For a REASON. Perhaps you should bother to inform yourself on the conditions Baltimore's poorest live In and how the local and state governments do NOTHING to improve things. Corruption. Corruption. Corruption. This was coming and it didn't take a genius to see it. Nobody cared. They silently protested for 5 days. Nobody listened until they got mad. Maybe instead of enforcement we try actual improvements for a change.

Re:Things that make you go hmmm

[Sique]

Was Mr. Gray really a victim or part of the greater problem? He was in fact a habitual criminal with past of selling drugs like heroin.

He is the victim. He is a human being with the constitutional right not to have his spine broken by someone. He still has his constitutional rights even if you think he is a bad person. And there is that thing about human rights. You have them as a human, completely independent of you behaviour. I know that some people dream of stripping other people of their human rights because they dislike them. But that's a thinking we usually call totalitarian.

I have an idea

[slashmydots]

You know what might be an even better idea than tracking movement and gathering intel? DOING SOMETHING about the rioters.

Re:They are burning down a city

[houghi]

I can assume that this will be happening more and more as the devide between the haves and have nots gets bigger and bigger.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

I just hope I am not arround anymore when it happens.

Re:They are burning down a city

[mrchaotica]

The city fucking deserves what it got!

If Baltimore's police wasn't made up of murderous, jackbooted thugs, then there wouldn't be any riots in the first place.

Compare and contrast Baltimore or Ferguson to Charleston and how the latter city handled the Walter Scott murder. Whereas the governments of Ferguson and Baltimore (until recently) dug in their heels against their own citizens in defense of their corrupt police, Charleston's leadership had the basic decency to prosecute a blatantly obvious crime without trying to spin or weasel their way out of it. As a direct consequence, there have been no riots in Charleston.

The lesson for government here is simple: if you don't want riots, then respect the citizens' rights!

Re: Complete Bullshit.

[AlyWest]

does is it really destroy society? Or is it the cops killing American citizens that destroys society?

Re:They are burning down a city

[bl968]

“I was watching the news last night,” said Morgan Freeman. “and said, ‘You know, when we were out here marching peacefully, nobody was here. And now we start burning the place down, everybody is listening. What do you think we’re gonna do to be heard?’

Re:Things that make you go hmmm

[WaffleMonster]

Was Mr. Gray really a victim or part of the greater problem? He was in fact a habitual

Judging others is a surprisingly worthless enterprise.

criminal with past of selling drugs like heroin.

One of the underlying problems governments face is they refuse to understand use of force to preserve "freedom for all" only works against outliers.

Illicit drug trade is one of the worlds largest enterprises. Millions of people use illicit drugs in the USA. Governments everywhere are squandering their legitimacy to create artificial scarcity fueling a self-destructive feedback loop. As a result entire countries have or are on the verge of loosing their monopoly on the use of force.

Oh and by the way capitalism, technology and global labor markets are not free. If winners (those who have means) are not serious about helping losers don't expect resulting society to not suck.

have military doing crowd control exercises and practicing for martial law and yet we protest over the death of a drug dealer?

We can all walk and chew gum at the same time. Unprofessional behavior of LEA causes real injury and death. Preparing for the next apocalypse is in and of itself mostly harmless.

Yes, let's disarm the police and see how badly order falls in these neighborhoods.

The more you find yourself having to rely on force, rise of police agencies indistinguishable from military and associated panopticon bullshit that would make NSA proud the more you are losing. The focus should be on winning not losing.

I have a nasty habit of blaming the media. Full of tired, utterly lazy and stupid talking heads who increasingly only cares about itself.. willing to accept no responsibility for the aggregate effect of deliberate intentional selection of train wreck narratives propagated 24x7.

Media promotion of FUD and strife is doing real damage poisoning the minds of voters into seeking out counterproductive policy decisions and dividing rather than uniting tribes.

Re:Military Police?

[Hartree]

No, it's within the limits of the law. The National Guard Military Police units are considered to be troops controlled by the individual state (think the 13 colonies initially). In this case they were ordered onto the street by the state governor.

As for Federal troops, the Posse Comitatus Act deals with using Federal troops in police enforcement and has only been around since 1878. There has been an ongoing tension between what powers belonged to the states and what belonged to the federal government.

Now, in reality, there's relatively little difference between the Guard and federal troops, and the Guard can be "federalized" with an order from the President, and there are several other exceptions to the Posse Comitatus Act. But, it falls within the letter of the law.

Re:They are burning down a city

[sumdumass]

And when they were marching peacefully, I thought, that is horrible what happened to that guy. I hope those cops pay for it. When they were burning the place down, I thought this sort of justifies why the cops treat people like animals in some places and it's no wonder they shoot first and ask questions later.

I'm wondering if he thinks the message they want heard is what is actually being heard when everybody is listening?

Re:They are burning down a city

[Anonymous Coward]

There was a quote from the Orioles' VP, John Angelos:

"That said, my greater source of personal concern, outrage and sympathy beyond this particular case is focused neither upon one night's property damage nor upon the acts, but is focused rather upon the past four-decade period during which an American political elite have shipped middle class and working class jobs away from Baltimore and cities and towns around the U.S. to third-world dictatorships like China and others, plunged tens of millions of good hard-working Americans into economic devastation, and then followed that action around the nation by diminishing every American's civil rights protections in order to control an unfairly impoverished population living under an ever-declining standard of living and suffering at the butt end of an ever-more militarized and aggressive surveillance state."

People need to understand the above, as it is the root cause for these types of issues. If things continue down the path we're on, the unrest will only worsen. The truly dangerous and foolish will be the ones who advocate for more extreme police measures as a response, rather than addressing the underlying causes of the unhappiness.

Re: Complete Bullshit.

[dryeo]

Or is it the lack of jobs that cause people to fall back on illegal means of livelihood that is destroying American society?

Re: Complete Bullshit.

[dryeo]

What do you do for a livelihood if there are no jobs available? It's rather lay down and die or create a business serving the needs around you. If the only profitable needs are illegal...

Isn't there something better to do?

[RuffMasterD]

It just baffles me that someone is willing to pay almost 100 people to sit around waiting for terrorists. Did somebody look at the accounts and think to themselves "Dude, we gotta get rid of this money somehow"? Think of all the great things you could achieve if you put 100 smart people together and gave them all the time and resources they needed. Could we figure out how to provide universal healthcare for half the cost? Create a male contraceptive pill? Or an AIDS vaccine? A battery that stores 10 times the energy in one tenth the weight? Double solar panel efficiency for half the cost? Figure out how to provide a universal minimum income for everyone without disincentivizing hard work in those who are capable? Reduce police brutality? Anything at all that could make the world even marginally better in any measurable way? Nothing?

So the most productive task we can put 100 people towards is sitting around waiting for terrorists.
Agent1: Hay man, seen any terrorists today?
Agent2: Nah. You?
Agent1: Nothing.
Agent2: I saw a cat licking itself. Check this out...
Agent1: Cool

Why is this even tolerated?

Re:They are burning down a city

[mrchaotica]

Blah, blah, blah.

I have one word -- just one word -- that renders your entire argument moot. You want to know what it is? Alright, here it comes:

EUROPE.

Somehow, the police in Europe manage to deal with the same kinds of crime we have here, yet manage to do it without killing nearly as many people as our police do. One statistic I've heard is that American police killed more people in March than the UK police have since 1900. That's one month vs. more than a century. (And I don't care that the US population is higher; it doesn't matter -- we're talking orders of magnitude here!) There is no explanation, other than American police having a SYSTEMIC problem of incompetence, corruption, and needless brutality.

Also note that, while bad cops are bad cops, "good" cops that cover for bad cops are bad cops too. The problem in Ferguson and Baltimore is not that one bad cop fucked up, it's that one bad cop fucked up and all the other bad cops -- namely, the vast majority of the cops in those jurisdictions -- defended him!

In other words, it's "only" 99% of cops who make the rest look bad.