Tesla Adds Used Models To Its Inventory, For Online Purchase

Jalopnik reports that Tesla Motors Inc. has very quietly started to sell used cars online, following in the footsteps of larger car companies. Its new certified vehicle program brings down the staggering costs of one of their electric cars while still ensuring manufacturer maintenance and repairs. Most of the cars that are on Tesla’s website were previously owned by people who have since traded up to the AWD Model S. Soon, this stockpile will also include leased Teslas. Engadget adds You're limited to shopping in a handful of cities in the U.S. and Canada, but the cars come with a 4-year, 50,000-mile warranty to assuage fears that you've bought a lemon. No, the move doesn't make the company's luxury EVs much more attainable -- the best offer we've seen so far is for a $59,000 'entry' model.

Comments

Far too expensive for a used car

[YrWrstNtmr]

If I could afford $70k for a used one, I could afford a new one.

Washington, used P85, 19,000 miles, $79,000.
New P85D, $87,500.
Why would I bother with the used one?

Re:Far too expensive for a used car

[t0qer]

Unlike internal combustion engines, electric brushless motors can last pretty much forever. Drivetrain wear is probably the #1 reason cars depreciate in value. If there's no wear, there's no depreciation.

Re:Far too expensive for a used car

[paskie]

Maybe you have never owned a notebook or a cellphone, so let me note: batteries deteriorate.

Re:Far too expensive for a used car

[YrWrstNtmr]

Drivetrain wear. And seat cushions, and pedal surfaces, and all that other stuff that shows wear damage after use.
Yes, they are great cars. But why would I pay $60-70K for a used one, when a new one isn't that much more?

A BMW, $50k new. A few years old, $25k. That works. If that used BMW were $45k...that would NOT work.

Re:Far too expensive for a used car

[Whorhay]

I expect that Teslas will depreciate but it'll just be less than with an ICE powered car. I'll be looking for a 30-40% depreciation before I could dream of talking the spouse into buying one.

Re:Far too expensive for a used car

[BasilBrush]

The used Tesla prices will respond to demand. If there's not enough demand at those prices, they lower the prices. If there's a glut of used cars to sell (like the ex-leased ones that will come along before long), then the price will be lowered. The initial high prices probably reflect the fact that there aren't many used Teslas as yet.

Re:Far too expensive for a used car

[YrWrstNtmr]

Also, do I get the $7,500 Fed tax credit? Or does that only apply to the original buyer? I don't know either way, but something to investigate before taking the plunge on a used one.

Re:Far too expensive for a used car

[sribe]

They are super expensive, and I have yet to see any battery tech that lasts over 4 years, and normally it is performing far worse than optimal at a fraction of that time.

Actual tests on actual used cars (by Consumer Reports) demonstrate that what you say is unequivocally wrong for the batteries used in EVs and hybrids. No, the ones in our notebooks and phones don't last so long, because size and weight are more important than lasting 10 years. Cars are designed differently, for different longevity/size/weight tradeoffs than are portable electronics.

Re:Far too expensive for a used car

[compro01]

Actually, they are about the same type. Tesla's packs use a modified (PTC fuse and CID removed) version of the bog standard 18650 Li-ion cell, which is commonly used in laptop batteries.

It's the battery management system and the cooling system that would make the difference in longevity.

Re:Far too expensive for a used car

[CrankyFool]

I'd be shocked if you also got the federal tax credit. For one thing, it could lead to fun games: Imagine if every purchaser of the car gets the $7500 tax credit.

I buy it from the factory, I get $7500 (but pay about $100K).
I sell it to you for $7500. You get $7500 back. It's free to you.
You sell it to me for $7500. I get $7500 back. I keep my car, and you just made $7500.

Repeat as necessary.

Re:Far too expensive for a used car

[ShanghaiBill]

It's the battery management system and the cooling system that would make the difference in longevity.

Usage patterns also matter. Plenty of people, like my wife and kids, regularly run down their phones and laptops to 0%, even when there is a charger three feet away. Most people commute 30 miles or less in a day, which is only about 15% of a Tesla's range.

Re:Far too expensive for a used car

[Smidge204]

From owner's estimations, ~90% of the battery's stated capacity is actually available for use. The 10% is not so much "fail-over" capacity as it is a buffer to keep the battery away from the extremes of charge/discharge states, where most of the degradation occurs.

Your cell phone battery has no problems charging to 100%, since you want to get as much energy (and therefore use time) in there as possible for the weight. However, charging to 100% harms the chemistry, and after a few years the battery no longer lasts as long. That's fine for a cell phone - part of it is planned obsolescence, part of it is the reality that a lot of people won't keep their phone more than a few years.

In an EV you have the luxury of maintaining a charge buffer, since the added weight and cost is fairly minimal and people have a much higher expectation of long-term performance.

So usage pattern + design (thermal management) + energy management which does prevent the user from destroying it = significantly different performance degradation profile.
=Smidge=

Re:Far too expensive for a used car

[Anonymous Coward]

There's also a waitlist for new Teslas, since demand is currently higher than the rate the Tesla can produce them.

Re:Far too expensive for a used car

[Notabadguy]

No, you do not.

If you look at the federal tax credits at fueleconony.gov, the tax credit only applies to the first owner of the vehicle, only for new vehicles, and only in certain years.

If you lease a new EV, the dealership keeps the federal tax credit as well. If you look at the forms at fueleconomy.gov, it's pretty specific.

Re:Far too expensive for a used car

[Agripa]

Motors should be more reliable than engines and transmissions but I have changed more wheel bearings than engine and transmission bearings. I have little doubt that Tesla makes a well designed and reliable electronic drivetrain but I expect companies like GMC to build carefully crafted junk when they get around to it.

Re:Far too expensive for a used car

[adolf]

You think your wife and kids won't regularly run a Tesla down to 0% (for various values of "0"), even when there is a charger three feet away from where it is parked?

Where's the link?

[crow]

I went to http://www.teslamotors.com/ and I didn't see any reference to used cars. The stories say they "quietly" started selling used cars, but "quiet" appears to be an understatement when you can't find it even if you're looking.

Nice, missing new features, limited filtering

[crow]

Thanks to the person who posted the link:

http://www.teslamotors.com/mod...

Some of these cars are great deals.

You won't find the dual-motor versions, so they're all rear-wheel drive.

I don't think you'll find the autopilot feature on any of them.

And the real frustrating part of the experience is that the filters are very limited. You can't filter on particular features, such as panoramic roof, subzero package, or rear-facing seats.

I expect they'll improve the filtering when they have more than 20 cars to look at.

$59k isn't bad

[damn_registrars]

Yeah, it isn't a whole lot less than the cost of one new, but it really isn't a bad deal. If you compare it to a BMW 5 series - most of which start above $50k new - and consider that the BMW will be much more costly to maintain, the Tesla becomes a good deal pretty quickly.

Tesla DOES use laptop batteries

[DrYak]

No, the ones in our notebooks and phones don't last so long, because size and weight are more important than lasting 10 years. Cars are designed differently, for different longevity/size/weight tradeoffs than are portable electronics.

Except that Tesla (and Smarts, and the few other cars which use batteries manufactured by Tesla) use *the exact same kind* of battery cells as regular laptops (on purpose, because they are cheap and easy to source due to the economy of the scale at which they are produced).

The difference isn't the battery it self (it the exact same cell), it's the battery management software, and the usage pattern.

- Lithium batteries age with the number of cycle they go through. It happens really often that a laptop is drained all the way down to 0% or nearly 0% (lithium batteries hate that). Whereas most of the daily commute Tesla cars are subjected to are short trips that only eat a fraction of their charge.

- The more violent the discharge rate, the faster the lithium battery will age. Under heavy load, a laptop battery will get completely drained in hour or two max. On the other hand, given its range and typical speed limitation, it would take at least 4-5 hours to drain completely a Tesla. i.e.: overall the Tesla eats up much more total power than your laptop (obviously), but each of the cells is put to less stress as it needs to deliver a much lower peak current.

(The two above are also the reason why the *extended life* batteries (e.g.: 9 cells instead of 6 cells) in laptops tend to age much slower).

- Also lithium batteries are very sensitive to temperature / environment. Whereas it's not that much controlled in a laptop (the battery tends to be right next to very hot components like CPU and GPU), Tesla car batteries have almost their own A/C system.

so in short:
- no they are exactly the same batteries. but each takes completely different kind of abuses and thus at the end they tend to age differently.

Maybe just the newer models

[R3d M3rcury]

They've had a link to pre-owned roadsters for awhile. Of course, it's rare to actually find one, dammit...