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Why Scientists Love 'Lord of the Rings'
HughPickens.com writes: Julie Beck writes in The Atlantic that though science and fantasy seem to be polar opposites, a Venn diagram of "scientists" and "Lord of the Rings fans" have a large overlap which could (lovingly!) be labeled "nerds." Several animal species have been named after characters from the books, including wasps, crocodiles, and even a dinosaur named after Sauron, "Given Tolkien's passion for nomenclature, his coinage, over decades, of enormous numbers of euphonious names—not to mention scientists' fondness for Tolkien—it is perhaps inevitable that Tolkien has been accorded formal taxonomic commemoration like no other author," writes Henry Gee. Other disciplines aren't left out of the fun—there's a geologically interesting region in Australia called the "Mordor Alkaline Igneous Complex," a pair of asteroids named "Tolkien" and "Bilbo," and a crater on Mercury also named "Tolkien."
"It has been documented that Middle-Earth caught the attention of students and practitioners of science from the early days of Tolkien fandom. For example, in the 1960s, the Tolkien Society members were said to mainly consist of 'students, teachers, scientists, or psychologists,'" writes Kristine Larsen, an astronomy professor at Central Connecticut State University, in her paper "SAURON, Mount Doom, and Elvish Moths: The Influence of Tolkien on Modern Science." "When you have scientists who are fans of pop culture, they're going to see the science in it," says Larson. "It's just such an intricate universe. It's so geeky. You can delve into it. There's the languages of it, the geography of it, and the lineages. It's very detail oriented, and scientists in general like things that have depth and detail." Larson has also written papers on using Tolkien as a teaching tool, and discusses with her astronomy students, for example, the likelihood that the heavenly body Borgil, which appears in the first book of the trilogy, can be identified as the star Aldebaran. "I use this as a hook to get students interested in science," says Larson. "I'm also interested in recovering all the science that Tolkien quietly wove into Middle Earth because there's science in there that the casual reader has not recognized."
"It has been documented that Middle-Earth caught the attention of students and practitioners of science from the early days of Tolkien fandom. For example, in the 1960s, the Tolkien Society members were said to mainly consist of 'students, teachers, scientists, or psychologists,'" writes Kristine Larsen, an astronomy professor at Central Connecticut State University, in her paper "SAURON, Mount Doom, and Elvish Moths: The Influence of Tolkien on Modern Science." "When you have scientists who are fans of pop culture, they're going to see the science in it," says Larson. "It's just such an intricate universe. It's so geeky. You can delve into it. There's the languages of it, the geography of it, and the lineages. It's very detail oriented, and scientists in general like things that have depth and detail." Larson has also written papers on using Tolkien as a teaching tool, and discusses with her astronomy students, for example, the likelihood that the heavenly body Borgil, which appears in the first book of the trilogy, can be identified as the star Aldebaran. "I use this as a hook to get students interested in science," says Larson. "I'm also interested in recovering all the science that Tolkien quietly wove into Middle Earth because there's science in there that the casual reader has not recognized."
Except for those pesky Eagles, who fix all the problems, except for that one huge Ring problem wherein no one bothers to ask for their help.
Actually, the most fun I've seen in parallels to LOTR is not in science, but in Shakespeare. (Tolkien was an English Prof, remember.) First, the "Crack of Doom" is a phrase which comes from the Scottish Play. Second, two of Sauron's great captains fell in ways in was prophesied MacBeth should fall: The Lord of the Nazgul was struck down by no man of woman born; and Saruman was struck down when the forest came to Isengard.
Today? That one's been around forever.
Indeed, I am sure that many, many posts of many self-admittedly brilliant minds with exactly the same observation are sitting in thirty-year-old alt.sex.binaries.lotr.eagles.plothole usenet archives, each one basking brightly in the author's originality, wit, and critical thinking skills.
Was sorry to see point hat go.
http://www.ealasaid.com/misc/v...
Admittedly, their helping at the end is *after* the Ring is destroyed and at the direct request of Gandalf, right?
I don't think it's a really big plot hole. If that's a plot hole, why didn't Gandalf send a letter to Valinor along with some Exiles (who were leaving constantly) asking for another Host of the Vanyar and Maiar ala the breaking of Thangorodrim? The answer is "because he knew the answer: they would not come". Same with the Eagles.
HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
LOL ... heresy!! Turn in your nerd badge!! Burn the witch!
Honestly though, you don't have to like Tolkien, but you also can't say anything about the modern fantasy genre without in some way referencing him ... wizards, elves, dwarves, hobbits, and dragons ... you either have these things in the idiom of Tolkien, or you consciously have them not in the idiom of Tolkien.
But you can't have any of these things without either following his roadmap, or explicitly rejecting it. You certainly can't have those things independent of what he did.
So, from D&D to Skyrim, and pretty much everything in between -- none of it happens without in some way referencing Tolkien.
In that regards, the significance of his work is impossible to underestimate. The quality as literature at this point is overshadowed by it's significance as literature.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Because hobbits tend to fall off the back of eagles during aerial combats with fellbeasts. No, flying them in on eagles is a terrible idea.
Short version: why didn't they just ask the Eagles to fly them to Mordor? Or over the mountains?
Short (prevalent) answer: Eagles would be extremely easy to spot over the skies of Mordor, and thus would be stopped before they got to Mount Doom. They were willing/able to pick up Frodo at the end because Sauron had already been defeated.
More discussion here
To further elaborate, Elrong makes direct reference to sending the Ring over the Sea. "And they who dwell beyond the Sea would not receive it: for good or ill it belongs to Middle-earth; it is for us who still dwell here to deal with it."
The Eagles are representations of those who dwell beyond the Sea, Manwe in particular. Tolkien answered your question fully.
HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
Or, alternately, Lew Rockwell and others are poncy, pretentious literati who deem themselves the arbiters of what it and isn't true, and nobody gives a shit what they think?
Tolkien himself said:
So, maybe the people who are saying "it is or it isn't this" are largely full of shit?
(Which, I think, is what you said in your last paragraph before the quote).
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Just a few more. Who's the eldest being in Middle Earth, Tom Bombadil or Treebeard? Is mithril "supple as linen", and if so why did Bilbo hurt himself when slapping Frodo's mithril coat? So Galadriel knows Sauron's thoughts that concern the elves, but didn't know of Saruman's betrayal, or never saw relevant to mention it to Gandalf? Why does Gandalf warn people against using devices "of an art deeper than we possess ourselves" when talking about the palantir and yet have no problem with with the fellowship using all sorts of magical items of arts deeper than they possess (glowing elvish swords, daggers from the barrow, the Phial of Galadriel, Galadriel's box of earth, etc)? Is "Sauron" (lit. "abominable") a name that he despises and does not permit his underlings to speak, and if so, why does he have his messenger refer to him as "Lord Sauron the Great" and a servant refer to himself as "the mouth of Sauron"? Are Thranduil's favorite gems emeralds, or white-colored gems? Did Sauron prohibit the Nazgûl to traverse west of the Anduin, and if so why did one fly over the Fellowship at Hollin? Etc.
Tolkien was human. Humans make mistakes and oversights.
Sigur RÃs: I didn't know that Heaven had a rock band.
But that particular issue is safe for work: http://oglaf.com/ornithology/
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
Tolkien was human. Humans make mistakes and oversights.
Indeed. He could also have kept Aragorn as a hobbit named Trotter instead of a human and now we would be debating a number of different inconsistencies.
Who's the eldest being in Middle Earth, Tom Bombadil or Treebeard?
It would seem pretty obvious that Treebeard cannot be older than Tom Bombadil (who claims to remember "the first raindrop and the first acorn"). I would hardly consider this a "most noticeable inconsistency"
The better answer, from the full lore, is: union rules. The Ents and the Eagles were created to watch over flora and fauna, respectively, mostly to protect them from man. The Wizards were created to watch over man. These duties were handed down directly from the god of Tolkien's world (who's name escapes me). It simply wouldn't be right for Gandalf to ask the Eagles to do his own damn job for him.
Rescuing Gandalf personally, that's a favor to a coworker "sure, I'll give you a ride to work - pick you up where? A tower? OK, that's convenient, thanks."
But of course all of that is based on stuff from the Silmarillion - none of it is in the actual LOTR story, so it's no more canon than Mordor having emplaced 88s protecting Mt Doom.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
How can you miss the entire story - the whole plot line was to keep the whereabouts of the ring hidden, distract Sauron and company, and get the ring into Mt Doom. Flying eagles (which Sauron would be able to see) would just instantly attract his attention and locate the ring. Mission over.
OK, my geek card is burning.
The cesspool just got a check and balance.
Bombadil was "eldest and fatherless".
Treebeard was merely the eldest Ent. Note that the Ents were awakened to sentience by the Elves, so Galadriel (who was among the Firstborn of the Elves) was older than Treebeard as well.
Note that the age of any particular Elf is problematic in general - very few of the Firstborn were mentioned by name, which is not the same as "only a few of the Firstborn were still alive in Middle Earth (much less in Valinor)".
Because they weren't speaking English, and it's annoying to have names for characters vary within a literary work? Or possibly because the comment about "he permits his name to be neither spelt nor spoken" was an exaggeration by Gandalf (the wisest of the Maiar) when speaking of Sauron (the most powerful of the Maiar)?
Because he meant "an art deeper than *I* possess" when he said that (he was using the Royal "we"...). The work of Feanor was beyond even the Maiar, unlike sharp pointy things made by Elves and handed out by same to diverse characters....
Saruman was NOT an elf (it's not clear what he was - perhaps a Maiar like Gandalf). So "thoughts that concern the elves" didn't apply. Note that the thoughts in question weren't "thoughts of interest to elves", but "thought about the elves".
Oh, and the mithril shirt pretty much had to be hard enough to stop a blade, or there was no point to it. Most likely the "supple as linen" was marketing-speak for "amazingly light and flexible by the standards of a mailshirt". What, you didn't think they had marketing in Middle Earth? Marketing was one of those evils even older than Sauron that was mentioned in passing....
"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
The Eagles are representations of those who dwell beyond the Sea,
Actually, most of them were born in the Midwest or Texas.
At least in my experience there seems to be a large overlap between climbers, Co. Sci. peeps, and Mathematicians.
putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
But Gandalf calls Treebeard "the oldest of all living things" and Celeborn calls him "Eldest".
Sigur RÃs: I didn't know that Heaven had a rock band.
One does not simply fly into Mordor.
I've got a postal worker on a gyrocopter that proves you're wrong.
Maybe Bombadil isn't a "living thing". It is considered by some that he is one of the Maia (like Gandalf) from the creation of the world, but one who went native and stayed in Middle Earth instead of associating with the Ainur in the west. (Do I get Colbert brownie points for this one?)
Burn the land and boil the sea........
You're right that Galadriel is not a first-born. However, the entire race of elves is also referred to as First-Born in the Tolkien universe, as they awakened in the world before mortal men did. The LOTR movies do feature a first-born elf, just for a fraction of a second—right at the beginning, when three elves hold up the rings of power, and right at the end when Gandalf and Frodo set to sea. This elf is Círdan the shipwright, of the Grey Havens. http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/C%C...