Europe Vows To Get Rid of Geo-Blocking

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Europe Vows To Get Rid of Geo-Blocking

Posted by Soulskill on Wednesday May 6, 2015 @04:26AM from the this-article-only-available-at-select-latitudes dept.

AmiMoJo writes: The European Commission has adopted a new set of initiatives for digital technologies that aims to improve access to online services for everyday users. Among other things, Europe vows to end geo-blocking, which it describes as "a discriminatory practice used for commercial reasons," and lift other unwarranted copyright restrictions. Consumers will have the right to access content they purchased at home in other European countries. "I want to see every consumer getting the best deals and every business accessing the widest market – wherever they are in Europe," Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker says.

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What about the law by Anonymous Coward · 2015-05-06 04:31 · Score: 1

How will this work with respect to blocking content based on IP, due to local laws that make such content illegal only in certain areas (such as Nazi stuff in Germany)?
1. Re:What about the law by JMJimmy · 2015-05-06 04:35 · Score: 0
  
  How will this work with respect to blocking content based on IP, due to local laws that make such content illegal only in certain areas (such as Nazi stuff in Germany)?
  Don't you know, the courts now think they have global jurisdiction.
2. Re:What about the law by Adriax · 2015-05-06 04:46 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  This stuff is perfectly legal to own in the blocked areas. The content owners just want to make sure someone viewing their content in Germany must pay the German price for it, instead of say the French price. Even if the customer is French, already bought the content in France, and is visiting Germany temporarily.
  The Nazi stuff, on the other hand, is not legal in Germany.
  
  --
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3. Re:What about the law by ls671 · 2015-05-06 04:54 · Score: 2
  
  TFS talks about geo-blocking, not blocking IPs based on content.
  
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  Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
4. Re:What about the law by thsths · 2015-05-06 05:00 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  > This stuff is perfectly legal to own in the blocked areas. The content owners just want to make sure someone viewing their content in Germany must pay the German price for it, instead of say the French price.
  Yes, there are two parts to it. The article says that content once bought should be available in the whole of the EU. So far, if you are on holiday in France, you can't use your existing streaming account, Kindle downloads or MP3s. Clearly that is wrong, because nobody would buy content again just for a holiday (apart from the fact that you would need a credit card registered at a local address).
  The problem of separate markets is a different one. It is also on the European agenda, but the issue will be much more contentious. But that is not a geoblocking issue.
5. Re:What about the law by Anonymous Coward · 2015-05-06 05:23 · Score: 0
  
  No, only the American and Italian courts. The American courts because anyone disagreeing with them gets bombed to the Stone Age, and the Italians because... Because!
6. Re:What about the law by Luckyo · 2015-05-06 05:27 · Score: 1
  
  This is a story about specific form of content blocking: geoblocking for commercial reasons. What you are asking about is a completely different kind of blocking: blocking because of legal reasons. Therefore it's safe to say that this will not impact it in any shape or form.
7. Re:What about the law by CastrTroy · 2015-05-06 05:37 · Score: 2
  
  This type of thing can have good and bad sides though. Somebody in Germany or the UK likely has a lot more money to spend than somebody in Greece. With Geo-blocking, you can charge people in Greece a price they can afford, and you can charge the people in Germany a price they can afford. If you aren't allowed to discriminate based on where the customer is, the only options are to charge Greek prices to everyone, or have the item at a price where Greeks couldn't afford the item. If they price it at a price that Greeks can afford it, then they are quite limited in how much money the can make, so they will probably opt to just charge the German price to everyone, and Greeks are left without any option of paying for the product at all, and they will just pirate it. Having lower prices for countries where people actually have less money probably helps cut down on piracy. If there's only 1 price allowed, then there's going to be a lot of people who simply can't afford the product.
  
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8. Re:What about the law by Lonewolf666 · 2015-05-06 05:45 · Score: 1
  
  Ending the separation of the market by country is exactly what getting rid of geoblocking is about.
  This said, it will be an "internal" EU affair as far as I understand it. There will still be geoblocking for content that crosses the outer EU borders.
  
  --
  C - the footgun of programming languages
9. Re:What about the law by Anonymous Coward · 2015-05-06 05:59 · Score: 0
  
  if you can make a profit by charging people in Greece 1 euro per movie
  while at the same time you're charging people in Germany 10 euro per movie (yeah those numbers where pulled out of my ass) ...
  then you're overcharging the folks in Germany, if they know that they'll refuse to pay the 10 euro, that's how free markets are supposed to work,
  legal shenanigans are currently blocking the market from working, and yes that needs to be fixed
  whether they'll manage to do so... we'll just have to wait and see for the actual law changes that will result from this now official goal
10. Re:What about the law by Anonymous Coward · 2015-05-06 06:11 · Score: 0
  
  Some content is illegal in some places, but not others. Hence geo, as in geography, which you are all shite at.
11. Re:What about the law by Anonymous Coward · 2015-05-06 06:22 · Score: 0
  
  American courts are much less restrictive. That doesn't make any sense.
12. Re:What about the law by RogueyWon · 2015-05-06 06:37 · Score: 1
  
  My worry is that this will be another lever for Germany to try to push its insane levels of censorship on the rest of Europe. They've tried before - they had a good push at making German games censorship (in some respects as bad as and in some respects worse than the Australian version) mandatory using the bully-pulpit of their last EU presidency, though thankfully the clock ran out on that particular attempt.
  Juncker holds his position thanks to German influence... he has debts to pay.
  In theory, I'm in favour of this measure and would like to see geoblocking ended full-stop, not just within the EU. But experience of the EU suggests that defaulting to suspicion of any new initiative is the best approach.
13. Re:What about the law by pla · 2015-05-06 06:43 · Score: 1
  
  if they know that they'll refuse to pay the 10 euro, that's how free markets are supposed to work,
  
  No they won't - What you describe exists now, and we all merrily put up with it.
  
  Hell, package forwarding from the US to Australia counts as its own niche industry designed exclusively to circumvent such BS. But while that may work for physical goods, it doesn't get around the same problem for virtual goods.
14. Re:What about the law by Anonymous Coward · 2015-05-06 08:42 · Score: 0
  
  Globalization should work both ways. Just as they are allowed to sell their product everywhere I should be able to legally purchase that same product from anywhere.
15. Re:What about the law by ewibble · 2015-05-06 10:36 · Score: 1
  
  Of course it will stop companies making more money that is why they do it. And they are much more likely to sell the content closer to the lower price because each copy costs 0 to produce.
  The question is, is it far to charge a higher price to someone just because they can afford it? How would you like it if you went into mcdonalds, and they said nice rollex, and charged you $100 per burger. Or maybe because you are white, they charged you more. What is the difference?
  No one has a right to profit and practices should be fair, if you can't succeed with fair rules, well perhaps you should fail.
16. Re:What about the law by AK+Marc · 2015-05-06 11:22 · Score: 2
  
  In a pure free market, you don't charge based on what people can pay. You charge cost plus. That's the same in Germany as Greece for something provided in Italy. It's the monopoly-thinking that gets "market-based" pricing. And yes, the market is different in different places. The more "pure" the capitalism, the more you move to cost plus, where geography is irrelevant. Since they can't ban every local monopoly, they address the cross-border effects of a local monopoly. If someone in Italy bribes and cajoles the locals for an exclusive car rental business, then they would want to charge monopoly market prices. They would want the person in Greece to buy from them, and would need to charge less for that than the higher prices they get from Germany.
  
  The EU central government can't fix the corruption in Italy, but can ban that discrimination from crossing borders. If there wasn't a monopoly, regardless of how it got there, then the competition would reduce the cost of a car to cost + 10% (or some reasonable return). That price would be the same for Greece and Germany, and would likely be lower than the old Greece price.
  
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17. Re:What about the law by AK+Marc · 2015-05-06 11:26 · Score: 1
  
  What if you are ordering a rental car in Portugal? If you go to the site from the UK, you see a price of 75 per day, but from Greece, it's 50 per day.
  
  The given examples in TFA are all physical.
  
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18. Re:What about the law by Anonymous Coward · 2015-05-06 12:33 · Score: 0
  
  The European commission is the executive arm of the European Union, and does have, when authorised by the European parliament and the council of ministers, jurisdiction over Europe. And it's not a court.
19. Re:What about the law by Anonymous Coward · 2015-05-06 12:34 · Score: 0
  
  The digital niche is filled by VPNs...
20. Re:What about the law by AmiMoJo · 2015-05-06 13:21 · Score: 1
  
  It is a geo-blocking issue. There will need to be a ban on contracts that restrict content to certain countries. Licencing will have to be for the whole EU or nothing.
  
  --
  const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
  SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
21. Re:What about the law by Hognoxious · 2015-05-06 18:46 · Score: 1
  
  then you're overcharging the folks in Germany
  No you aren't.
  
  if they know that they'll refuse to pay the 10
  
  Why? If it's worth it to them - if they can get more entertainment from it than by spending 10 EUR any other way - why would they give a shit?
  
  --
  Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
22. Re:What about the law by Hognoxious · 2015-05-06 18:59 · Score: 1
  
  In a pure free market, you don't charge based on what people can pay. You charge cost plus.
  So if I put the Mona Lisa up for auction, what do I set the reserve at? In fact, why bother with the auction, if you know what the price should be?
  I think you're confusing a free market with a perfectly competitive one.
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P...
  
  --
  Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
23. Re:What about the law by Hognoxious · 2015-05-06 19:06 · Score: 1
  
  How would you like it if you went into mcdonalds, and they said nice rollex, and charged you $100 per burger.
  Around here even burger flippers are educated enough to spot it as a fake, so they'd charge you the normal price.
  
  --
  Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
24. Re:What about the law by AK+Marc · 2015-05-06 19:34 · Score: 1
  
  So if I put the Mona Lisa up for auction, what do I set the reserve at?
  In a perfectly competitive market (I don't care which term you use, you understood what I meant, and I think they are used differently in different places/industries), you do what you do anywhere, set it at market price. If "market price" isn't cost plus, then you don't have a perfectly competitive market. Which is true for unique items. A commodity item, like a computer mouse, is cost plus. A monopoly (the only mona lisa, the only taxi medallion in an area, a telecom monopoly), cost plus wouldn't apply.
  
  Yes, I know you are being deliberately obtuse.
  
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25. Re:What about the law by stoatwblr · 2015-05-07 04:45 · Score: 1
  
  "Licencing will have to be for the whole EU or nothing"
  This runs smack into the issue that sales tax (VAT) varies in every country and must be paid by the supplier at the prevailing rate for the customer's country AND the supplier must VAT-register in each country (which is a horrendous bureaucratic nightmare)
  Many smaller suppliers locked down sales to specific countries to avoid the headaches.
26. Re:What about the law by stoatwblr · 2015-05-07 04:48 · Score: 1
  
  It's worth noting that Australia declared DVD region-coding an illegal restraint of trade for that very reason.
  Not that it stops media cartels(*) from continuing their carving up of the world into geographic distribution areas even if the countries affected declare the practice as illegal.
  (*) These exist in just about every form of media with print being the most obvious one.
27. Re:What about the law by stoatwblr · 2015-05-07 04:52 · Score: 2
  
  > How would you like it if you went into mcdonalds, and they said nice rollex, and charged you $100 per burger.
  How would you like it if you went into a McD's in Lille and paid 50% more than 20 miles away across the border in Brussels? (which is what happens at the moment)
  American posters don't get how fragmented the EU market is and life is much simpler for interstate vendors as the consumer is required to declare and pay sales tax for "exported" items.
  It shouldn't be this way, but it is.
28. Re:What about the law by stoatwblr · 2015-05-07 04:57 · Score: 1
  
  > In a pure free market, you don't charge based on what people can pay.
  Nor do you use cost-plus, that's a characteristic of a monopsomy-dominated market (where the customer dictates prices to several suppliers).
  99.9% of consumer and business goods sales (not services) are based on "what the market will bear"
  Which is not what the customer CAN pay, it's what the customer WILL pay.
  One example:
  Phone covers bought in china for US$0.75 each selling for UKP15 (about $30) in Victoria Railway Station. The same covers are UKP10 in other parts of London yet the vendor in the station does a brisk trade. People are willing to pay for the convenience of not walking around the corner, or impulse buying.
29. Re:What about the law by AmiMoJo · 2015-05-07 19:42 · Score: 1
  
  VAT is paid at the local rate for the seller.
  
  --
  const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
  SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Yeah that will work by Dunbal · 2015-05-06 04:33 · Score: 3, Interesting

Yeah this will have about as much impact as the banning of involuntary cookies had...

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Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
1. Re:Yeah that will work by Anonymous Coward · 2015-05-06 04:36 · Score: 1
  
  Do you want to store cookies? Answer no and they store a cookie that says you don't want cookies...
2. Re:Yeah that will work by Sqr(twg) · 2015-05-06 04:44 · Score: 1
  
  Answer "no" on a law-abiding website and it will ask you again every time you load a new page, because it has no way of knowing whether you already answered the question...
3. Re:Yeah that will work by Anonymous Coward · 2015-05-06 04:51 · Score: 0
  
  Spare us this crap. The Geo-blocking of services and virtual goods is illegal in the EU for the simple reason the EU operates as a single market. US companies fail to adhere to the laws of the land or the large ruleset clearly laid down, that the local corporations have no problem following. They shortcut the system to make more bucks, and then when large enough, they bribe those in power either with large "donations" or tit-for-tat stunts.
  This won't open up services beyond the members of the EU, but who gives a fuck about that, and they are trivial to bypass. Why? Because US companies are happy to take the income from those they're contractually obliged to block.
4. Re:Yeah that will work by Anonymous Coward · 2015-05-06 04:52 · Score: 0
  
  > Answer "no" on a law-abiding website and it will ask you again every time you load a new page, because it has no way of knowing whether you already answered the question...
  That's just a sad testimony to the state of the so-called web "programmers". No need for cookies or Javascript to keep such a bit of state across web transactions. Sheesh.
5. Re:Yeah that will work by Anon-Admin · 2015-05-06 04:59 · Score: 2
  
  Right, it is not like the BBC geo-blocks. I am sure everyone in the US can get to the BBC streams without issue.
  Not just US companies doing it.
6. Re:Yeah that will work by fisted · 2015-05-06 05:04 · Score: 2
  
  I'm not at all a web "programmer", so excuse my ignorance.
  How exactly would you reliably keep "such a bit of state" without cookies?
  I only see that happening by essentially putting the cookie, i.e. the session id, as a GET parameter. I hope that's not what you're thinking about because that's even more horrible than using a cookie.
  
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7. Re:Yeah that will work by teg · 2015-05-06 05:11 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  I'm not at all a web "programmer", so excuse my ignorance. How exactly would you reliably keep "such a bit of state" without cookies? I only see that happening by essentially putting the cookie, i.e. the session id, as a GET parameter. I hope that's not what you're thinking about because that's even more horrible than using a cookie.
  You could add a parameter to the URL, specifying no cookies.
8. Re:Yeah that will work by Dunbal · 2015-05-06 05:12 · Score: 1
  
  I can vouch for this, living in one of those regions that GP says "who gives a fuck about that". Which is about as much as I care for his comment. Region blocking is ridiculous, but just because the EU wants to spend (more) money to make a(nother) useless law it can't enforce doesn't mean I think they're on the right track. It's the idiots with the distribution network who let themselves be bullied into going along with these schemes that need to wake up and realize they are literally shutting themselves out of markets and profits.
  
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  Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
9. Re:Yeah that will work by sims+2 · 2015-05-06 05:12 · Score: 1
  
  I see websites all the time now that say "This website uses cookies" and i wonder what dolt decided to ban them its a browser setting you can turn them off if your ok with not being able to stay logged in anywhere but requiring webites to tell you they use cookies is silly i can check chrome and see that for this page i have 7 cookies from /. and 11 from other places i think i can safely conclude that /. might possibly use cookies
  
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10. Re:Yeah that will work by TheGratefulNet · 2015-05-06 05:58 · Score: 1
  
  you encode 'state' on the url!
  I thought everyone knew this. its like a 'udp' style, in a way. each url is complete and stateful. works great!
  with RESTful apis being so trendy, cookies are often JUST use for authentication. each url is fully complete and describes entirely what is asked of the REST service.
  
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11. Re:Yeah that will work by Anonymous Coward · 2015-05-06 06:04 · Score: 1
  
  You are not paying attention.
  
  US service providers block content to EU consumers because the EU has way too many expensive rules.
  
  Companies are in it to make money, and if the EU says "you can't make money here" then outside companies won't provide their services there. How is this not super simple?
  
  Exhibit A: the right to be forgotten. If a company has to be able to erase anyone's data at any given point, there's less profit there. At some point it doesn't make sense for certain companies to do business with the EU. The EU should just accept this as a result of their policy.
  
  The companies that don't get it anyway and sell to the EU (like Apple) will have to mark up the stuff way high ($200 more for iPads in the EU). And then the EU people will complain about it because they don't understand their mandatory 3 year warranties and whatever costs a lot of money. But that is what their leaders decided for them.
12. Re:Yeah that will work by Richard_at_work · 2015-05-06 06:22 · Score: 1
  
  Which is a fucking nightmare the moment your user posts a link to something on Twitter which includes his session id in the URL...
13. Re:Yeah that will work by fisted · 2015-05-06 06:55 · Score: 1
  
  I only see that happening by essentially putting the cookie, i.e. the session id, as a GET parameter. I hope that's not what you're thinking about because that's even more horrible than using a cookie.
  You could add a parameter to the URL, specifying no cookies.
  Yes. As said in the post you were replying to, that's even more horrible.
  
  --
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14. Re:Yeah that will work by fisted · 2015-05-06 07:00 · Score: 1
  
  So you mean, after answering http://example.com/'s cookie question with 'no', it would rewrite all links to, say http://example.com/nocookies/, which behaves identical except not asking for a cookie? Fair enough, then.
  If on the other hand you mean encoding a session ID in the url, which this:
  
  cookies are often JUST use for authentication. each url is fully complete and describes entirely what is asked of the REST service
  seems to imply (does it? if not, how tell different users apart?) then the answer is no, that's not a good idea and already addressed in (my) GP comment
  
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15. Re:Yeah that will work by truedfx · 2015-05-06 08:15 · Score: 1
  
  You could use HTML5 local storage. Unlike cookies, the local storage is not sent to the server, so client-side JavaScript can use it to disable cookie banners in a way that isn't subject to those anti-tracking laws that prompted the cookie banners. Depending on the country, perhaps.
16. Re:Yeah that will work by Anonymous Coward · 2015-05-06 09:22 · Score: 0
  
  EU people complain when Apple doesn't deliver the mandatory 2 year warranty. We don't know about higher prices, we do know that many people had problems getting their devices repaired when it stopped working after 1 year and 1 month. 2 year warranty is a good thing, it protects both consumers and well meaning companies. It can protect companies that sell high quality products at the cost of a higher price. If a cheap manufacturer offers products that have a 50% chance to break before 2 years of usage, they will have to increase prices to make up for the loss, which means that those products are no longer a lot cheaper. This raises the overall quality of products on the market. Unfortunately for a too long time nothing was done about the cheap devices that broke early but did not give warranty. Many companies went out of business because they couldn't compete against 100% cheaper but 500% more likely to break (consumers often only look at price and not at long term things like will it last at least 2 years).
17. Re: Yeah that will work by Anonymous Coward · 2015-05-06 10:48 · Score: 0
  
  JavaScript fingerprint+IP address is highly unique and much harder for users to "turn off". Cookies are mostly old school, now, except 3rd party cookies--those are pretty evil.
18. Re:Yeah that will work by Anonymous Coward · 2015-05-06 12:37 · Score: 0
  
  Most websites don't let you answer no... many pop up a box that only has "yes", in some case blocks important functions from the pages and, sometimes, says "by using this website you consent to cookies". An utterly pointless piece of legislation, if ever I saw one.
19. Re: Yeah that will work by Anonymous Coward · 2015-05-06 12:47 · Score: 0
  
  Javascript isn't hard to turn off. It makes firefox eat so much less CPU, too.
20. Re:Yeah that will work by Anonymous Coward · 2015-05-06 18:14 · Score: 0
  
  I've bookmarked this post. Every time you say something idiotic, I'll post a link to it.
21. Re:Yeah that will work by jabuzz · 2015-05-06 22:09 · Score: 1
  
  Rubbish, for example if you live in France you have no way of legally paying for BBC television programs and therefore no legal right of access to iPlayer. Get over it.
The best way to do it, if they are serious by fustakrakich · 2015-05-06 04:37 · Score: 2

Put up free public anonymous proxy servers.

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1. Re:The best way to do it, if they are serious by Anonymous Coward · 2015-05-06 04:53 · Score: 0
  
  Cat and mouse. They'll find and blacklist the proxies.
Youtube in Germany by Calydor · 2015-05-06 04:46 · Score: 5, Interesting

Will this include having Germany unblock Youtube?
Currently, ANYTHING on Youtube involving music is blocked because GEMA (the German equivalent of RIAA) can't reach an agreement with Google. The end result is that all those videos out there where people play a bit of background music are effectively banned from being seen in Germany.
For more information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B...
An interesting excerpt for those too lazy to click on links:

A study sponsored by the video hosting website MyVideo estimated that 61.5% of the 1000 most viewed YouTube clips are blocked in Germany. This is significantly higher than, for example, in the United States (0.9%) or in Switzerland (>1%).[7]

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1. Re:Youtube in Germany by TWX · 2015-05-06 04:56 · Score: 1
  
  Since the end user does not pay for Youtube video, probably not.
  
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2. Re:Youtube in Germany by houghi · 2015-05-06 05:47 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  It would either be "We block it everywhere in Europe" or "We block it nowhere". Remember that it wasn't Gernany who woke up one day and said" Let's block some video's. It was brought to court and the courts decided that this is what the law required.
  So this would mean a change of law.
  More interesting would be to see how this will affect (neo-)nazi content in Germany that they see as yelling fire in a movie-theater.
  (And this is not aboutif that is right or wrong.)
  
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3. Re:Youtube in Germany by Anonymous Coward · 2015-05-06 08:29 · Score: 1
  
  That's indeed answered. Point 6 specifically mentions "harmonisation efforts" which is EU speak for overruling away national legislation. It also speaks about "looking at online intermediaries" which is isn't going to be a favorable look. There's also a new antitrust competition inquiry which may very well encompass GEMA.
  The EU as an organisation really, really dislikes players who interfere with the EU internal market. The internal market is the most liked part of the EU; unrestricted migration and the euro in comparison are deeply hated. So the EU isn't going to go easy on that bit.
  Practically speaking, the most likely effort is that the GEMA will be bypassed. GEMA will get a Europe-wide competitor which will be allowed to make EU-wide copyright deals including Germany. Google won't negotiate for 28 licenses, but instead buy one. GEMA might still have the right to sell licenses for Germany only, but that's going to be mostly for restaurants and the likes.
4. Re:Youtube in Germany by AmiMoJo · 2015-05-06 13:17 · Score: 1
  
  It won't affect content that is illegal in one county. It only affects licencing agreements that limit content or prices to one county.
  For example, Apple were criticised for having different prices in different country's iTunes stores. In the common market we are supposed to be able to buy from any EU country, but Apple geo-blocks to prevent that.
  Even with that restriction removed, Apple would still have to block sales of material that is illegal in some counties, such as games with Nazi imagery in Germany.
  
  --
  const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
  SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
5. Re:Youtube in Germany by stoatwblr · 2015-05-07 05:03 · Score: 1
  
  "Currently, ANYTHING on Youtube involving music is blocked because GEMA (the German equivalent of RIAA) can't reach an agreement with Google. "
  This is no different to the issues involving newspapers.
  Google is perfectly entitled to say "OK, whatever. We're not covering this market as they did with newspapers. The difference is that GEMA don't care that it substantially impacts their bottom line in a negative sense because they're ideologically driven and isolated from the economic realities of the member companies.
6. Re:Youtube in Germany by stoatwblr · 2015-05-07 05:09 · Score: 2
  
  "In the common market we are supposed to be able to buy from any EU country"
  I've run into a large number of vendors who claim to have "exclusive distribution rights for XYZ country" and threaten legal action when I tell them I'm purchasing from elsewhere in the EU for substantially less than what they want to charge.
  None of them have ever followed through once I've pointed out that "exclusive supply agreements" amount to illegal restraint of trade across the single market, although one attempted to bluster that he'd have the "USA supplier" refuse to supply the german retailer. I pointed out that should he do that, the result would be that he'd find himself facing criminal charges, jail time, unlimited fines and a possible import ban across the EU on the manufacturer concerned.
  Geographic restrictions in the EU are currently only legal on media (for "cultural reasons") and it's heavily exploited by the multinationals (for maximum profit, not culture). The anomaly has become more and more glaringly obvious with the homogenisation of EU cultures, widespread internal migration and the advent of Internet sales/distribution.
Seeing is believing by Opportunist · 2015-05-06 04:47 · Score: 1

Before I believe anything being done like that by the EU (and Juncker, of all of them), I want to see this being cast into a EU regulation and then I want to see them breathing down every country's neck to turn it into laws. Just like they do with all the anti-consumer laws they invent.
And then I might ponder thinking about just what loophole they left open and what agenda this should actually serve.

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We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
1. Re:Seeing is believing by Tx · 2015-05-06 05:08 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  The loophole is right there in the article;
  Among other things the Commission plans “to end unjustified geo-blocking,” which it describes as “a discriminatory practice used for commercial reasons.”
  We only have to wait to find out what kind of geo-blocking is classed as "justified", but I'd bet on most of the kinds that really cause problems for people.
  
  --
  Oh no... it's the future.
2. Re:Seeing is believing by Anonymous Coward · 2015-05-06 08:29 · Score: 0
  
  I'd bet on most of the kinds that really cause problems for people.
  Hm. I think you misspelled "all" in the above.
3. Re:Seeing is believing by AmiMoJo · 2015-05-06 17:04 · Score: 1
  
  Of you read the full quote it's clear he means that geo-blocking is unjustified, not that some of it might be justifiable.
  The principal in the Common Market is that goods and services flow freely between member states. Trying to subvert that is not acceptable.
  
  --
  const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
  SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
This will never work by Anonymous Coward · 2015-05-06 04:48 · Score: 3, Informative

Two big reasons geo-blocking exists: to take advantage of currency arbitrage and mandatory copyright licensing. GEMA managed to get Youtube videos with any music in them banned in Germany simply by requiring a ridiculous amount of money in per-viewing fees.
1. Re:This will never work by Anonymous Coward · 2015-05-06 05:02 · Score: 0
  
  dont forget companies in different countries negotiate exclusive distribution agreements for their own country. so there may be 10-15+ different agreements covering europe for one thing (e.g. a first-run american television series for broadcast, a feature film on home video, etc). how are they possibly going to simplify that down to a single agreement that covers the entire e.u.? a spanish company won't give a shit about anything outside of spain, similarly for every language (not necessarily country because some share a language with others) of europe.. so i estimate that in order for this to happen, english will be adopted as the one and only language in europe first.. and since the french would never go for that (unless of course, it was french that was chosen to be the one and only language, but then the germans and others would throw a tantrum instead), then this idea won't happen either.
2. Re:This will never work by Anonymous Coward · 2015-05-06 06:04 · Score: 0
  
  As far as the French are concerned about the English language being used EU-wide, they have no leg to stand on, as consumers can choose what language to use without restriction, regardless of what the EU officials and institutions use. They just can't come and throw you in jail for speaking English or watching an English film, no matter how hard that idea gets them.
3. Re:This will never work by tepples · 2015-05-06 06:31 · Score: 1
  
  a spanish company won't give a shit about anything outside of spain
  Under this initiative, the Spanish firm would just have to grant an EU-wide license to the Catalan and Spanish language translations of a work.
Re:Populist Tripe by Anonymous Coward · 2015-05-06 04:49 · Score: 0

EU politics is NOT like US politics. In Europe, the government fears the people. In the USA, the people fear the government.
You know nothing about the world.
Re:Populist Tripe by fustakrakich · 2015-05-06 04:50 · Score: 1

Populist Tripe
Yes, I'm afraid that is true
If they truly want to end geoblocking...
They will legalize circumvention by whatever means available.

--
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
It's about content in EUROPE.. Not whole world by QuantumReality · 2015-05-06 04:50 · Score: 3, Insightful

Example Netflix, have different movies and tv series across countries in EU, because of the agreements with content owners. So for example i can't watch content from Netflix in EU country A because i live i country B. From now on i will be able to get all the content in EU.
1. Re:It's about content in EUROPE.. Not whole world by aaron4801 · 2015-05-06 05:08 · Score: 1
  
  Except in reality, this likely means that you will only get access to the subset of content that has been negotiated in ALL EU member countries individually.
  Example, French Movie Studio has released their film in France, the theater run is up, and revenues are dropping off, so they license it to Netflix France to get more eyeballs/money. They were planning on releasing it in Italy once it built up some more word-of-mouth, so it's not licensed to Netflix Italy. Now, with no geo-blocking, is it more likely that Netflix gets to show it in Italy, or that it DOESN'T get to show it in France?
2. Re:It's about content in EUROPE.. Not whole world by Anonymous Coward · 2015-05-06 05:28 · Score: 0
  
  Given Italy, it's more likely that everyone in Italy who wanted to see it already has torrented it. Making stuff available for cheap from the top, is the best way to make sure it's not made available for free from the bottom.
3. Re:It's about content in EUROPE.. Not whole world by Lonewolf666 · 2015-05-06 05:31 · Score: 1
  
  I think French Movie Studio will likely license their movie to Netflix Europe (having separate licenses per country will make no more sense) once the theater run is up. And Netflix Europe will "lend" it everywhere in Europe.
  After all, at this point it is a choice between getting no more revenue or some revenue.
  
  --
  C - the footgun of programming languages
4. Re:It's about content in EUROPE.. Not whole world by Luckyo · 2015-05-06 05:33 · Score: 2
  
  Typically EU rules in cases like these have harmonized the common market by making it illegal to attempt to block these sales on commercial grounds. For example someone ordering the product from another common market member country cannot be blocked for commercial reasons from making the purchase on grounds of "this is a different country and therefore different market for which we want different rules (i.e. price) enforced".
  You may obviously charge different sum for delivery in case of physical items with different countries inside common market area, but with digital items this would land you in court for obvious reasons.
5. Re:It's about content in EUROPE.. Not whole world by Anonymous Coward · 2015-05-06 08:26 · Score: 0
  
  The opposite is true. Individual countries may have constrained content selection, either because of their limited market or lack of negotiation power. EU as a whole is the single biggest market in the world so it is unlikely content providers will refuse to cater to it.
  Besides, this is mostly directed at removing barriers to the internal trade. Geo-blocking is highly contagious mechanism, it is like having 25 incompatible OSS licenses. The result is a tangled mess of dependencies, where you are either not allowed to exchange/trade any content or are forced to use geo-blocking in every market.
6. Re:It's about content in EUROPE.. Not whole world by squiggleslash · 2015-05-07 04:02 · Score: 1
  
  Now, with no geo-blocking, is it more likely that Netflix gets to show it in Italy, or that it DOESN'T get to show it in France?
  
  Both.
  In the short term, Netflix doesn't have a license for Italy, cannot distribute content to both countries as required by law, and so stops.
  But from then on, all licenses are negotiated as EU-wide licenses. Every. Single. One. Because there's literally no point in negotiating a license for "Just France". So in the medium term (not even the long term, because Netflix has to get new licenses and can't operate without them, and the studios have to negotiate because they don't get money any more from Netflix) they end up with EU licenses instead.
  Bonus: no more situations where license rights are held up by a single party that simply can't get its act in order in one country even though the same content is available elsewhere.
  
  --
  You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
I'd pay by maxwells+daemon · 2015-05-06 04:53 · Score: 1

the BBC for their Olympics coverage (and other stuff). Proxying in works but is not kosher. On the BBC I feel I am watching sport, not entertainment. Not so with NBC, etc.
1. Re:I'd pay by TWX · 2015-05-06 04:57 · Score: 1
  
  You don't think that the Olympics should be celebrated with the Theme to the Adventures of Brisco County, Jr.?
  
  --
  Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
2. Re:I'd pay by Anonymous Coward · 2015-05-06 06:02 · Score: 0
  
  I'd pay for other BBC content and some European shows that I can't get in the US. I'm not sure why they restrict them.
3. Re:I'd pay by mindwhip · 2015-05-06 07:26 · Score: 1
  
  Because the BBC is a UK public service to provide TV to the UK. To do that to their best abilities they sell content to other countries/broadcasters around the world as the TV licence funding would not cover making all the programs they currently do and then just giving them to the entire world. If the BBC can't sell a program to any of the broadcasters in specific country because the broadcaster doesn't want to give it airtime there is not a lot they can do about that.
  As far as sports coverage etc. The region restrictions are not something the BBC does off its own back but something that is imposed on them by the Events as the Event wants to sell rights for more money to countries where the broadcaster charges per subscription. If the BBC has to provide unrestricted access to the whole of Europe at the price the UK viewer pays (iPlayer is essentially a free service, paid for indirectly) they will in fact have to cover fewer events and they possibly won't be able to continue their iplayer service at all.
  
  --
  [The Universe] has gone offline.
4. Re:I'd pay by Harlequin80 · 2015-05-06 14:29 · Score: 1
  
  Yes and no. Yes if they make no changes to the iPlayer service. However what is much more likely to happen is that you will need to log in to iPlayer instead of just being able to access it with nothing but the geo-block.
  You want access to the iPlayer server? Please type in the receipt code for your TV license please. If you do not have a UK Tv license but live in the EU and would like to access iPlayer please purchase a subscription over here.
5. Re:I'd pay by stoatwblr · 2015-05-07 05:13 · Score: 1
  
  "If the BBC has to provide unrestricted access to the whole of Europe at the price the UK viewer pays"
  If the fees go too high, media will simply withdraw from covering the events. It's happened before and it's never worked out well for those trying to dictate the pricing.
God damnit by Anonymous Coward · 2015-05-06 04:55 · Score: 5, Interesting

Well, we're screwed.
If the EU bans geoblocking, media corporations will push for unified copyright law in the EU as well - after all, it only makes sense, right? You can't force them to abide by every country's individual law, that's just unreasonable...
Now, I'm from the Czech Republic. Our copyright law has a lot of problems, but generally it's better than in the "west" - we don't have insane shit like the "three strikes" shit in France where you get literally kicked out of the entire internet for being *accused* three times of "piracy", no court, little or no recourse... this doesn't happen here, because we're a small and relatively poor market so it's not worth it to bribe our lawmakers.
With geoblocking forbidden and unified anti-piracy laws pushed on the entire EU, we'll get the combination of the absolute worst, most anti-consumer "anti-piracy" measures from all corners of the world. The corporations will only need to pay off a few politicians in Brussels, instead of having to do it separately in each country, and we'll all suffer as a consequence.
I'll gladly give up the ability to watch some shitty shows etc. on the Internet if it means I can continue to live in a comparatively free country. I mean, with the current local legislature, if I *do* want to watch a show that's inaccessible here, I can just legally pirate it... but soon I won't be able to. All that will be left to protect my freedom will be the local police's incompetence and indifference.
1. Re:God damnit by Anonymous Coward · 2015-05-06 05:05 · Score: 0
  
  Even better it means that media companies are going to be limited by European standards. For example, American companies that have any kind of Nazi materials will be required to meet strict European standards. I do not want to have to live in a world censored by considerations for the maximal sense of "decency" from around the world. In the end that will essentially mean nothing is permitted that might offend anybody. Dear Leader will be proud.
2. Re:God damnit by Luckyo · 2015-05-06 05:34 · Score: 1
  
  That has already been done in the copyright directive that was pushed through the European Parliament and implemented into law in all member countries many years ago.
3. Re:God damnit by Anonymous Coward · 2015-05-06 05:58 · Score: 0
  
  I'm not sure what you mean. Is this the directive? http://ec.europa.eu/internal_market/copyright/copyright-infso/index_en.htm#maincontentSec1
  If this is what you mean, then I don't think you're correct. I'm absolutely certain that I can legally download audio, video and text works (no software though) - only download, not upload, so no torrents, but a HTTP download is perfectly legal. It also didn't implement any kind of three strikes law or any mechanism that would allow the government to take away my internet access; this might be in some way possible on a court order, but I really don't think it has ever happened.
4. Re:God damnit by Luckyo · 2015-05-06 10:51 · Score: 2
  
  Correct. Like all EU directives, it sets the common limits and each country decides how to implement the directive within the limits of the directive.
  However the fact remains that copyright directive that synchronised copyright laws has already been passed and implemented in member state legislatures. The problem presented by OP does not exist.
EU Common Market by antiperimetaparalogo · 2015-05-06 05:17 · Score: 2

The European Union is firstly and above other things a common market - we, Europeans of the Union, agreed to that before any other type of unification (other types -e.g. monetary- which not all members of the union accept yet, and may never accept). While EU is very problematic for many reasons (not only economical... as many would think i mean because i am a Greek!), its common market concept is the least problematic (and the least negative in the eyes of its citizens). Geo-blocking inside EU is against the common market concept, so it is good that we will get rid of it. But is that means that we Greeks could watch some great football matches from England, Spain, Germany, Italy, etc? I highly doubt that nationall content providers among the EU members will agree so easily to provide their valuable products (e.g., football) to every member. Because if it is only for stupid things like Eurovision... well, we get that already, we commentary in Greek (so no need for any barbarian).

--
Antisthenes: "Wisdom begins by examining the words/names." - excuse my English, i am (slightly...) better with my Greek!
1. Re:EU Common Market by Anonymous Coward · 2015-05-06 06:33 · Score: 2, Funny
  
  You're not Greek by any chance, are you? Don't know what made me think that.
2. Re:EU Common Market by im_thatoneguy · 2015-05-06 06:54 · Score: 2
  
  There are practical considerations though. Currently if you release a film you can get a german distributor a french distributor a british distributor and a spanish distributor. Each country's distributor is responsible for marketing as well as selling the product. So who would get the royalties in this instance? While the EU is a common market if you go to France a BMW will not cost the same as it costs in Germany.
  My prediction is that this will go nowhere. It sounds great in theory to say that you should sell a movie download of The Avengers in Spain for the same price as The Avengers in Germany but The Avengers is really being resold. It would be like you expecting every supermarket in Europe to sell milk for the same price! "It's all milk! I should be able to buy milk for 2 Euros in Germany or 2 Euros in Greece!"
  If anything they'll simply remove geo blocking for content you already managed to purchase. So if you buy a film in Germany you'll be able to still watch it in France. But that's not I believe what most people are hoping this to accomplish.
3. Re:EU Common Market by antiperimetaparalogo · 2015-05-06 08:00 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, you are right, my prediction (even if i support the idea) is also that this will go nowhere. Excluding the income differences important for marketing, in the case of your film example the language barriers that must be bridged with a cost, with the car example it is like demanding countries like mine (Greece) to abolish the (so important for the state's revenue) special tax imposed on every car sale.
  
  It would be like you expecting every supermarket in Europe to sell milk for the same price! "It's all milk! I should be able to buy milk for 2 Euros in Germany or 2 Euros in Greece!"
  This "milk thing" is one of the most used argument in Greece (maybe in the opposite way of what you may expect). Cows need the northern climate to produce milk economically, i.e., Germany's cow milk will alway be cheaper than Greece's. In Greece many use this specific product to argue that milk is very expensive in comparison to Germany, so... EU is bad for Greece! Not to mention that we do "tricks" (e.g., what is defined as "fresh milk", or "long preserved") that makes importing milk from Germany impossible, just to "protect" our cow milk producers (in the same time we want our products to freely move inside EU... o.k., it's not only us Greeks that play this "game", but still it makes me angry that we don't respect the rules of a common market.)
  
  --
  Antisthenes: "Wisdom begins by examining the words/names." - excuse my English, i am (slightly...) better with my Greek!
4. Re:EU Common Market by antiperimetaparalogo · 2015-05-06 09:13 · Score: 1
  
  You're not Greek by any chance, are you? Don't know what made me think that.
  I already wrote that i am a Greek, you are slipping...
  Next time use your "/." account, you don't want people to think that you are a coward!
  
  --
  Antisthenes: "Wisdom begins by examining the words/names." - excuse my English, i am (slightly...) better with my Greek!
5. Re:EU Common Market by peragrin · 2015-05-06 11:44 · Score: 1
  
  A BMW sells for a different price in California than Michigan. You can go to Michigan and pay a different price and transport it yourself, or just buy it locally. This is done all the time in the USA. Different states having different prices. What is so special about Europe dealing with it?
  This isnt a big deal. You then have to pay again to reregister it in your jurisdiction.
  
  --
  i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
6. Re:EU Common Market by harryjohnston · 2015-05-06 11:58 · Score: 1
  
  There's no *inherent* problem - the EU could (and, IMO, should) simply forbid licensing on a per-nation basis. So either you deal with a distributor that can cover all of the EU, or you give each of the distributors the rights for all of the EU and let them compete.
  Whether this is likely to happen is another question.
  (Ideally, international law would prohibit per-nation licensing worldwide, but that's even less likely.)
Re:Populist Tripe by Dredd13 · 2015-05-06 05:25 · Score: 1

Which is why it keeps them disarmed. :-)
Re:Populist Tripe by Anonymous Coward · 2015-05-06 05:40 · Score: 0, Funny

In Europe the government does not fear the people. In Europe the people must do what the European Commission tells them to do. No threats are needed, Europeans are used to be led and they love to follow a leader. It's their nature.
What's the canonical URL? by tepples · 2015-05-06 06:29 · Score: 1

you encode 'state' on the url!
So which URL for a given resource is canonical to be listed in indexes and shared with other users of the Internet: the one with or without cookies? Your answer to this will help me phrase my next question.

with RESTful apis being so trendy, cookies are often JUST use for authentication.
OAuth 2 uses bearer tokens, which behave like cookies. Is OAuth 2 considered "RESTful"?
It will work by pavon · 2015-05-06 06:32 · Score: 1

The whole point of this is that they are planning to mandate that per-country licensing is illegal in the EU. The same way that the EU is a single market when it comes to physical goods, it will be a single market for copyright as well.
1. Re:It will work by CrimsonAvenger · 2015-05-06 07:10 · Score: 1
  
  So they're going to settle on the most restrictive member nation's copyright rules?
  Or require every nation but one to change their copyright laws? Yeah, that'll be interesting.
  
  --
  
  "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
When royalties drop to zero by tepples · 2015-05-06 06:35 · Score: 1

Except in reality, this likely means that you will only get access to the subset of content that has been negotiated in ALL EU member countries individually.
Then anything not negotiated for the entire EU market will disappear from the EU view of the service. The publisher will get zero hits and thus zero royalties. If the publisher wants to continue collecting royalties from the service, it will have to negotiate with the service for the rest of the EU market.
Hilarious by IamTheRealMike · 2015-05-06 06:41 · Score: 1

Dear EU,
Please fix your shiny new VAT laws that require people to fill out 70+ tax returns to sell across Europe first. Then maybe you can lecture the internet on how to build single markets.
1. Re:Hilarious by Anonymous Coward · 2015-05-06 09:39 · Score: 0
  
  8. to reduce the administrative burden businesses face from different VAT regimes: so that sellers of physical goods to other countries also benefit from single electronic registration and payment; and with a common VAT threshold to help smaller start-ups selling online.
Will I get currently geo-blocked BBC stuff in USA by Sebby · 2015-05-06 07:38 · Score: 1

So, that means all the UK stuff that I can't watch here will become available then?

--

AC comments get piped to /dev/null
Re:Populist Tripe by Anonymous Coward · 2015-05-06 07:58 · Score: 0

GP here. Yeah, yeah, bullshit. Who controls the people, give you a hint, the answer is "media cartels". The reason you think that the people in the USA fear the government is because the media cartels tell you that. The reason you believe that your government fears the people, again, is because that's the most profitable message to send to you.
What they can start with... by Anonymous Coward · 2015-05-06 08:12 · Score: 0

Before working on un-geoblocking, maybe they could start with their own website. Two suggestions to start -- ALT text on the screenshots, and make the screenshots open the PDF, rather than having to look at the bottom of the the page.
Other types of geo-blocking by Wowsers · 2015-05-06 09:24 · Score: 1

Why won't the Europeans make it illegal to have region coding for DVD's and BluRay and computer games? This is just a PR stunt by the EU to pretend to people they are relevant to their lives

--
Take Nobody's Word For It.
1. Re:Other types of geo-blocking by harryjohnston · 2015-05-06 12:01 · Score: 1
  
  Are there different region codes within the EU? At first glance, at least, it looks like code 2 covers all of Europe, including the UK.
Re:Will I get currently geo-blocked BBC stuff in U by OhPlz · 2015-05-06 09:25 · Score: 2

Right after the US joins the EU.