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What To Say When the Police Tell You To Stop Filming Them
HughPickens.com writes: Robinson Meyer writes in The Atlantic that first of all, police shouldn't ask. "As a basic principle, we can't tell you to stop recording," says Delroy Burton, a 21-year veteran of DC's police force. "If you're standing across the street videotaping, and I'm in a public place, carrying out my public functions, [then] I'm subject to recording, and there's nothing legally the police officer can do to stop you from recording." What you don't have a right to do is interfere with an officer's work. ""Police officers may legitimately order citizens to cease activities that are truly interfering with legitimate law enforcement operations," according to Jay Stanley who wrote the ACLU's "Know Your Rights" guide for photographers, which lays out in plain language the legal protections that are assured people filming in public. Police officers may not confiscate or demand to view your digital photographs or video without a warrant and police may not delete your photographs or video under any circumstances.
What if an officer says you are interfering with legitimate law enforcement operations and you disagree with the officer? "If it were me, and an officer came up and said, 'You need to turn that camera off, sir,' I would strive to calmly and politely yet firmly remind the officer of my rights while continuing to record the interaction, and not turn the camera off," says Stanley. The ACLU guide also supplies the one question those stopped for taking photos or video may ask an officer: "The right question to ask is, 'am I free to go?' If the officer says no, then you are being detained, something that under the law an officer cannot do without reasonable suspicion that you have or are about to commit a crime or are in the process of doing so. Until you ask to leave, your being stopped is considered voluntary under the law and is legal."
What if an officer says you are interfering with legitimate law enforcement operations and you disagree with the officer? "If it were me, and an officer came up and said, 'You need to turn that camera off, sir,' I would strive to calmly and politely yet firmly remind the officer of my rights while continuing to record the interaction, and not turn the camera off," says Stanley. The ACLU guide also supplies the one question those stopped for taking photos or video may ask an officer: "The right question to ask is, 'am I free to go?' If the officer says no, then you are being detained, something that under the law an officer cannot do without reasonable suspicion that you have or are about to commit a crime or are in the process of doing so. Until you ask to leave, your being stopped is considered voluntary under the law and is legal."
Right, the biggest risk to you to keep filming is that you spend a few nights in jail, hurt your career, hire a lawyer, spend a few days over the next who knows how many months or years in court, etc.
Their biggest risk if they deny you your rights is some paid administrative leave while the department investigates.
Yes it's an anecdote! Were you expecting original research in a Slashdot comment?
Don't forget that after the camera is off and nobody is watching you will resist arrest, get physically assaulted and tazed because you know you resisted. In the end resisting arrest will stick and see it was all justified.
Cops need body camera's and a hard and fast law that anything not captured on body camera the cop can not testify to. Were past the time where we need to or should trust the cops word as to visible facts, technology is capable of giving an impartial viewpoint.
No sir I dont like it.
Freedom isn't free. If you don't stand up for your rights, you'll have them trampled on. Every citizen with a video camera is a bad cop's worst nightmare.
You dont have to completely leave, but it gives you the ability to walk away from the officer without the claim of resisting.
When you cant win, ad hominem.
Ya'll watch too much TV. If you want to see what a police officer does then ask to do a full shift ride-along. It's rather eye opening.
The negative focus on officers is 99.9% wrong. If you want laws changed then vote for different politicians.
Many have family to support or career to preserve, or both.
Yes, that is how tyranny flourishes. Keep everybody fed just well enough...
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
But. In exchange for the lack of personal inconvenience your compliance ensures, your rights die just a tiny bit.
I understand the wisdom of not getting cross with the leos, and admit there are immediate and everlasting benefits, but know there are consequences as well.
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.
Ernest Hemingway
Of course, if you get the camera slapped out of your hand while being tazed and the officer then claims you assaulted him who's gonna film it?
Just how many cops have behaved inappropriately and have remained on the force. How many messed up or plainly did wrong and are still earning your tax dollar?
Idealistic talk is nice...facts on the ground is another thing.
Land of the free...yeah right.
A 'singular oddity' is an event that cannot be explained and only happens when you are alone.
Free to go does not mean required to go. Expectations are irrelevant.
Well, I think ONE thing is pretty clear.
Don't RUN from the cops. The one common denominator from most of the recently publicized cop shootings of citizens, is that the citizen generally ran from the officer.
But one thing to do for sure...don't act like an ass, if you are (and you should) exerting your rights, do so in a calm, non-threatening fashion. Don't shout. Don't curse, use clear concise language. The "Am I free to go" statement is a very simple and very powerful thing to say and get an answer to.
If you don't give them a reason to beat you...99.999% of the time they are not. Yes, there are bad apples, but I don't think that is the majority. If you do not fight, resist, run or act an ass, chances are you are not going to be arrested or hurt. And if they DO arrest you....just face it, you are going to jail...don't resist, doing so give the cops a LOT of leeway in how they manhandle you.
Don't give them a reason to do abuse you, but also, you should always know and assert your rights.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
You go be the hero then. I've got a wife and kids who aren't going to accept "Daddy did something heroic" as an excuse when I lose my job and we're living in a van down by the river. Is the ACLU going to pay my mortgage when I have to call into work and explain to them that I can't come in because I'm in jail?
SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
Maybe because laws aren't the issue, police department policies (that we don't get to vote for) are. For example, the policy of refusing to hire people who score "too high" on aptitude tests, as evidenced by Jordan v New London. That's just the part of the iceburg we can see.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
Remember, Freddie Gray was stopped by police, who later killed him just for eyeballing them.
If you want to play on-the-spot eyewitness news reporter with your cell phone, you should try your best to have white skin.
You are welcome on my lawn.
I think that question says "are you embarking on legal proceeding against me, or are you just flapping your gums?".
If the officer isn't detaining you, he's not doing anything other than speaking to you and you can walk away from him, or just stand there.
That, of course, assumes the police officer knows or cares what that is supposed to mean ... just like the officer obviously neither knows nor cares about the fact that you can legally film him in the first place.
The problem becomes when police don't give a fuck about the law, attempt to illegally detain you, and then when you say "what the hell are you doing?" they charge you with resisting arrest, despite that you weren't being arrested.
In theory this says "unless you are arresting me, this is a voluntary interaction which I am ending".
In practice, I'm not convinced all the police know or care about these things, because they believe they can do whatever they wish.
And it's those police officers who are causing us to say "fuck it, I can't tell the difference between the good ones and the bad ones, so put a body camera on them at all times and stop trusting them at their word". And I'm sorry to the good police who feel all butt hurt over this, but too damned bad.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
The solution is simple:
Pass the following laws: 1) Prosecutors can not prosecute or even investigate accusations of legal crimes by police that they may in the future have to work with. Instead, each state should set up an "Internal Affairs Office of Prosecution", whose sole job is to prosecute police and similar law enforcement officers. They will be judged on how many convictions they get, and only the best will be allowed to become managers.
2) After rule #1 has been in place for at least 5 years, require every one appointed to be a Judge to have previously successfully prosecuted at least one police officer.
This system attempts to counter the natural prejudice prosecutors and judges have in favor of the police while at the same time creates a strong motivation within the government to prosecute their own.
excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
When an officer of the law (which implies "officer of the law-courts") tells you to do something you, as a citizen under the law, must comply.
If you do not comply, then the officer has the right and obligation to clear you from the area by whatever means necessary.
So, if an officer tells me to cluck like a chicken, I must do it or face arrest? I'm not sure that's right.
Please don't bring that weak-ass "I have rights" crap to court because even your lawyer will want to smack you. The American Public has rights, an individual citizen has no rights.
I'm not sure that's right either.
"What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
It's fun to pretend that we have a police racism issue, but it's really a general police brutality issue. It's just that the most vocal communities are focused on people who look like them. So far, none of the black men who were recently abused by the police were trying to film them, so I think your allegation is off topic.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
Yes, there are bad apples, but I don't think that is the majority.
I think you misunderstand the "bad apple" metaphor. It's important to note the entire phrase or it makes zero sense: One bad apple spoils the bushel. What this means is that if you allow a minor corruption to go unchecked, it will eventually corrupt all of the apples in the bushel. One bad cop allowed to stay on the force will eventually corrupt all of the cops in the department. As soon as someone covers for him, that person is complicit. The bad apples need to be removed IMMEDIATELY before they destroy the department (or the public's trust in that department).
Little corruption begets big corruption until eventually the cops can't tell right from wrong. It starts with fixing a ticket for a friend and the next thing you know, they're planting evidence and falsifying reports "for the greater good".
"Tell me doctor, with all of your defenses, are there any provisions for an attack by killer bees?"
I don't start conflicts, but if one is started, I fight to win, and I use a constantly increasing levels of force to make sure I win. Situation dominance is my way. and yes, this applies to police.
Dream on. When a police starts a fight with you, it will be escalated beyond your level of force (i.e. you would be shot) so fast that you stand no chance.
The American Public has rights, an individual citizen has no rights.
This is the most ignorant statement I have ever heard. A group has no rights, period. Individuals have rights, those rights extend to where there are groups (see First Amendment). The idea that groups have rights is simply the mistake of the far left wing, and their "Group Politics", and a big reason why Civil Rights Movement has failed.
I have rights, society doesn't. Society is built to protect the rights of the individuals. This is the part of "Liberty and Justice for all". The defense of liberty is the primary function of government. Justice is how that liberty is protected.
Anything less, is simply a step towards tyranny.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
What part of Baltimore is racist? The black run Police Dept? The Black run City Council? The Black Representation in the state? Three of the six police charged in Grey's death?
The problem isn't racism. The problem is that there is a whole class of people excusing bad behavior because of skin color alone, except when it really matters, and sometimes when it isn't even involved (like you here).
Is there racism? Sure, when white liberal guilt makes people say blacks "need our help", that is Racism. Blacks don't need white people's help. They need to help themselves, rather than leaning on the perpetual crutch of "white people hate us". If that is true, then don't depend on white people at all, and excel on your own.
It is Racist make excuses for repeated failures.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
When an officer of the law (which implies "officer of the law-courts") tells you to do something you, as a citizen under the law, must comply.
If you do not comply, then the officer has the right and obligation to clear you from the area by whatever means necessary.
Tell that to Rosa Parks.
The key thing to remember in interaction with cops: Don't be black.
no taxation without representation!
Thing is, a cop can take you in for any reason for something like 24-48 hours even without a formal charge. You will be taken in handcuffs, you will be fingerprinted, you will get a DNA swab taken, you will be strip-searched, you will be forced to spread your cheeks and cough in front of a cop... then they let you go after 24 hours with no charges and a have a nice day. All that just because you pissed off a cop and there's no legal recourse.
You may beat the wrap, but you won't beat the ride. All the humiliation is just a bonus for them to 'get ya' because you didn't bow down in a humble enough fashion.
It depends upon where you are. In Wyoming, it isn't a big deal. In San Fransisco or Chicago, it is.
I personally would feel much safer in Wyoming than in Chicago. But that is me.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
And if the officer falls for it, then it proves that he was in fact bad! It is quite literally the police's job to deal with asshats, and to deal with them appropriately, fairly, and with care to respect their civil rights. If the officer fails to do that, then he deserves to look bad.
Of course, if arresting the person doing the filming is genuinely justified, then when the public sees the video they'll agree the officer was being reasonable and it'll make the person doing the filming look bad, not the officer.
Boo fucking hoo. Being accountable is part of the job. Cop doesn't like it? Then he should turn in his damn badge and GTFO!
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz