Slashdot Mirror


What To Say When the Police Tell You To Stop Filming Them

HughPickens.com writes: Robinson Meyer writes in The Atlantic that first of all, police shouldn't ask. "As a basic principle, we can't tell you to stop recording," says Delroy Burton, a 21-year veteran of DC's police force. "If you're standing across the street videotaping, and I'm in a public place, carrying out my public functions, [then] I'm subject to recording, and there's nothing legally the police officer can do to stop you from recording." What you don't have a right to do is interfere with an officer's work. ""Police officers may legitimately order citizens to cease activities that are truly interfering with legitimate law enforcement operations," according to Jay Stanley who wrote the ACLU's "Know Your Rights" guide for photographers, which lays out in plain language the legal protections that are assured people filming in public. Police officers may not confiscate or demand to view your digital photographs or video without a warrant and police may not delete your photographs or video under any circumstances.

What if an officer says you are interfering with legitimate law enforcement operations and you disagree with the officer? "If it were me, and an officer came up and said, 'You need to turn that camera off, sir,' I would strive to calmly and politely yet firmly remind the officer of my rights while continuing to record the interaction, and not turn the camera off," says Stanley. The ACLU guide also supplies the one question those stopped for taking photos or video may ask an officer: "The right question to ask is, 'am I free to go?' If the officer says no, then you are being detained, something that under the law an officer cannot do without reasonable suspicion that you have or are about to commit a crime or are in the process of doing so. Until you ask to leave, your being stopped is considered voluntary under the law and is legal."

18 of 509 comments (clear)

  1. One small problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    "If it were me, and an officer came up and said, 'You need to turn that camera off, sir,' I would strive to calmly and politely yet firmly remind the officer of my rights while continuing to record the interaction, and not turn the camera off," says Stanley.

    And if it were me, I would think twice or thrice about getting on the bad side of the local police department, being arrested (and who knows what else). Of course I would be vindicated, but that can occur after I spent some time in jail, got charged with some bullshit, spent who knows how much money on laywers and called ACLU for help...

    I mean, look -- there were a bunch of recent stories with suspects getting killed or beaten, and if one is lucky, the police is charged afterwards. Sometimes not even that. Basically, most of us cannot afford to stand on principle. Many have family to support or career to preserve, or both.

    1. Re:One small problem by danbert8 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Right, the biggest risk to you to keep filming is that you spend a few nights in jail, hurt your career, hire a lawyer, spend a few days over the next who knows how many months or years in court, etc.

      Their biggest risk if they deny you your rights is some paid administrative leave while the department investigates.

      --
      Yes it's an anecdote! Were you expecting original research in a Slashdot comment?
    2. Re:One small problem by silas_moeckel · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Don't forget that after the camera is off and nobody is watching you will resist arrest, get physically assaulted and tazed because you know you resisted. In the end resisting arrest will stick and see it was all justified.

      Cops need body camera's and a hard and fast law that anything not captured on body camera the cop can not testify to. Were past the time where we need to or should trust the cops word as to visible facts, technology is capable of giving an impartial viewpoint.

      --
      No sir I dont like it.
    3. Re:One small problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      If it were me, well I'm black, so I'd stop filming and pray the fucker doesn't shoot me and take my camera.

    4. Re:One small problem by knightghost · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Ya'll watch too much TV. If you want to see what a police officer does then ask to do a full shift ride-along. It's rather eye opening.

      The negative focus on officers is 99.9% wrong. If you want laws changed then vote for different politicians.

    5. Re:One small problem by fustakrakich · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Many have family to support or career to preserve, or both.

      Yes, that is how tyranny flourishes. Keep everybody fed just well enough...

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    6. Re:One small problem by rmdingler · · Score: 5, Insightful
      You're both not wrong, of course...

      But. In exchange for the lack of personal inconvenience your compliance ensures, your rights die just a tiny bit.

      I understand the wisdom of not getting cross with the leos, and admit there are immediate and everlasting benefits, but know there are consequences as well.

      --
      Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

      Ernest Hemingway

    7. Re:One small problem by cayenne8 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I mean, look -- there were a bunch of recent stories with suspects getting killed or beate...n

      Well, I think ONE thing is pretty clear.

      Don't RUN from the cops. The one common denominator from most of the recently publicized cop shootings of citizens, is that the citizen generally ran from the officer.

      But one thing to do for sure...don't act like an ass, if you are (and you should) exerting your rights, do so in a calm, non-threatening fashion. Don't shout. Don't curse, use clear concise language. The "Am I free to go" statement is a very simple and very powerful thing to say and get an answer to.

      If you don't give them a reason to beat you...99.999% of the time they are not. Yes, there are bad apples, but I don't think that is the majority. If you do not fight, resist, run or act an ass, chances are you are not going to be arrested or hurt. And if they DO arrest you....just face it, you are going to jail...don't resist, doing so give the cops a LOT of leeway in how they manhandle you.

      Don't give them a reason to do abuse you, but also, you should always know and assert your rights.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    8. Re:One small problem by nedlohs · · Score: 5, Informative

      The biggest risk to you is that you die. Less likely than being arrested and having to spend money on a lawyer and so on, but piss off the wrong cop in America and ending up shot, choked to death, beaten to death, etc isn't an unexpected outcome.

    9. Re:One small problem by mrchaotica · · Score: 5, Informative

      Let's be honest here: the biggest risk to you is that they beat you to death and then concoct some bullshit to justify it after-the-fact.

      That said, if you let that scare you so that you "COMPLY", then you've let the totalitarians win.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    10. Re:One small problem by operagost · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's fun to pretend that we have a police racism issue, but it's really a general police brutality issue. It's just that the most vocal communities are focused on people who look like them. So far, none of the black men who were recently abused by the police were trying to film them, so I think your allegation is off topic.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    11. Re:One small problem by Scutter · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yes, there are bad apples, but I don't think that is the majority.
      I think you misunderstand the "bad apple" metaphor. It's important to note the entire phrase or it makes zero sense: One bad apple spoils the bushel. What this means is that if you allow a minor corruption to go unchecked, it will eventually corrupt all of the apples in the bushel. One bad cop allowed to stay on the force will eventually corrupt all of the cops in the department. As soon as someone covers for him, that person is complicit. The bad apples need to be removed IMMEDIATELY before they destroy the department (or the public's trust in that department).

      Little corruption begets big corruption until eventually the cops can't tell right from wrong. It starts with fixing a ticket for a friend and the next thing you know, they're planting evidence and falsifying reports "for the greater good".

      --

      "Tell me doctor, with all of your defenses, are there any provisions for an attack by killer bees?"
    12. Re:One small problem by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The American Public has rights, an individual citizen has no rights.

      This is the most ignorant statement I have ever heard. A group has no rights, period. Individuals have rights, those rights extend to where there are groups (see First Amendment). The idea that groups have rights is simply the mistake of the far left wing, and their "Group Politics", and a big reason why Civil Rights Movement has failed.

      I have rights, society doesn't. Society is built to protect the rights of the individuals. This is the part of "Liberty and Justice for all". The defense of liberty is the primary function of government. Justice is how that liberty is protected.

      Anything less, is simply a step towards tyranny.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    13. Re:One small problem by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What part of Baltimore is racist? The black run Police Dept? The Black run City Council? The Black Representation in the state? Three of the six police charged in Grey's death?

      The problem isn't racism. The problem is that there is a whole class of people excusing bad behavior because of skin color alone, except when it really matters, and sometimes when it isn't even involved (like you here).

      Is there racism? Sure, when white liberal guilt makes people say blacks "need our help", that is Racism. Blacks don't need white people's help. They need to help themselves, rather than leaning on the perpetual crutch of "white people hate us". If that is true, then don't depend on white people at all, and excel on your own.

      It is Racist make excuses for repeated failures.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    14. Re:One small problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Dream on. When a police starts a fight with you, it will be escalated beyond your level of force (i.e. you would be shot) so fast that you stand no chance.

      Depends entirely on your level of training. I wouldn't stand a chance, but...

      Was sitting in a boss's office one morning when he got a call from a worker saying he couldn't come him because he was in jail. Gist of call was: guy was working on his car in the street, cop stopped and started harassing him, cop got sufficiently belligerent that he started to fear for his safety, so he disarmed the cop and held him until others came and arrested him. No shit. That was his story. Didn't like cop's attitude, so disarmed him and detained him. You just never know when that black man in a crappy neighborhood working on his crappy car is ex special forces ;-)

      But the boss's side of the conversation was priceless. "Wait. What? Did I hear that right? You disarmed him???"

    15. Re:One small problem by CimmerianX · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Thing is, a cop can take you in for any reason for something like 24-48 hours even without a formal charge. You will be taken in handcuffs, you will be fingerprinted, you will get a DNA swab taken, you will be strip-searched, you will be forced to spread your cheeks and cough in front of a cop... then they let you go after 24 hours with no charges and a have a nice day. All that just because you pissed off a cop and there's no legal recourse.

      You may beat the wrap, but you won't beat the ride. All the humiliation is just a bonus for them to 'get ya' because you didn't bow down in a humble enough fashion.

  2. Re:Yeah, you can say it from jail by AntronArgaiv · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Freedom isn't free. If you don't stand up for your rights, you'll have them trampled on. Every citizen with a video camera is a bad cop's worst nightmare.

  3. Re:Compliance, huh? by mrchaotica · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If police in the '50s were like they are now, I wouldn't be surprised if Rosa Parks would have been summarily shot.

    --

    "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz