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US Appeals Court Says NSA Phone Surveillance Is Not Authorized By Congress
New submitter IronOxen writes: A panel of three federal judges for the second circuit overturned an earlier ruling. The court has ruled that the bulk collection of telephone metadata is unlawful, in a landmark decision that clears the way for a full legal challenge against the National Security Agency: "'We hold that the text of section 215 cannot bear the weight the government asks us to assign to it, and that it does not authorize the telephone metadata program,' concluded their judgement." That's not exactly saying that such bulk collection is unconscionable or per se unconstitutional, but it's a major step toward respecting privacy as a default.
maybe now we can pardon Snowden?
No, not authorized is a lighter ruling. It means tomorrow congress can pass a law explicitly allowing it, and there would be no problem cuz it wasn't ruled unconstitutional.
Not authorized isn't a lighter ruling, it's a very damning ruling against the NSA, and it's the only ruling that can be made in this case simply for the reason that there was no law on the books where Congress gave authorization for the NSA to operate like this. To put it succinctly: The NSA was ruled to be operating outside the law... which effectively makes them criminals (won't be holding my breath for any actual prosecutions, though).
Now, if Congress goes back and creates a law that Authorizes the NSA to operate in this manner, then the issue can be brought back to court for Judgement to be made on the constitutionality of the law. Then that verdict will hold a more permanent weight on the future of government surveillance and the kind of laws Congress is able to write around it.
I disagree. But I modded you up. Your opinion seems honest and relevant to the topic.
It would be hypocritical of a people like us Americans to deride others for asymmetrical warfare when we won our freedom from England using just that, so if that's the scope of what you're hearing: agreed, hypocrits. My objection to it is the targeting of children. If terrorists blew up Fort Knox, that's fair game.
It is similarly condemnable when US drone strikes hit kids too. That's just NEVER ok.
As for the line you draw on freedom, it's just too simple. Like drawing space shuttle schematics in crayon, no matter how much effort you put into it, it's not going to come into sharp focus.
The goal isn't "invade everyone we don't agree with" "it's keep the wars small and let the people fix their own governments."
I know that's doesn't sound as grandiose as the way the war-mongers sell it, but it's a better description of what we do, than any sales pitch I've heard. The fundamental idea is that Freedom works better than anything else. If that's true, countries will migrate toward freedom over time.
And they do. To your specific points, the Saudis have enough money to buy their way out of many problems with a less-free society, Israel is a democracy like ours with a pendulum that swings in favor of the Bourgeoisie from time to time and has to be pushed back with reforms. Ours is hovering way over on the side of the 1% at the moment and it's causing problems and we're fixing them. N. Korea is a tragedy. The hope is to keep it contained until it collapses under its own weight. For all it's faults the Chinese government has provided decades of economic growth and its still popular the majority of the people. And Somalia... didn't we already try that?
I think we are doing the best that we can with a messy situation. Which is all I can reasonably ask of my government.
Well sure, but Al Capone and John Gotti have a decidedly odd slant on liberty and restrictions on government action.
You know my grandfather was kidnapped by Capone back in the 30's and that was because his would be wife was a court clerk. Not too hard to figure out what was going on there and my grandfather was a good boy and kept his mouth shut but in '64 the mafia on north shore Tahoe ripped off and killed both my grandparents on my fathers side anyway. He had wired 'hospital fund raiser' money for image sensors for a project that was run in absolute secrecy, my grandparents were killed in a plane crash immediately following that and the money never made it, in fact the USAF had to purchase the image sensors. In 1964 my great uncle Jack cancelled the CIA SR program due to a security breach because of that. My father on 5/1/2013 was killed by Sherriff's officers in Reno, NV. Sherriff's officers that were previously corrections officers on south shore Tahoe that were accused of rape of female inmates in their jail and were fired but also given letters of recommendation? These pricks wanted me to jury tamper my father on the Caputo case? WTF? For this reason I have contacted remaining folks that are still alive in the SR program and I have advised them I am moving to Germany because of this. They call them men of honor, not unlike Snowden, I call bullshit;
US-Regierung ist defekt, von mafia- kontrollierten, getÃtet und ausgeraubt radar mans projektfÃrderung, mein groÃYvater im jahre 1964, und radar mans neffe - mein vater auf 2013.01.05, setup ganze familie. groÃYneffe des radar- mans deser nach Deutschland, weil der mafia. Politisches asyl.
On 6/1/2013, I am out of here. The mafia runs your country and I just can't stop thinking about Naples, Italy in 1991 where the people attacked the mafia because they were not being represented and that same shit is going on here. There's a lot of people in this country and when this shit comes to a head, I'd rather be watching from across the pond and preferably working on what my family was doing pre 1964. That happened to be slated to be the best part of the JFK space program after satellite tech was to be implemented, but they are not honorable and they are greedy and quite willing to give up something better tomorrow for a quick buck today, this has only gotten worse in this country over the last 50 years and to the point that they no longer have a choice but to play it crooked. Screwed the US is, done it to them selves they have for 50 years, defecting, I am.