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Critics Say It's Time To Close La Guardia Airport

HughPickens.com writes: George Haikalis writes in the NYT that last week, the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey put off, yet again, deciding between two proposals for a nearly $4 billion project to rehabilitate the dilapidated Central Terminal Building at La Guardia Airport. But piling billions of taxpayer dollars into upgrading La Guardia, which has been likened to an experience "in a third world country," won't solve its fundamental problems. "It can't easily expand," says Haikalis. "Its two runways and four terminals are surrounded on three sides by water, making landing difficult and hazardous. Parking is a nightmare."

There are precedents for replacing airports close to the center city with modern, more outlying airports. Hong Kong and Denver are two examples; Berlin will soon follow suit. With the consolidation of the major United States airlines and the sluggishness in the global economy, the much larger Kennedy and Newark airports could accommodate La Guardia's passenger load, by adding more frequent service and using larger aircraft, if the F.A.A. were to lift the caps on the number of flights allowed there. Kennedy, with its two sets of parallel runways, could handle many more flights, particularly as new air-traffic control technology is introduced in the next few years. The money budgeted for the La Guardia upgrades would be better used to create a long-proposed one-ride express-rail link between Manhattan and J.F.K., by reviving a long-disused, 3.5-mile stretch of track in central Queens and completing the modernization of the terminals at Kennedy. "By avoiding the costly replacement of outmoded terminals at La Guardia and by creating a new express rail link and upgrading terminals at Kennedy, the increased economic activity could more than make up for the lost jobs," concludes Haikalis. "New York's importance to America's economy demands a first world vision to shutter this third world airport."

11 of 203 comments (clear)

  1. No thank you by JBMcB · · Score: 4, Insightful

    La Guardia is right next to the Triborough and at the top of the BQE. You can get to midtown via taxi in 20 minutes in heavy traffic. It takes ten minutes from the time you are off the Jetway, down the escalator, at the luggage carousel, and to the cab stand.

    Granted, landing and taking off can be... exciting. One day we had a nasty tail wind, so the pilot had to gun the engines as we were making the turn onto the runway to get enough speed - something I've never seen anyone do before.

    Otherwise, I'd give up useless amenities for expediency.

    --
    My Other Computer Is A Data General Nova III.
    1. Re:No thank you by antiperimetaparalogo · · Score: 5, Informative

      Well, George Haikalis (civil engineer / transportation planner), as a Greek (American), is apparently influenced by the ideas of Constantinos Doxiadis, a well known internationally Greek architect and city planner (e.g., master planner of Pakistan's capital new builded city, Islamabad) who was proposing closing our old airport in Athens and building a new for decades before that happened (just before the 2004 Olympics) - our new Athens airport, while far from the city center (but with an express metro rail link), is far more efficient, and has contributed to the economy (don't laugh... at least our tourism does great, this year we had more than 20 million visits in Greece -double our population-, many of them landing in Athens before going to the islands, something our old airport could not provide because of its limits). Many (most) Athenians were against the new airport (and/or closing our old), but now everyone agrees that it was the right thing. And the old airport's area, inside Athens (and next to the sea), is now the biggest free zone for city development in Europe (something we hope will bring few billions Euros, as we may need them right now!). But the key was the express metro rail link between the airport and Athens center, something George Haikalis surely used many times - if Athens can do it right, NY can do it better.

      --
      Antisthenes: "Wisdom begins by examining the words/names." - excuse my English, i am (slightly...) better with my Greek!
    2. Re:No thank you by guises · · Score: 4, Funny

      I always avoid La Guardia because there's no subway there. If you're Daddy Warbucks and taking taxis everywhere then fine, I can see why you might want La Guardia to freshen up its tophat stand and add a new monocle dispenser. JFK is always the faster and more convenient option for me.

    3. Re: No thank you by antiperimetaparalogo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That's really the point' isn't it. This is a plan to steal billions of dollars of land at the expense of everyone flying into and out of New York. The only expansion LGA needs is the subway. Not a stupid light rail that makes you connect to the subway, but just continue the N train and get rid of the cab stand. The stupid light rail, by the way will save no one time, and consequently will not help. But, I'm just a civil engineer, what the hell do I know

      I am not a civil engineer/architect/city/transportation planner (but i have met all major Greeks, including associates of those i mentioned earlier) and i don't know the NY LG airport case, but, and excuse me, i find stupid this conspiracy of yours (i.e., "steal billions of dollars of land" - obviously related to what i wrote "And the old airport's area, inside Athens (and next to the sea), is now the biggest free zone for city development in Europe [...]"). Can you answer who is the thief and from who is stealing? Because even if you dont count all the other benefits of a new airport, changing land usage in an expanded/expanding city is something healthy and can not be considered "stealing". I don't doubt that the technical details you wrote are right, nor that you are a good civil engineer, but sometimes other factors are more important in such decisions, factors that are beyong your technical field. As i mentioned i have met all major Greeks civil engineer/architect (some of them you may know them too, even if you are not Greek): once, when all of them together, they discussed (as auto-criticism) how they destroyed Athens in the 50-60-70's decade(s) - the conclusion by the engineer/architect was that city planning is too important to be left to you guys!

      --
      Antisthenes: "Wisdom begins by examining the words/names." - excuse my English, i am (slightly...) better with my Greek!
    4. Re: No thank you by PPH · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The only expansion LGA needs is the subway.

      Not exactly. As described here it's also a question of airspace. J.F.K., Newark-Liberty, and LaGuardia all overlap and cause delays and complex routing to avoid conflicts.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
  2. Dont fix what is not broken by Trachman · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It can be guaranteed that New York will choose the most expensive option, will have a budget overrun and will be 20 years late.

    When you see likening to the third world country is a mere beginning of the campaign so that people would be believe that the issue is so big, so unsolvable that only a multi-billion dollar project can solve the issue. There will be proposals for floating on water airports, airports to be build on artificial islands.

    For all I care, the NYC with one of the largest subway systems in the world for the last 85 years could not extend a subway link to Laguardia. I do not know what was the issue: corrupt taxicab companies or some other sinister reasons.

    The issue is not Laguardia airport here, the issue is poor public transportation to certain airports, or truth the be told - absence of if, and there are many other airports in NYC metro area: Islip, Westchester, teterboro, Trenton, and so on.

    In my opinion, travelers do not care about the appearance of the airports, all they want is convenient way to arrive, park or rent a car, and leave shortly. Politicians want appearance, costs be damned.

  3. Error in summary: by Smidge204 · · Score: 4, Informative

    "Parking is a nightmare."

    This statement implies parking is even possible.

    Last time I went there to pick someone up, I drove around in circles in a holding pattern comparable to the planes themselves. "Parking" is not something that actually occurs at La Guardia.
    =Smidge=

  4. MCI by rfengr · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It just like in Kansas City where the asshole politicians want to rebuild what is the most convenient airport (for the local traveler) of anywhere in the country. You can be at your car in 1 minute from stepping off the plane. It's not about serving the citizenry, more about leeching taxes.

  5. Small Airports Have Advantages by psperl · · Score: 4, Interesting

    As a New Yorker, I much prefer LaGuardia, and strongly disagree with calls for its closing. As a small airport, it isn't burdened with its own size in terms of processing passengers. Everything at JFK takes longer than at LGA strictly because of magnitude.

    JFK is literally too big to provide efficient service to individuals. Once the check-in & security hurdle is cleared, one still has to walk nearly a mile to get to their actual gate. Once boarded, the plane has to taxi for minutes just to arrive at the runway, where you will likely have to queue for an additional wait to takeoff. As others have mentioned, I easily save at least 30 minutes by flying from LGA, when adding up travel, check-in, security, walking to the gate, taxi-ing, and runway queuing.

    I would love to see these large airports replaced with multiple smaller airports. A larger percentage of the population would have an airport nearby, and average travel times would be reduced significantly. It seems to me that planners are optimizing for everything except your personal experience when they design and advocate for mega-airports.

    1. Re:Small Airports Have Advantages by Idarubicin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      As a New Yorker, I much prefer LaGuardia, and strongly disagree with calls for its closing.

      The point is, I think, that in exchange for an improvement (real or hypothetical) in convenience for a small fraction of total air travellers, there is a substantial and arguably unnecessary burden of cost and inconvenience to the entire system (which is ultimately paid for out of everyone's pockets--and user experiences).

      I would love to see these large airports replaced with multiple smaller airports. A larger percentage of the population would have an airport nearby, and average travel times would be reduced significantly.

      Well no, it wouldn't. A fully-served point-to-point network with n nodes (cities served) has on the order of n squared links between nodes. The number of passengers desiring each direct link gets to be very small, very quick, meaning infrequent scheduled flights on small, underfilled, costly-per-seat aircraft. So what happens is that airlines adopt (to one extent or another) a hub-and-spoke model. Most direct point-to-point routings are dropped. If I want to fly from East Podunk, NY (POD) to Los Angeles, I can't get a direct flight POD-LAX. Instead, I get a hop to an airline's hub (JFK or ORD or DTW or wherever), and a connection from that hub to LA: POD-JFK-LAX, or POD-DTW-LAX, or POD-ORD-LAX.

      If I want to go to a destination served by a smaller airport (let's call it West Lemon, CA: LEM), then I'm taking three flights: spoke to hub, hub to hub, hub to spoke: POD-JFK-LAX-LEM. And each of those flights carries with it the time penalties associated with loading and unloading passengers and cargo, and a risk of delays or cancellations due to weather and other circumstances--plus the plain old waiting for connections, because service to and from the small airports at POD and LEM is infrequent.

      Worse still, all those little commuter flights linking the regional airports to the major hubs are going to take up gates and takeoff and landing slots at those busy airports, slowing down the whole system and/or pushing those less-important flights to less-desirable times of day. Taken all together, offering frequent (or even just daily) service to a lot of small airports is going to mean a lot more flights of a lot more smaller aircraft, and/or passengers frequently making multiple connections. It would be expensive per-seat and vulnerable to failures and delays.

      Now, La Guardia is an interesting case. Since it's right next to downtown New York, it draws a substantial number of departing or arriving passengers, and enjoys a kind-of-weird pseudo-hub status for historical reasons. Practically speaking, though, it means that there are effectively two hubs (LGA and JFK) or even three (if we count EWR) serving the same area, resulting in needless duplication of services. Routes that could enjoy frequent service with inexpensive (per-seat) full-sized jets get less-full or more-expensive aircraft, or less-frequent services divided between two or three New York destinations. Local New Yorkers enjoy the appearance of convenient, direct flights, at the cost of making the rest of the system a bit worse and a bit more expensive for everyone.

      --
      ~Idarubicin
  6. Re:Hazardous by Zocalo · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Hong Kong is slightly different though. They can justify the expense of building an aritificial island to solve the hazardous approach issues with the former airport on the grounds that there simply was no other viable alternative as there was simply no way to suitably adapt the existing airport to make it safer or any preexisting alternative location. La Guardia has similar problems, but has far more alternative options than the "artificial island" approach, although its convenience to central NYC does make it a good location that makes simply closing it unattractive.

    Still, the "all or nothing" solutions being proposed (close it or spending $4b renovating it) do seem a little restrictive though. Perhaps a better option would be to turn it into more of a City Airport for those actually travelling to NYC, while moving as much of the through "hub" and international traffic out to J.F.K and Newark where rapid access to NYC is much less important. You'd still need to overhaul the La Guardia terminal, but potentially on a much smaller scale, even allowing for potential future growth.

    --
    UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!