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FWD.us To Laid-Off Southern California Edison Workers: Boo-Hoo

theodp writes: Speaking at a National Journal LIVE event that was sponsored by Mark Zuckerberg's FWD.us and Laurene Powell Jobs' Emerson Collective, FWD.us "Major Contributor" Lars Dalgaard was asked about the fate of 500 laid-off Southern California Edison IT workers, whose forced training of their H-1B worker replacements from offshore outsourcing companies sparked a bipartisan Senate investigation. "If you want the job, make yourself able to get the job," quipped an unsympathetic Dalgaard (YouTube). "Nobody's going to hold you up and carry you around...If you're not going to work hard enough to be qualified to get the job...well then, you don't deserve the job." "That might be harsh," remarked interviewer Niharika Acharya. Turning to co-interviewee Pierre-Jean Cobut, FWD.us's poster child for increasing the H-1B visa cap, Acharya asked, "Do you agree with him?" "Actually, I do," replied PJ, drawing laughs from the crowd.

13 of 612 comments (clear)

  1. They trained their replacements by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 5, Insightful

    These guys are jerks. Obviously the Edison IT workers were qualified - they trained their replacements. Equally obvious they were available to do the job, so there was no reason to bring in H1Bs. Outright fraud by Edison, abetted by the government.

    --
    "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    1. Re:They trained their replacements by Dragonslicer · · Score: 5, Insightful

      These guys are jerks. Obviously the Edison IT workers were qualified - they trained their replacements. Equally obvious they were available to do the job, so there was no reason to bring in H1Bs. Outright fraud by Edison, abetted by the government.

      I think training someone else to do a job is harder than doing the job, so I'd say they were better than qualified.

  2. Re:They're right you bunch of freetards by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Corporations are not, and have never been, the job creators. Customers are the job creators.

    --
    "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
  3. It's the same old lies from these H1B advocates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Edison wanted cheaper workers, plain and simple. Dalgaard and Cobut should be ashamed of themselves, but slimeballs like that know no shame.

    1. Re:It's the same old lies from these H1B advocates by DRJlaw · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Everybody wants cheaper stuff. Are you ashamed of yourself when buying a cheaper consumer article ?

      I'll accept that argument the moment that I'm given the legal ability to purchase something from any nation on the planet, legally import it, and legally use it within the United States.

      Instead, U.S. workers must compete against foreign workers in labor, while U.S. corporations are protected from foreign corporations (or themselves) in sales through geographically segreated licenses, import restrictions, and digital rights management schemes. If publishers are willing to sell their goods in Brataslava for 25% of US retail, we should be able to buy it for that price. If manufactures want to sell electronics to the UK at UKP-USD parity, the brits and northern irish should be able to simply buy those products out of the US.

      "Nobody's going to hold you up and carry you around..." is a good theory only if it applies to all. But it most certainly does not.

    2. Re:It's the same old lies from these H1B advocates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Could not agree more strongly.

      There is this bizarre, pseudo-libertarian mindset in the US currently that "less government intrusion in the marketplace is always better", which is a steaming crock of shit if there ever was one.

      What's best for individuals and society in general is for people not to be abused by corporations and governments that wield extreme amounts of marketplace or legal power. In other words, the closer we get to the old-school economics definition of "perfect competition", where everyone has complete knowledge of the marketplace and no one can influence it, the better. But the only way we move away from a marketplace controlled by a small number of huge corporations and toward something we would all consider far more fair, is by (gasp!) government intervention. This means laws against false advertising and insider trading, governments blocking absurd mergers that harm customers, etc. The marketplace we want is a human fabrication that does not spontaneously arise; the total lack of government intervention in markets isn't nirvana, it's anarchy.

    3. Re:It's the same old lies from these H1B advocates by dcw3 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So, it's not the businesses that are to blame. It's the laws that permits them.

      I don't disagree with your statement, just the lack of morality of those pushing for more H1Bs. For the record, I'm generally fiscally conservative, but this shit must be stopped.

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    4. Re:It's the same old lies from these H1B advocates by CanHasDIY · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Why can't they make their country better, rather than making ours worse by proxy?

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    5. Re:It's the same old lies from these H1B advocates by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Fuck those poor indians who get to live in a protected market where they can buy cheap food, drugs, movies, computer development software, computers while getting to earn income in a different country with higher costs where poverty level income is thousands of dollars higher than middle class income in india due to those lower costs.

      If u.s. workers were allowed to reimport all the items sold for cheaper in india, it would still be difficult to compete (higher property costs here) . Heck, my blood pressure medicine is $5 a pill. The same pill "illegally" on line can be had from india for 10 cents.
      The same movie I pay $16 for, they pay $2.49 for. The same movie I pay $12 to see in theaters, they pay $.50 for.

      In the long run it doesn't matter. By 2055, wage stagnation here, and much higher inflation there will equalize wages to the point where the advantage is lost. But it should darn well matter to voters here now who should be aware politicians are not enforcing the law. It's illegal to replace existing u.s. workers directly with h1b workers. At a minimum, when this is occurring, the limits on H1B's should be reduced- not increased.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
  4. Re:They're right you bunch of freetards by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    No. Those "leftists" want to ensure that workers have more control over their own lives. This is inherently difficult to do when employers, both individually and collectively, have much more power than the employee.

    An employee who is fired loses their livelihood.

    An employer who has an employee that quits loses some of their capacity to do business. Depending upon the size of their business, that loss in capacity ranges from negligible to critical-but-not-fatal.

    There are various ways to balance that power. Regulation is one means. Unionization is another approach. Of course, controlling supply (e.g. limiting H1B's) is also a valuable tool for changing the balance. Note that I say balancing power. Even many staunch union supporters would agree that giving workers more power than employers is a bad idea.

  5. Solution by alvinrod · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Here's an easy solution to this problem. Make H1-B a path to citizenship (and really we want as much intelligent and highly-skilled labors as possible to stick around) so that eventually companies can't hold the H1-B over an employee's head to keep wages down. Next, keep track of former H1-B workers who are currently unemployed and do not allow for any addition applications until there there are fewer than say 10% who have been unemployed for more than a year. Additionally, count any citizens who were displaced by an H1-B worker (would need to follow companies using H1-B workers more closely, but that's part of the trade-off) as part of this pool as well.

    If a company can't find enough skilled workers, they need to raise wages to attract better candidates and let the companies who aren't willing to pay as much draw from the pool of applicants who are less qualified. Otherwise they can pick from what's available and spend some time training their hires.

  6. Simple Solution by l0ungeb0y · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Require all employers who hire an H1-B to pay TOP MARKET RATE for their region for the position they hire that person for.Additionally, require the employer initiate and cover all costs of Naturalization of the H1-B employee after 1 year or rescind H1-B status and send them home. A per worker fee that is large enough to cover teh cost of oversight should be required for each H1-B worker hired. This could be handled through ICE -- the same as they handle Green Card Applicants -- just perform random interviews and checks on the H1-B workers to ensure they are indeed working in the job capacity they were documented as and are indeed receiving the appropriate level of pay. Deviation should result in hefty fines the first time ($100,000 or more per incident) with severe penalties after repeated incidents ($1,000,000+ fines and revocation of all H1-B permits and inability to obtain future permits)

    This way, we can be sure H1-Bs will indeed be a highly skilled and specialized worker hired because there is no local equivalent and that the H1-B worker is not exploited as a cheap labor source and given all employee accommodations as required under law.

  7. Re:They're right you bunch of freetards by Grishnakh · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Germany has historically had extremely strong unions, and their economy is doing just fine. It isn't unionization that screws up economies, it's having overly-generous government pension programs (with people retiring in their 40s or whatever it was in Greece), too much business going on under-the-table and no taxes being paid on it (a huge problem in Greece), and people not doing much productive work in general (another big problem in Greece, where it seems most people work for the government, and the rest working in tourism, and no real industry to speak of; when was the last time you bought something that said "Made in Greece"? I think they make some cheese, and that's all I can think of.).