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How Windows 10 Performs On a 12-inch MacBook
An anonymous reader writes: As Microsoft prepares for the launch of Windows 10, review sites have been performing all sorts of benchmarks on the tech preview to evaluate how well the operating system will run. But now a computer science student named Alex King has made the most logical performance evaluation of all: testing Windows 10's performance on a 2015 MacBook. He says, "Here's the real kicker: it's fast. It's smooth. It renders at 60FPS unless you have a lot going on. It's unequivocally better than performance on OS X, further leading me to believe that Apple really needs to overhaul how animations are done. Even when I turn Transparency off in OS X, Mission Control isn't completely smooth. Here, even after some Aero Glass transparency has been added in, everything is smooth. It's remarkable, and it makes me believe in the 12-inch MacBook more than ever before. So maybe it's ironic that in some regards, the new MacBook runs Windows 10 (a prerelease version, at that) better than it runs OS X."
An apples to oranges... err I mean apple to Windows comparison in 3, 2, 1...
and my beat to shit 2007 DEL Inspirion 1720 Core 2 duo also flies smooth. Stange eh?
by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
Too bad no one wants Windows 10 or a macbook!
And it will run even better.
There doesn't seem to be much factual evidence to make the claim that "It's unequivocally better than performance on OS X,"...
The claim, by it's very language deletes a lot of information making the claim worthless.
Unequivocally ... (says who?)
Better... (by what standard?)
Performance (by what metric?)
I know that this is probably just a personal blog with an opinion.... and he does want to quantify the claim with stats... but it's a bit too early to make the claim.
READY.
PRINT ""+-0
But does it run Linux?
I am Audience.
it's fast. It's smooth. It renders at 60FPS
Super smooth, rendering like a pro, bro! Framerate is king, and MY RIG has a HUGE COCK.
... there's still a long-ish way to go until Windows 10 is out. And I'm afraid it'll come with surprises that we don't want (more bloatware? Advertising?).
I'm impressed by the performance boosts Windows got through 8, 8.1 and now 10, but unfortunately that is not enough for an OS. I'm uncomfortable with navigating the OS, something which should be seamless, logical and extremely easy to do; imagine if you had to think about every step you take whilst you go shopping.
I've also installed Windows 7, 8, 8.1 on a Macbook Pro and it's terrible. Oh, it is fast, trouble is the energy management is so poor the processor is overheating so the fans go turbo-mode. Not a pleasant experience.
I'll stick to 7 for the moment and OS X, they do the job properly without the hassle of a sad smilie BSOD.
Whether this Marvel is still smooth and fast!
Sent as ripples into the electromagnetic field. No single photon has been harmed in the process.
My beloved 7 crashed, bad, again, this past week and I finally decided to try out 10, I am running 10074 and it made my ....5? year old pavilion DV6 6135 feel like a brand new computer. It really is gorgeous and has a lower overhead. Not sure that this is relevant other than additional praise for 10, but I thought you would like to know.
Tried that but wasn't able to get something useful from "cat /proc/cpuinfo".
Quisque verborum suorum optimus interpres...
Windows fanboys: We told you so...
Mac fanboys: Pfft buncha Windows fanboys
Linux fanboys: Whatever, Linux is free and runs on anything lightning fast
How is testing windows 10 on a macbook "the most logical performance evaluation of all"?
Ballmer is gone, the nightmare is over.
Seriously though, I like the things Nadella has been doing. Reverting the Windows 8 start screen, releasing Windows 10 for free and developing HoloLens into a product (something Ballmer would have left collecting dust in some Microsoft research lab).
Do you know how I know you're lying?
Try the same in powershell!
Oh hey, this whole site is ridiculous, isn't it? Look, they talk about computers, computers cost money... And cellphones? Have you seen how expensive these are, gosh... Thank god we live in the United Federation of Planets and don't use this kind of thing anymore. Hey computer, where's my free coffee?
"I decided I could write something better than everything out there in two weeks. And I was right." - Linus Torvalds
I wouldn't wish cygwin on my worst enemy.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
This submission (as some of the others recently) are there to troll slashdotters. We're being used as THEY know that there'll be factions and fanbois sprouting stuff about their favourite OS. It's a matter of respect and there is little of that around any more.
Don't be apathetic. Procrastinate!
The only reason Windows can run at all on macs is because it is the exact same hardware. That is to say, Apple use Intel chipsets. Yes there is boot camp & the like for selection & any trusted platform module chip to allow it. Likewise if you run Mac OSX, mavericks on a PC (hackintosh) it runs same. Apple doesn't allow that legally, naturally, it refuses to run. No OEM ever produced a Mac. They are proprietary, hardware & software together, unlike Windows which has always been licences. Only OEMs & Microsoft partners once manufactured PCs, but now Microsoft is also a hardware company, so they can manufacture their own now too as well as put their own software on them too.
No operating system renders on a constant frame rate. It's repainting parts of the screen on demand.
Also, unlike PCs, where the hardware uses 'open architecture', being made by many different manufacturers & assembled together & running software produced by another company, Macs use 'closed hardware architecture'. No one other than Apple can produce a Mac & even the software that runs on a Mac is by Apple (no Original Equipment Manufacturer ever produced a Mac).
As Apple does both hardware & software, the 'closed architecture' has very little in the way of user-serviceable parts, with RAM soldered to the motherboard & battery packs glued into place). Also by security locking certain components, Intel-based versions of the MacOS only run on special, Apple-branded PCs that contain a proprietary security chip. The MacOS looks for the security chip, & refuses to run if it's installed in a Computer without the chip- which is to say: It will refuse to run on any other brand PC, even if all the other hardware is identical. Apple use legal measures to remain the sole provider of Mac hardware; thus allowing them to charge their premium prices (& therefore offer their own first party support where required).
For these reasons & because Windows can be an infinitely better operating system when it isn't smothered by the demoware, adware, & other bloatware that many PC manufacturers & vendors splay onto the start menus, the desktop, & the System Tray, PC owners usually get proper performance with a fresh clean signature install of the operating system itself.
So he did the needful?
At the bottom of the
You must really hate how OS X breaks all sorts of Linux things, even though it actually qualifies as an official Unix distribution.
Oh, it is fast, trouble is the energy management is so poor the processor is overheating so the fans go turbo-mode. Not a pleasant experience.
Welcome to the fantastic world of "embed controllers" (EC). The small custom chip sitting in the middle of a laptop, and in charge with all the peculiar functionality that are peculiar to this laptop, but don't exist in standard desktop/workstations. (like battery management, etc.)
The problem is that there is absolutely no standardisation of ECs. Every model is its own special snow flake (and when I say "model" I mean model of motherboard. In some case, specially consumer oriented laptop, some product range might have the same model name and the same plastic case and looks absolutely the same from the outside, but is actually different revisions which looks completely different under the hood, depending on which parts were the cheapest during the month this one was produced) (that's why for the same "Model" you have a few different BIOS downloads depending on part number, revision, etc.)
To get it working the manufacturer could write a specific driver. Usually this is done by the hardware manufacturer who write drivers for the target OS they have. Most laptop manufacturer write drivers for Windows, because they produce windows laptops. Here it's an *Apple* don't expect much.
To make things worse: usually these aren't your garden variety of drivers. Very often, platform functionality like ECs are handled by ACPI (now part of UEFI). i.e.: by firmware that is byte-code interpreted by the running system. In theory it should make things more OS-agnostic and portable. In practice it's a nightmare as every ACPI implementation is buggy in its own way, and every OS has a different variety of quirks. So writers of firmware (BIOS/UEFI/ACPI) for laptops have to release new versions of firmware (again, one per model of EC on mother board).
You can count on big brands to release a new BIOS pack download to cover the major flavours of Windows that they ship with this model. Maybe cover an update.
But don't count on engineers working for Apple to scram to release a new firmware update, just because some random schmuck decided to install a newer version of windows whose ACPI implementation is broken in a subtly different way than the preceding.
Their official OS that they support is OS X, they might have decided to add as a bonus a version or two supported as part of their Boot Camp offering.
And that's about it, don't count much more from them.
Funny that *windows* is now at the receiving end of this firmware/EC problem, that usually haunts Linux users on laptop that mostly run Windows.
(The problem that you report trying to run Windows on Apple hardware ? That's the daily plight of Linux users on most Windows laptops).
--------------
Also that might be the reason of the performance gain and "overall smoothness" reported by TFA:
- when running under OS X, the OS balances performance with battery life, thermal limits, etc. hardware runs at an equilibrium. Thus isn't as smooth as it theoretically could, because OS decides to save a bit power.
- Windows 10 has very probably an ACPI implementation that is subtly broken in a different way that its predecessor. Power management doesn't work. GPU is run at max power profile, CPU is run at max frequency. Results are probably smoother, but if the guy had actually carred to measure it in details, he would probably have observed shittier battery life.
Relevant quote (emphasis by me):
Yup definitely a possibility that shitty battery life and heat that you describe and the high performance that the author got are the
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
Windows 10 will be broken by design somehow. We just don't know what yet. But they will never get it right. Ever. Some proof: I tried "ls -l" this morning, and it did NOT work.
The "ls" command (Get-ChildItem) works just fine in PowerShell. The "-l" parameter is not needed as the listing is wide by default.
Will the new windows 10 be the revolution for this network or will be a new windows ME?
http://www.abogadoamigo.com/
Seriously though, I like the things Nadella has been doing. Reverting the Windows 8 start screen, releasing Windows 10 for free
Let's not forget that a lot of those decisions have actually been made by the Operating Systems Group, which is lead by Joe Belfiore and Terry Myerson.
A tribble drank your coffee and ate your chicken sandwich too.
Get-ChildItem gci dir ls
Too verbose PowerShell is, more cryptic should be.
It's nice to hear that Win10 runs well on a MacBook, but it's pure clickbait to claim that it "runs better" than does OS X. The measure being used is completely subjective. Microsoft and Apple might be optimizing for entirely different things. Without far more objective tests, we simply have no idea. It's silly to claim to have an objective answer based on this observation. Even the writer's claim that Win 10 runs at 60 fps turns out to be made up, because he admits that it simply looks that way and he hasn't found a way to test it. In other words, this is purely subjective AND this subjective observation about one thing says nothing about how either operating system performs overall. He can reasonably say that he installed Win 10 on the MacBook and he liked the way it performed. He can't reasonably compare the performance of the two operating systems, at least not based on anything he said here. Windows may be better by some objective measures. We just can't tell that from anything here.
Tried that but wasn't able to get something useful from "cat /proc/cpuinfo".
Hah. Learn to use the tools that are available in the system. Type the following into PowerShell and be amazed. :)
Get-WmiObject Win32_Processor
I've recently installed the latest 64bit Windows 10 technical preview on a new computer running a gen 5 Intel processer with 6 cores and hyperthreading, SSD raid array and nVidia graphics card and the performance appears to be suboptimal. It requires DEP on by default, minimum RAM and other weirdness like specifying the type of cpu name (which I set to "core2duo") just to install but does allow all the usual hardware acceleration. I assigned several CPUs and a good chunk of DDR4 RAM to it with 16GB of hard drive space.
Running next to my trusty virtual XP windows 10 is a dog, even with all the settings for performance switched on. The integrated "search my computer and Internet" is painfully slow and the start button brings up this wacky osd box with embedded "metro style" elements. If you click a couple of times as it loads (can take any random amount of time) it doesn't ever appear again. I suppose this is a bug that will be fixed, but the whole thing feels slow to respond (including the mouse pointer and drag+drop snappiness). Some of this seems to be due to clunky design rather than the optimization of the codebase.
The only thing I can say is quicker is the startup and shutdown. I suppose the new "Spartan" thing loads alright, but I'm not a fan.
we used to measure compute performance in flops or #tx/second, alas performance to get real work done. Nowadays youngsters seem to measure animation smoothness when dragging around windows. O tempora o mores!
The writer is saying Apple came out with a MacBook that cannot smoothly run the OS that was preinstalled on it?
Frankly, I can understand if it was a 4 year old laptop with the latest OS, but Apple's usually pretty good about integration. Can anyone else verify that the latest MacBook that OS animations aren't smooth?
Help! I'm a slashdot refugee.
The pessimist in me says "That's ok. MS has plent of time to screw it up before release."
The realist in me says "You paid too much for the Windows laptop."
Isn't the Apple motto "It just works"? Not it works well, or quickly.
The optimist in me is still sleeping.
I refuse to sign
Windows 10 on a 12 inch MacBook? Can't work, it's obviously designed for a 10 inch MacBook.
Granted, for many users, speed matters. But, here are some other concerns.
1) The Registry File. Enough said.
2) Under OS X, open any kind of file in any kind of editor. Go back to the Finder window, rename the file, move it to a different folder no problem. Can't be done under Windows. Half the time, even after you close the file (not the editor app), the app fails to 'release' the lock and you STILL can't rename the file.
3) None of Microsoft's pseudo-shell implementations come close to bash/csh/ksh in useability.
For most users, most of the time spent on a computer is in dealing with the UI/GUI/UX (whatever you want to call it). That's what matters; raw speed of calculation is the primary need of a rather small subset of users (who probably buy time on a cluster node :-) )
https://app.box.com/WitthoftResume Code: https://github.com/cellocgw
I'm not amazed. This reeks of the Microsoft approach.
- WMI is an acronym. Why is it in CamelCase except to make it the hard-to-guess impossible-to-guess? ...)). Is it because you have a numpty language or that precedence rules are hard?
- The processor is physically in my system, why is the parameter conflating "processor" (an element of an enumeration of physical devices I might want to task about) with an element of a separate enumeration (Win32 and other arbitrary subsystem layers/APIs)?
- Why does Get-WmiObject exist as an API into a WMI specific factory rather than as a general call to (Get-Object (WMI,
Ohhhh, old Slashdot - some things never change. Upcoming Windows release and "ohh so much true this Windows version is a best" posts, for one example. Sorry, people, Windows 10 is just rehashed Windows 8.1, with quite a few subsystems optimized. It is just another Windows. No, it won't convince people to switch. It merely will make Windows fans less frantic about not knowing what to do.
user@ubuntubox:~$ stfu This server is going down for shutdown NOW!
CamelCase and every numpty that pushes it should die in a fire.
Oh, so now operating system are judged by how smooth their animations look? Shame on you Slashdot!
I am pretty sure it will blow Windows 10 out of the water and you won't have to do work to install all the extras (assuming you like free software). If someone gives me a MacBook, I'm happy to run this experiment ;-)
Probably because it supports a lot of .Net functionality.
Tried that but wasn't able to get something useful from "cat /proc/cpuinfo".
I had exactly that experience! Though mine was on Linux and was one of the things that pushed me to *BSD. An unstable text-based format that varies between architectures and between kernel versions turns out to be a piss-poor way of getting information from the kernel.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
clearly you're not a programmer or tech person in any way. When you type for a living, typing thisIsAName is much easier to type than this-is-a-name. Typing the dashed version just now, I had to delete 2 equals signs, no screw ups in the camel case version.
It has long appeared to me that all the best talent at Cupertino is being assigned to work on iOS, and OSX is suffering as a result.
One upon a time, a new MacOSX release meant you might need to put more RAM in the box, but even some seven-year-old piece of hardware would go faster, and there would be fewer bugs or crashes. [Consider a late G3 iMac, upgraded all the way from Public Beta to Tiger.] These days, you put more RAM in (if you can if you have a machine old enough that Apple didn't solder all the memory in during manufacture) just to make it less sluggish.
Drawing performance seems especially poor, which makes me wonder: if I bought a top-end top-of-the-range Mac Pro, would it be any better at being a desktop computer than what I have now? I'm not sure it would.
As a person who hates Windows, I will admit that Microsoft has made a lot of progress in making Windows, especially since Windows 8, run faster. But one thing I have also noticed is that the performance of nearly any Windows machine seems to degrade much, much more over time than either OSX or Linux. Also, certain Windows tasks, most notably Windows Update, are always slow as molasses. I have watched Windows Update on prior versions sit there at downloading 0% for about 10 minutes before actually starting to download the update. That is just stupid. However, viruses are the number one reason to avoid Windows. The viruses I try to remove from people's Windows systems are getting worse and worse. When I get Mac jobs, they are far more fun because it is usually figuring out how to do xyz task instead of just trying to get the system to boot up properly.
Reminds of another study some years ago where WIndows 7 was found to be more secure out of the box than OS X was at the time, or for that matter likely still is.
Maybe there's a place but I never seem to see any info on who is doing the in house OS X coding, the age line, would be interesting to see.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
Funny, that didn't work for me on Solaris, IRIX, or OS X either (you know, all real UNIX systems).
I'm starting to think GNU is the problem with "GNU/Linux" these days.
- Why does Get-WmiObject exist as an API into a WMI specific factory rather than as a general call to (Get-Object (WMI, ...)). Is it because you have a numpty language or that precedence rules are hard?
You could as well ask why there are dpkg, apt-get and aptitude, when there could be a single command that handles it all.
It starts at the top. There's a reason why those things didn't happen when Ballmer was in charge.
I have a MacBook Pro Retina (Mid 2012) with 8GB RAM and 256GB Flash storage. OS is 10.10.3.
I'm running Windows 10 inside of Fusion. It does seem very snappy. It is much quicker than XP or 8.1 on the same host.
Regardless, OSx is my prefered OS, Ubuntu my preferred guest VM, and Amazon Workspaces for my Windows compute.
I think of these all as tools to get jobs done. My favorite tool being that old Commodore 64 which prestigiously sits in my office.
we used to measure compute performance in flops or #tx/second, alas performance to get real work done.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears you're assuming that "real work" means batch processing. Dragging a window around is a test of the responsiveness of an operating system's event handling and graphics components, which are correlated with the responsiveness of gaming and multimedia production applications. It's in fact a form of the "#tx/second" you mention, as each frame is the result of a "move window object to these coordinates" transaction.
I never found an issue with Windows running native on a Mac. My only issues with Windows on a Mac has been reduced battery life vs OS X on same hardware,
BootCamp has never had the best drivers for power management. I get that Apple is not trying too hard to support running Windows on their hardware, The virtual machines are acceptable for 2D and minimal needs for Windows. But if you have a Macbook Air or Macbook your probably not going to have the ideal RAM amount for a good VM experience. I also as a side note bought a HP Stream 11 Which has even worse hardware then a Macbook 12" but does run Windows 10 better then Windows 8.1. However even though Windows 10 has tweaked its performance, my Stream's small SSD is pretty much useless after installing Windows 10. Think I had around 4GB to run apps and programs. I ended up with Ubuntu just because it works better and has way less footprint on small drive.
On my MBPro laptop, the difference between Elder Scrolls on-line Win7 vs. OSX10.10 is staggering 10 fps. For Windows7.
That's not how Windows works, it's not running a continuous render-loop like a game.
If you really needed smooth animation and graphics, Apple would tell you that was important and then you would have it. In the meantime, this is clearly not important. Remember it's much more important to be stylish and cool than effective and efficient.
That is the Trouble with Gribbles.
Respect the Constitution
You can purchase CodeWeavers CrossOver at 25% off with promo code ( WEAVEME ) and be Microsoft free once again...
Hah. Learn to use the tools that are available in the system.
The Linux hipsters aren't smart enough to do that.
Man. I'll bet DOS just FLIES on it. Maybe because it isn't message driven.
While OS X may be in need of another tuning, it's not designed so that you can brag to your buddies about benchmark numbers. It's designed to be fairly cohesive and self consistent [yeah yeah - citation needed]. If you wonder what I mean by that, let me just say that I have no fucking idea what the "refresh" shortcut is for the Finder. And the only time I use it in the browser is to actually reload a page. When something happens in the file system, everything gets updated. If I have a file open in an application and I rename the file from elsewhere or move it, the changes are reflected in the app immediately (well, at least in Preview because I tend to do that with PDFs a lot - I suppose I should try that with something other than Preview but not Word - Office still reeks of Windows port). If Safari has an issue with the network because I'm dicking with the WiFi, the return of network notification causes Safari to reattempt the connection [to be fair, IE 11 seems to do this now - and may have prior].
So my long winded point is that there's a lot going on under the hood when it's running to make the interface integrate well. I was surprised that Win10 Tech Preview runs on my Dell i5 laptop with similar performance to Win7, but there's also a lot of things that aren't running or possibly implemented yet. I think the true test will be Win10 SP1. You know, the one that always doubles the base requirements and brings the system to its knees.
So he did the needful?
Kindly?
Clearly you are a shit programmer.
I am highly paid. I don't "type" for a living, I create software, not rambling MassiveJavaPrograms ThatHaveToUseCamelCaseBecauseWeCantWriteShitOurselves And NeedToImportMultiMegabytePackagesFromAllOverThePlace.
Up until Windows 8 I would say that OSX seemed a bit faster and smoother. I've got an old iMac (circa 2007). It has 4GB of RAM and a 256GB SSD. When I run OSX it feels slow and sluggish. I have it dual booted with Windows 8 and Windows, much to my surprise, runs much faster. It consistently uses 1.5 - 2 GB of memory. It never crashes.
It runs well enough that it is my everyday home office computer. I can do everything on it that I need. Granted, most of what I do involves connecting via Remote Desktop to someone else's server so I don't need a lot of local horsepower. But it's good enough that I can't justify buying a new rig.
20 years ago I was impressed when I was first able to move entire windows around the screen in real-time on a Pentium 90mhz machine running NT 3.5.1.
Today I half heartedly expect articles to talk about the responsiveness of calculator applications.
Any tips how to tweak Windows settings for non-retina applications? At work I have some Windows apps that I occasionally use from a Mac at home via VPN. They have worked OK although somewhat sluggishly on my late-2009 4GB Mac mini via Win 7/VMware. We recently got mid-2014 MBP so I tried Win 8 via Boot Camp but the initial experience was very bad: Win 8 Remote desktop client app's text & icons are way too tiny. One PACS client's image area is OK but the user interface elements are way too big so they fill almost the whole screen leaving only a small area for the images. The other PACS client severely crops its display area. It behaves slightly better if I adjust its window smaller but it is still unusable. I tried to tweak the "Make Text and other (Desktop?) items larger or smaller" and tweaked the resolution down to 1980x1080 but the results were not satisfactory. Any suggestions? Is Win 10 any better with Boot Camp?
I am talking of case of Windows train wreak of a GUI. Who cares if something that is basically unusable is faster? My mother went from XP to Windows 8 when she got her new computer and she is calling me in tears because of the illogical and confusing GUI. Why no buttons? Why sometimes and some time alt-f4 to back out? Why the godawful Metro that tries to force its way down the users throat and has no logical way back? Why no clear buttons? Why no clear entry boxes?
Is a oz of looks REALLY worth a lb of performance? (especially when the looks are shitty)... I'm getting her a Mac, I hate seeing my mother cry...
If this is true, then in the long run it's good news for Mac users - it will spur Apple on to make OS X better. That's what competition is good for - just as Windows users are now reaping the rewards of greater Mac market share in having Windows get better.
I have never understood why Windows users wanted to "win" by having all competition sink without trace, nor Mac users for that matter. If there's only one game in town, why would anyone ever want to make it any better? Healthier for everyone if there are at least 2 viable systems, preferably 3 or 4.
Only at first. Once windows gets crudded up(3. Months. ) it will slow down. The Mac will still be just as fast. The tortoise wins the race.
Fanboys: Rush to say 'this time it won't happen'- take your c drive and go home. You're STILL DOS based.
Problem childhood?
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
I like Windows for Games, Apple for Graphic Arts, Linux for tinkering. Each OS has it's own pool of hardware it's been tested to work with, and each OS coder's have their own priorities, and deadlines. There's no perfect OS that does everything well "out of the box", it all depends on your needs, perspective, and budget. That said "dual booting" or booting an OS from an external drive are good, if not perfect alternatives. Just my 2ct's. :)
Apple specialize in hardware. Microsoft specialize in software. Is it really surprising that when you combine Microsoft's software with Apple's hardware you get something that performs well?
(My own experience with Mac hardware - as an IT professional in an education environment - is that it was better than the bulk of PC manufacturers, but not as good as the best. But that was years ago, and even then may have been biased by budgetary constraints.)
You could, but it's irrelevant with respect to what I asked about a single scripting language which is produced by a vendor which notoriously owns the entire OS.