Gates, Zuckerberg Promising Same Jobs To US Kids and Foreign H-1B Workers?

theodp writes: Over at the Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg-bankrolled Code.org, they're using the number of open computing jobs in each state to convince parents of the need to expand K-12 CS offerings so their kids can fill those jobs. Sounds good, right? But at the same time, the Gates and Zuckerberg-bankrolled FWD.org PAC has taken to Twitter, using the number of open "STEM" jobs in each state to convince politicians of the need to expand the number of H-1B visas so foreign workers can fill those jobs. While the goal of Microsoft's 'two-pronged' National Talent Strategy is to kill two birds [K-12 CS education and H-1B visas] with one crisis, is it fair for organizations backed by many of the same wealthy individuals to essentially promise the same jobs to U.S. kids and foreign H-1B workers?

Comments

heh

[bigCstyle]

Yeah, more stem workers = lower pay (supply and demand) I am sure this is all completely legit

Re:heh

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh brother! economist = phrenologist

On the other hand maybe you do understand that 'supply and demand' is a mythical beast, and prices are set arbitrarily by the commodities brokers.

Re:heh

[Antique Geekmeister]

> That is, increasing supply lowers prices but it also increases volume, also for labor.

Except when it doesn't. "Supply increases volume" only when then suppliers _believe_ that there is a profit available, and excess supply often saturates the market. Otherwise, all the empty storefronts I see on one block on my way to work would be filled with active hair salons, unlike the three competing salons on that block that are all going out of business.

Re: heh

[AK Marc]

Nope. Much like supply and demand doesn't much affect gasoline and milk, it also doesn't greatly impact jobs. This is so common there's even a term for it. Inelastic demand. What happens with many inelastic goods is not changes in demand, but removal of demand. When you raise milk by 5%, people still buy about the same amount. But if you raise the price by 500%, people will buy soy milk, or otherwise replace the good with one that's sufficiently similar.

The same happens in jobs. People will move (though not nearly enough to satisfy most models), and employers will move. Jobs will be ended, and new jobs created. The changing of the job market will come before the supply and demand moves the job that much. Jobs will never pay below minimum wage, and never above their value for the company (excepting management). So supply and demand can't fully define the market for jobs.

Theo, about your rhetoric

[Anonymous Coward]

The specific jobs that are listed today won't actually be there by the time the 10 and 12-year old American kids graduate from college. By that time, it could be that even the technical skill sets employers are hiring for will be different.

They were hoping you'd be bright enough to figure that out.

Maybe Gates and Zuck are saying, "Look, American companies have all these IT jobs they've been trying to fill, preferably on US soil. We need more talent! Homegrown talent would be great, otherwise, we'll need to bring them in from outside."

Re:Theo, about your rhetoric

[Anonymous Coward]

Gates and Zuckerberg do not care where their workers come from but how much they cost as they run businesses and not charities. In fact it is in their best interest to 1. train domestic talent 2. import foreign workers 3. domestic salaries are now depressed 4. profit.

Neither Gates nor Zuckerberg got rich and where they are by working for someone. Certainly not working for someone in slaverITy.

Re:Its the same issue either way

[Anonymous Coward]

"The issue is lack of skilled workers"...

You forgot to follow that with ..."that are willing to work for the peanuts I want to pay them."

Re:Gates and Zuckerbergs Vision for America

[Njorthbiatr]

It's strange that businesses oppose raising wages. It's like the prisoner's dilemma and everyone wants to screw everyone else over.

Look, you'll pad profits for a short while (maybe), but in the long run it's detrimental to the entire economy since the bulk of the population ends up with less spending power. If corporations were forced to pay their workers fair rates everyone would benefit.

Re:H1-Bs rock

[Opportunist]

You mean destroy more jobs.

Re:Gates and Zuckerbergs Vision for America

[Opportunist]

By that time he's had his stay, pumped the stock value and received his golden parachute. Why should he give a fuck about anything you mentioned?

Re:I always wondered about that

[Anonymous Coward]

I wouldn't worry. The truth is that you can't train someone to have an aptitude for something. There's a strong undercurrent of positivism in modern educational dogma: "You can be anything you want!" The sad truth is: no you can't. Everyone has certain aptitudes and certain potential. The current initiatives like code.org will turn out people who can put a few things together, follow recipes they find online, etc. But at the end of the day, it won't increase the number of people who have an aptitude to excel in the field. Also, there's the interest factor. Some people consider software development tedious and boring. These initiatives won't change that.

Re:Gates and Zuckerbergs Vision for America

[serviscope_minor]

So no, it is not wrong for these companies to want H1B employees.

Yeah it is because it's unethical. I want cheaper workers, but I'm not going to sell my ever living soul to get them.

Re:Gates and Zuckerbergs Vision for America

[I4ko]

No, the real problem is "right to work" states and two week notice. Make it like Europe - labour code, mandatory no-term (infinite term) contracts, 3 months notice, and needing a good reason to fire someone and most of it will just fall into place nicely. And one more thing - stop offering annual wage before taxes, only negotiate on net money coming to employee's account monthly.