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Oculus Founder Hit With Lawsuit

An anonymous reader writes: Palmer Luckey, founder of VR headset-maker Oculus, has been sued by a company accusing him of taking their confidential information and passing it off as his own. Total Recall Technologies, based in Hawaii, claims it hired Luckey in 2011 to build a head-mounted display. Part of that employment involved Luckey signing a confidentiality agreement. In August, 2012, Luckey launched a Kickstarter campaign for the Oculus Rift headset, and Facebook bought his company last year for $2 billion. TRT is seeking compensatory and punitive damages (PDF).

122 comments

  1. What? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You'd think they might have thought about suing him, oh I don't know, when everyone was talking about the facebook buyout?

    Why wait an extra few years?

    1. Re:What? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      To let him further develop it to a finished product without having to pay the usual costs, then reap the rewards after it's ready.

    2. Re:What? by jtownatpunk.net · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Why would they sue him before he got the money? That would be pretty stupid.

    3. Re:What? by ArcadeMan · · Score: 1

      Isn't there laws that a lawsuit has to happen within a given time frame? Especially in cases like this one where facts have been all over the news for a very long time?

    4. Re:What? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, but it's only been 3 years since the Kickstarter campaign. It doesn't matter how fast social media flows. If Total Recall hired him for head-mounted tech they they'll have a strong case.

    5. Re:What? by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      In Hawaii, the statute of limitations for a lawsuit over a written or oral contract appears to be 6 years. In California, where I'm guessing Luckey resides, it appears to be 4 years for a written contract, and 2 for an oral one. (Source: http://www.nolo.com/legal-ency...)

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    6. Re:What? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because otherwise it would give him time to spend it or hide it.

    7. Re:What? by Richard_at_work · · Score: 2

      Because there might have been other things going on behind the scenes that are yet to come to light? Perhaps this filing is just the latest action in a series, most of which happened in private between the parties? Not everyone launches into a lawsuit without trying other redress first - especially if contract cases are likely to be thrown out if lesser mediations have been skipped in the first place.

    8. Re:What? by Kjella · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Not really. I believe there is a clean hands doctrine that says if your inaction has amplified the harm then you might not get relief for that. For example if you live in the downstairs apartment and notice water is leaking from the upstairs apartment but don't do anything to stop it or limit the damage because you'd rather get the insurance money you can get cut short. It's a lot trickier with an IP issue, is it a lump transfer or an ongoing violation but I think it has most the characteristics of the former where you take a half-finished product and hand it to someone else to finish. In that case there's no harm in delaying apart from the statute of limitations.

      Let's say I'm in an accident with you, but it seems at first to not be a big deal and I don't sue for damages. However it turns out it won't heal properly and I lose a lot of money and decide to sue anyway. Am I too late? No, those costs aren't caused by the delay, they'd come no matter what and it won't count against me. Of course I'm not in the US, there you find the nearest ambulance chaser and sue for $millions, unless it was a hobo that hurt you.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    9. Re:What? by AgNO3 · · Score: 2

      You have no clue to what legal happening have occurred before they filed the suit. There are usually months and sometimes years of legal negotiations and arbitrations in some cases long before a lawsuit is filed officially.

      --
      OMG Ponies!!! with Glitter!!!! I miss Pink :-(
    10. Re:What? by AgNO3 · · Score: 1

      comment theif. hahah I just posted the same thing.

      --
      OMG Ponies!!! with Glitter!!!! I miss Pink :-(
    11. Re:What? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's probably why they decided to sue now, their four years are almost up.

    12. Re:What? by FranTaylor · · Score: 1

      Let's say I'm in an accident with you, but it seems at first to not be a big deal and I don't sue for damages. However it turns out it won't heal properly and I lose a lot of money and decide to sue anyway. Am I too late? No

      YES, you are too late, there are very strict time limits for timely filing of automobile liability insurance claims. If you don't make claims of injury promptly, you get nothing.

    13. Re:What? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except he posted this an hour and a half before you did. Also it's spelled "thief".

    14. Re:What? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The statute of limitations applies from then the contract was signed, not from when the Kickstarter went up, dumbass.

    15. Re:What? by penix1 · · Score: 1

      No it doesn't dumbass... It starts from the violation of contract. Otherwise you have nothing to sue over.

      From Wikipedia:

      Statutes of limitations are written laws passed by a legislative body in common law systems to set the maximum time after an event when legal proceedings may be initiated.

      Emphasis added.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S...

      --
      This is a sig. This is only a sig. Had this been an actual sig you would have been informed where to tune for more sigs.
    16. Re: What? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You lead a disappointing life, don't you...

    17. Re:What? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your analogy is flawed, there aren't any situations where you would be damaged severely enough to not heal properly and then promptly NOT claim against the other person's third party insurance.

    18. Re:What? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because that's how the legal process works. It's all about money.

      Say for example 2 people build an idea, software, device or otherwise. One of those people break away and take the idea from the first company created and it flops. Well where are the punitive damages? "The idea" must have been crappy to begin with. And therefore not possible to be perused legally. I.E Getting a court to hear about a worthless idea would be thrown out. But steal an idea that's worth millions/billions? you have damages and you then have a reason to sue. Make sense?

  2. Re:I'M ROYAL by CaptnZilog · · Score: 4, Funny

    Are you feeling Luckey, PUNK?

  3. So Long? by Murdoch5 · · Score: 1

    If this is true, why didn't he get hit with a law suit earlier?

    1. Re:So Long? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      If this is true, why didn't he get hit with a law suit earlier?

      It wasn't enough to pay the lawyers.

    2. Re:So Long? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      After the Ceglia lawsuit, the law firm probably had to do a lot more due diligence before filing.

    3. Re: So Long? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They had to consult with Kuato. You know how long that can take...

  4. Mark Zuckerburg by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Kind of Ironic that Zuckerburg got a similar lawsuit after facebook became popular and now FB owns Oculus

    1. Re: Mark Zuckerburg by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lawyers are going to make a killing

    2. Re:Mark Zuckerburg by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Please explain how this is irony.

    3. Re:Mark Zuckerburg by thegarbz · · Score: 4, Funny

      It's like rain on a wedding day.

    4. Re:Mark Zuckerburg by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's ironic how many people think they understand what irony means but don't.

    5. Re:Mark Zuckerburg by ClickOnThis · · Score: 2

      It's like rain on a wedding day.

      Which is not ironic. Unless you're marrying the weatherman, and he set the date.

      --
      If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
    6. Re:Mark Zuckerburg by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Them being wrong isn't ironic.
      You calling that ironic and being wrong, is.

    7. Re:Mark Zuckerburg by aardvarkjoe · · Score: 1

      It's really hard and gets rusty in the rain?

      --

      How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
    8. Re:Mark Zuckerburg by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.

      And then there would be no reason for free rides.

    9. Re:Mark Zuckerburg by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      It's like rain on a wedding day.

      Which is not ironic.

      Not sure if I should write "no kidding", or simply go with the traditional "whoosh".

    10. Re:Mark Zuckerburg by ClickOnThis · · Score: 1

      No, I got it. I just wanted an excuse to provide the link to Ed Byrne's monologue.

      --
      If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
    11. Re:Mark Zuckerburg by phantomfive · · Score: 1
      Definition of irony:

      a state of affairs or an event that seems deliberately contrary to what one expects and is often amusing as a result.

      Your wedding is supposed to be the happiest day of your life. If this picture doesn't make you smile at least a little, then you take life too seriously.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    12. Re:Mark Zuckerburg by smallfries · · Score: 1

      I'll take that starter for 5pts.

      It would appear that the lawsuit has been enabled because of the acquisition of the company by a man who has a history of beating off such lawsuits.

      --
      Slashdot: where don knuth is an idiot because he cant grasp the awesome power of php
    13. Re:Mark Zuckerburg by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't expect gloriously good weather on holidays or other occasions I set just by the earth miraculously obeying my say so and intentions.

    14. Re:Mark Zuckerburg by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Ahhh rightio, Carry on then, it was quite a satisfying read :-)

    15. Re:Mark Zuckerburg by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your wedding is supposed to be the happiest day of your life, if you are a religious nutjob.

      FTFY

      And yes, that picture is funny because it features a couple of costumed mooks getting drenched.

    16. Re:Mark Zuckerburg by ultranova · · Score: 1

      Definition of irony:

      a state of affairs or an event that seems deliberately contrary to what one expects and is often amusing as a result.

      But if you're aware of the concept of irony, and people find it amusing, and that people are fond of posting things they find amusing, this logically means that you're expecting something unexpected, which thus is not unexpected, thus nothing can be ironic to one who knows of irony, not even this very fact.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    17. Re:Mark Zuckerburg by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Fortunately there's more than one definition of irony.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    18. Re:Mark Zuckerburg by Half-pint+HAL · · Score: 1

      Your wedding is supposed to be the happiest day of your life, if you are a religious nutjob.

      FTFY

      And yes, that picture is funny because it features a couple of costumed mooks getting drenched.

      You clearly have never met a woman. Wedding fever is probably even worse among the non-believers than religious people.

      --
      Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
    19. Re:Mark Zuckerburg by Half-pint+HAL · · Score: 1

      Ironic that you can't cite even one, though...

      --
      Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
    20. Re:Mark Zuckerburg by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      What's the matter, you can't use a dictionary?

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    21. Re:Mark Zuckerburg by HiThere · · Score: 1

      We not only got rain, but hail. It worked out fine.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    22. Re:Mark Zuckerburg by Half-pint+HAL · · Score: 1

      Should I have hashtagged my last post #joke for you...?

      --
      Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
    23. Re:Mark Zuckerburg by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      You asked me to give a citation. I'm not going to cite something that every half-pint can figure out by looking in a dictionary. Citations are for things that are hard to find.

      The ironic thing is I actually did quote verbatim one of the definitions, but you didn't read it.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    24. Re:Mark Zuckerburg by StikyPad · · Score: 1

      Well then, it's like a traffic jam when you're already late.

    25. Re:Mark Zuckerburg by Half-pint+HAL · · Score: 1

      I hadn't noticed that you were the one in the chain who had given a definition. I was just throwing out a quick-fire line about irony. Unfortunately I can't see anything ironic in the subsequent exchange to make a further quip about.

      --
      Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
  5. Butt hurt... by drew_92123 · · Score: 1

    Sounds like they're a little butt hurt because their product... well, I've never heard of it.

    A confidentiality agreement is NOT a non-compete agreement which I doubt they could really enforce anyway since a lot of states refuse to recognize them.

    As long as he didn't steal anything from them or give out their internal secrets nothing will come of this and he may even get them to cover his legal expenses in the end. I'd bet $5 that this lawsuit is more about getting their name heard than anything else.

    1. Re:Butt hurt... by ArcadeMan · · Score: 1

      Sounds like they're a little butt hurt because their product... well, I've never heard of it.

      Wow, really?

      Their name is Total Recall Technologies. I've heard about them decades ago.

    2. Re:Butt hurt... by rmdingler · · Score: 1

      Sounds like they're a little butt hurt because their product... well, I've never heard of it.

      Wow, really?

      Their name is Total Recall Technologies. I've heard about them decades ago.

      Right. After they borrowed their very name from some prior art, it seems a bit like the pot calling the kettle a gateway kitchen accessory.

      To be fair, (FTA), Senior Luckey was hired by the plaintiff to build a head-mounted display, which is seemingly word-for-word the letter of his Kickstarter.

      --
      Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

      Ernest Hemingway

    3. Re:Butt hurt... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2

      Their name is Total Recall Technologies. I've heard about them decades ago

      And there have been references to goggles or headsets that provide virtual reality since at least the 1930's, so if you're going to sue someone for taking your idea, you might want to make sure it wasn't someone's idea since way before you were born.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    4. Re:Butt hurt... by Half-pint+HAL · · Score: 1

      A confidentiality agreement is NOT a non-compete agreement which I doubt they could really enforce anyway since a lot of states refuse to recognize them.

      Non-competes are legally unenforceable when they stop you realistically changing jobs within your field. Things get murkier when your new employer isn't in that field already, and you're the one that brings the into it. It's murkier still when your new employer is YOU. This isn't a question of non-compete, it's a question of trade secrets, because when the employee is working from the ground up, his prior knowledge is based entirely on the previous employer's project, whereas when there's a partly-built product to work on, there's already a seed that will take the development of the product away from the old employers device.

      --
      Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
    5. Re:Butt hurt... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What a load of shit.

      Unless your job sucks, you are taking a ton of what you learned with you.

      If I worked for MS on their kernel and quit, and started up my own OS company they can't do jack or shit unless I actually violated copyright law(took code with me) or violated one of their bullshit patents.

  6. Re:Shrek is love by ArcadeMan · · Score: 0

    And life is like a cake.

  7. A stolen idea, in my corporate acquisition? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ah... Okay, all of a sudden the Facebook acquisition makes perfect sense. Mark Zuckerburg is just buying into projects he can relate to.

    1. Re:A stolen idea, in my corporate acquisition? by mark-t · · Score: 1

      If this guy really used Total Recall's confidential IP, which I'm not saying necessarily happened, but it seems like it may be possible, then Facebook's acquisition would be void... and they could sue the person they bought it from for no less than every single cent that they spent buying it out, probably with interest, and punative damages thrown in for good measure.

      This company is working within what I understand is the legally permissable 5-year limitation on NDA's in the high technology industry (albeit only just barely), so if OR is really based on misappropriated IP from that company, then Facebook is no more authorized to use the tech without Total Recall's permission than this guy was authorized to sell it.

    2. Re:A stolen idea, in my corporate acquisition? by FranTaylor · · Score: 1

      If this guy really used Total Recall's confidential IP

      There is NO "confidential IP" anywhere in this type of display. This exact same technology has been implemented over and over again for decades. Any patents have expired a long time ago. You can write contracts all day long that assert "IP" but they are meaningless unless there is some sort of novelty. Perhaps you can pick up an old copy of "Mondo 2000" or "Wired" and you will see the exact same type of heads up display being used in the 1990s.

  8. TL;DR version by sjames · · Score: 3, Insightful

    He didn't give hinself shock treatment to erase his memory of the time he worked with us and he failed to deny that he existed during the years of 2011 and 2012. Even though he didn't steal our IP (or we would have sued for that), we want to sue anyway because we fumbled the future and he didn't!

    1. Re:TL;DR version by E-Rock · · Score: 4, Insightful

      We consulted our lawyers, and they assure us that it'll be cheaper for them to pay us off than fight us, so free money!

    2. Re:TL;DR version by jandrese · · Score: 2

      Didn't John Carmack get sued for basically the same reason? Failing to give himself a brain wipe after leaving Bethesda?

      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
  9. Who Is Total Recall Technologies? by Cycloid+Torus · · Score: 1

    I googled the life out of this and could not find them. I did find a company by that name in Panaji, Goa, India, but I do not see how they may be related. I'm puzzled.

    --
    Lost in space at an early age. Survived the vacuum. Now rebuilding castle in air.
    1. Re:Who Is Total Recall Technologies? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      I googled the life out of this and could not find them. I did find a company by that name in Panaji, Goa, India, but I do not see how they may be related. I'm puzzled.

      But they have a YouTube video, so clearly this is all on the up and up.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    2. Re:Who Is Total Recall Technologies? by Cycloid+Torus · · Score: 1

      Made me laugh. Funny a second time! I loved the video - classic.... very very classic. Thanks.

      --
      Lost in space at an early age. Survived the vacuum. Now rebuilding castle in air.
  10. did the tech exist in 2010-12? by mOzone · · Score: 1

    Did the 3d power or the custom display tech required for HTC/oculus exist in 2010-2012? I mean head mount displays with len's been around but i dont think any of them worked worth a crap. i dont believe they have a leg to stand on seeing how both oculus/valve had some of the best of the best work on there setups just not one person

    1. Re:did the tech exist in 2010-12? by geoskd · · Score: 1

      Did the 3d power or the custom display tech required for HTC/oculus exist in 2010-2012?

      In a word: Yes

      --
      I wish I had a good sig, but all the good ones are copyrighted
    2. Re:did the tech exist in 2010-12? by Khyber · · Score: 1

      Yes. I had head-mounted dual-screen (640x480) displays for gaming back in the days of the GeForce 5 and 6.

      Horrible contrast ratio (shit TFT LCDs) but great for watching porno DVDs without anyone else watching.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    3. Re:did the tech exist in 2010-12? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      of course, everyone was also watching what you were doing with your hands, without you knowing

    4. Re:did the tech exist in 2010-12? by sbaker · · Score: 1

      HMD's have been around since LONG before there were 3D graphics on the PC at all. They'd been used (for example) on military flight simulator back when you'd need a million dollars of mainframe hardware to generate a 3D image. I very much doubt that any of this tech is actually new. Probably someone like Evans & Sutherland were the first to do it - and they had 3D graphics back in the late 1970's. I doubt that much of the general concept is still patentable - so this argument is probably over some kind of small feature.

      --
      www.sjbaker.org
    5. Re:did the tech exist in 2010-12? by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      it's just a high resolution phone screen and two lenses. and gyro/accel chips(which existed as well)

      the tech to do it existed most certainly. high resolution displays small/big enough cheaply? nope. not even for the rift1.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    6. Re:did the tech exist in 2010-12? by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      Did the 3d power or the custom display tech required for HTC/oculus exist in 2010-2012? I mean head mount displays with len's been around but I dont think any of them worked worth a crap.

      Very often the adoption of a novel technology has more to do with the caprice of companies and organisations than the technical capabilities. I first used a touch-screen device in 1989 which was an add-on for standard 14in (S)VGA monitors priced at around $200. It interfaced with the computer through an RS-232 connection, so required no exotic hardware in the host PC. And the drivers were stable and mature, both for Windows and it's native Xenix/ Unix. Obviously no Linux drivers because this was while Linus was still potty-training. What killed it (because we all loved it) was that MS refused to put the drivers into the standard release of Windows 3 or 3.11 which were current at that time.

      8-9 years later I was using a touch screen on my palm-top, a Psion 5, where it was also stable and reliable. Several years later, mobile phones with touch screens started to come out, and that is when they reached market awareness.

      Someone will probably come back and tell us of a touch-screen Air-Traffic display that they used in 1970. Much earlier than that would be stretching credulity. A bit.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
  11. It's hard out there for a patent troll by PopeRatzo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Patent trolls are like pimps without the cool clothes and '72 Riviera with fur-lined windows.

    They both make their money off other people's work.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
    1. Re:It's hard out there for a patent troll by retchdog · · Score: 1

      what patent troll? in fact, what patents?

      the article says he's being sued for fraud and breach of contract (whatever the merits of that may be). this seems to be a matter of trade secrets, which is basically the opposite of patents.

      --
      "They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
    2. Re:It's hard out there for a patent troll by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      the article says he's being sued for fraud and breach of contract

      And they waited until the Oculus Rift is ready for release to file suit.

      This is patent trolling by another name. They're trying to make money off someone else's work.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    3. Re:It's hard out there for a patent troll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the article says he's being sued for fraud and breach of contract

      And they waited until the Oculus Rift is ready for release to file suit.

      This is patent trolling by another name. They're trying to make money off someone else's work.

      As another poster had already mentioned, what's the point of sue *before* he got the money?

      So, what would *you* do if someone breached a contract with your company? Sue them while they don't have the money, and thus waste your money and time while getting nothing back? Or sue them when they got enough money to pay to you? Or, even better, at the time when they have the most incentive to settle and not fight you in court?

      If I took a program you wrote, repackage and sell it and make boatloads of money, would you NOT sue me simply because the next version of the stolen program is just ready for release? Or would you sue me before I made the money and thus ensuring you would get nothing for the time/effort your spent on the suit?

      Why should someone automatically get an immunity against lawsuit just because their product is ready for release?

    4. Re:It's hard out there for a patent troll by retchdog · · Score: 0

      So we agree that it's not patent trolling. Great.

      You can keep on making up whatever justifications you want in order to keep swaying with the popular opinion.

      --
      "They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
    5. Re:It's hard out there for a patent troll by mr_mischief · · Score: 1

      Google "mitigation of damages". You're supposed to stop the violation as soon as it has caused you harm. A party can't wait for greater harm to come to them in hopes of a bigger payout. That's not what the courts are for.

  12. If the stuff was really confidential.... by mark-t · · Score: 1

    ... then Facebook is not really permitted to freely use that technology either, and they would have a case against the person they bought it from as well. Certainly they would at least be entitled to any monies they had already given the founder for rights to Occulus Rift, and punative damages could even be applicable.

    Total Recall could, of course, license the tech to Facebook, and probably make a tidy profit while doing so.

    1. Re:If the stuff was really confidential.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      then Facebook is not really permitted to freely use that technology either

      That's not true. Anyone is permitted to use any technology that isn't illegal, patented, or copyrighted. Confidential means X can't tell Y, but if X tells Y, Y is free to use it. X can be sued for violating a confidentiality agreement, but Y can't be sued for....what, exactly? They didn't agree not to violate confidentiality. The stuff they're using isn't protected intellectual property. They're free to use it.

    2. Re:If the stuff was really confidential.... by mark-t · · Score: 1

      Y can't be sued for anything if they do not know that it was originally confidential, but they *CAN* be sued for using said information after they have learned that it was misappropriated, which they could learn very shortly afterwards. Sort of like how you can't be prosecuted for buying stolen merchandise from someone else if you didn't realize that it was stolen, but you aren't allowed to keep what you bought once its origin has come to light. You are, however, allowed to sue the person you bought it from. In the case of a broken confidentiality agreement or NDA, it's my understanding that if the information has only been transferred to one party, then the court grants an injunction against the party from utilizing that information, and that party can claim legitimate damages from the party that they acquired it from. The situation you describe is only applicable in a circumstance where the confidential information was revealed to the general public, and the "genie is out of the bottle", as it were.

      Of course, all of this is applicable to the story were are discussing only if the guy who sold the Rift to Facebook was not actually entitled to do so.

  13. Not bad at all by SuperKendall · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I was a backer. Were you? Or do you feel compelling to complain on behalf of other people?

    I got the main thing I backed it for - a dev kit.

    Facebook buying them means an investment in learning to program for the Rift is probably 1000x more useful than it would have been otherwise.

    I understand people are wary of Facebook, and for good reason. But I have seen huge upsides with pretty much no downside since Facebook bought the company.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:Not bad at all by mark-t · · Score: 1

      Facebook buying it means absolutely dick all if the guy really did misappropriate another company's IP. Facebook would fully be entitled to absolutely all of their money back and then some. Backers of the Rift on kickstarter would unfortunately probably be out of luck.

    2. Re:Not bad at all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oculus had no patentable hardware IP for Facebook to buy in the first place. Every aspect of the Rift is well covered by numerous sources of prior art given the preceding decades that VR has had to exist in academic research and commercial disuse, never mind the decades of hobbyists tinkering with it after the commercial market went belly up. This is why you see Valve, HTC, Sony, Razer and a dozen other startups using nearly identical configurations to the Rift and no lawsuits flying between them.

    3. Re:Not bad at all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Every aspect of device is well covered by numerous sources of prior art

      When has that ever stopped patent trolls?

    4. Re:Not bad at all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How can you misappropriate a non-thing - something that doesn't exist?

      I'll tell you how... You CAN'T!!! IP doesn't exist, never has, never will. Get that Gerbil out of your ass, that's why you're butt-hurt, not because someone didn't steal something that never existed.

    5. Re:Not bad at all by mark-t · · Score: 1

      A confidentiality agreement trumps that notion. If the guy signed an NDA and then violated the NDA within its duration, he can be sued by TRT. The court can also grant an injunction against Facebook, even though they were not involved in the NDA, from utilizing that information... and Facebook can rightfully sue the person they got it from as well.

      Of course, that's all assuming that the guy really did violate a confidentiality agreement. For all we know, TRT's claims may be entirely specious.

      IANAL, but I've worked for companies that have confidentiality agreements, and they can and do take breaking them very seriously.

  14. Oops by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Luckey just lost it.

    Should have read the fine print of the contract.

  15. Burn the bastard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No Linux support? Take him to the cleaners and wipe them out.

  16. Suit need not have any merit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It is pretty easy for the plaintiff to claim they provided the IP that the defendant used. However, people like the defendant get hired because
    they have skills and knowledge in the first place to bring to a company. That skillset and knowhow does not pass to an employer, provided
    some evidence can be found that the defendant knew the "secrets" before he signed on. While there are often provisions where a hire is supposed
    to list all prior information, in practice these can never be complete lists.

    A company which could not get a working product and now wants to cash in on prior and subsequent work by its one time employee
    has a strong motive to claim all sorts of exclusivity to which it is not entitled. In view of some similar cases I've known of (where the
    defendant was not well-heeled), I have much suspicion this happened here too.

    1. Re:Suit need not have any merit by FranTaylor · · Score: 1

      A company which could not get a working product and now wants to cash in on prior and subsequent work by its one time employee
      has a strong motive to claim all sorts of exclusivity to which it is not entitled.

      maybe they couldn't get the product to work because their engineer quit and took the blueprints with him?

  17. Re:Shrek is love by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It is a lie?

  18. Money Grab? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When the money wasn't there nobody cared, nome sane?

  19. This will get thrown out... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    PalmerTech as he exists on the MTBS boards has a demonstrated development cycle on the rift stretching back to 2009.
      Arguably the most important developments were made throughout 2010 with the PR1 concept.
      This includes documented evidence of all the major design elements that are evident in the rift to date.
    Unless he sold them the IP, then they have no leg to stand on.
    Nothing like a beat up to hide the facts.

    Source: 5 seconds with google.

    1. Re:This will get thrown out... by FranTaylor · · Score: 1

      Unless he sold them the IP, then they have no leg to stand on.

      "IP" is not any sort of legal construct. There is not protection anywhere for "IP". Do you mean "patent"? Why don't you say "patent"?

    2. Re:This will get thrown out... by NimbleSquirrel · · Score: 1

      The point here isn't whether Palmer Luckey started development of the rift before being involved with Total Recall Technologies, it is whether any of the information that Palmer Luckey acquired from TRT or any of the ideas/improvements he came up with working for TRT (Source: 5 seconds with google for the term 'work for hire') found their way into the Oculus Rift. If TRT can prove anything like that, and they can prove NDA agreements, they may indeed have a case.

      The timing here is interesting, but not surprising since Oculus have finally announced a commercial product. The potential for TRT to gain an injunction on teh eve of their release would be more than enough reason for Oculus to settle out of court. If TRT really do have a case I wonder how long it will be before we hear the settlement announcement.

      I'm still keen to find out what is happening with the Zenimax vs Oculus case. That has gone awfully quiet on both sides.

    3. Re:This will get thrown out... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And this is why technology has stagnated so much in the US. Can't make anything without someone somewhere suing you. Settlements just prove the legal system is completely broken as the defendant doesn't have the time to deal with it. I'm dealing with a lot of companies now that want you to sign draconian NDA's that everything you do is owned by them. So much so, I've seen one company illegal lock out every door, including the emergency exits and have everyone working like prisoners inside (Yes, already reported them to OSHA and the City, now the company is bankrupt). I've seen companies go after engineers for the dumbest of ideas and things (Such as using heat shrink to cover bare wires, seriously!). It's getting to the point of absurdity.

    4. Re:This will get thrown out... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But you're super wrong dude...

      "Intellectual property (IP) is a legal term that refers to creations of the mind. Examples of intellectual property include music, literature, and other artistic works; discoveries and inventions; and words, phrases, symbols, and designs."

      The "PATENT" is undoubtedly only one component of the Intellectual Property they will argue was stolen. If you are under NDA, NCND, or somesuch to not talk or compete about virtual reality headset mumbo jumbo, in exchange for money - then you likely effectively out of that specific business on your own for as long as that NDA has defined.

    5. Re:This will get thrown out... by tepples · · Score: 1

      "IP" is not any sort of legal construct.

      Intellectual property is a category including copyright, patent, trademark, trade secret, and right of publicity. It has meant that in the United States Code since 1996 when Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act became law.

      Do you mean "patent"? Why don't you say "patent"?

      Because a single product may be covered by interlocking or overlapping copyrights, patents, trademarks, and trade secrets that are licensed as a package.

    6. Re:This will get thrown out... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IP is exactly this... NOTHING...

      There is no thing called IP, it doesn't exist. Never has. Never will.

      It's phony baloney made up for people to throw around and act all butt-hurt when they can't get the gerbils out of their asses.

  20. Re:I'M ROYAL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    OOOOHHHHHH!

    -Andrew Dice Clay

  21. they could have collaborated by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Oculus Rift, and subsequent involvement by John Carmack, and others, was publicized in the gaming press, a major market for 3D tech. There were people playing the Doom 3 BFG edition with headsets in early 2013. Total Recall Technologies could have been publicizing Palmer Luckey stole their intellectual property, and that they were the ones to work with in 3D headsets. The people at Total Recall Technologies could have collaborated with John Carmack, and others, and their company would be the ones making a future 3D headset.

    But, if you want money, and don't want to work, then waiting for the other guy to make money, IF he makes money, is a very good strategy.

  22. Re:I'M ROYAL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What? Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!

    - John Belushi as Bluto

  23. Re:It's bad enough by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've been stung by so many kickstarters. These guys at least send me something that kind of worked, and I was able to write some OpenGL toys around it, so I had my fun at least. But I'm really done with them, and with all other kickstarters/indiegogo/whatever.

  24. In related news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In related news, Total Recall (a Hawaii based company) recently got a major infusion of cash and advice about ignoring facts from two brothers which one of the company's consultants called Winkelvii. Some of the apparent advice included such gems as "its ok, broad ideas uttered in a drunken stupor caught in a friends 'drunk cam' can be considered prior art and are as good as finished product."

  25. Re: I'M ROYAL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Since when did the Germans bomb Pearl Harbor? Did USA retaliate against the wrong country?

  26. Dean Vernon Wormer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son.

    1. Re:Dean Vernon Wormer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually that's the best way, junior.

  27. Amiga was first by cheekyboy · · Score: 1

    It did it all, just like Oculus.

    But 1/10000th the cpu power, and 1/10th the res.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

    --
    Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
  28. TRT patent only issued in April 2015 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The timing isn't all that unusual: TRT's patent just issued, roughly 4 years after the provisional was filed. The full application filing date is Nov 2013.
    https://www.google.com/patents/US9007430

    They filed their app before they hired Luckey (Aug 2011) , although the complaint says they were talking to him earlier.

    "This application is a continuation of International Application No. PCT/US2012/039572, filed May 25, 2012, which claims priority to U.S Provisional Application No. 61/490,656, filed May 27, 2011."
    Ignore all the field of invention and abstract.. Although the abstract talks about capturing images, etc., there's nothing in the claims about it

    Look at the claims:

    And the first claim is
    1. A system for creating a navigable, panoramic three-dimensional virtual reality environment, comprising...

    Purely the display device.. Yep, I'll bet the Oculus Rift "reads on" the claims quite nicely.

    8.A non-transitory computer usable medium comprising a computer readable program code embodied therein, the computer readable program code adapted to be executed to implement a method for rendering video image data to create a navigable, panoramic three-dimensional virtual reality environment comprising the steps of..

  29. That's clever then... by Meski · · Score: 1

    For Oculus to "pick" Facebook to take them over. Mark has history at being good at this (Hellooo Winklevoss twins)

  30. Laches by tepples · · Score: 1

    That's the kind of intentionally harmful delay for which the laches defense was designed.

  31. To enjoin him by tepples · · Score: 1

    As another poster had already mentioned, what's the point of sue *before* he got the money?

    To enjoin him from further use of trade secrets so that you can sell your product without fear of unfair competition from his.

  32. Good by The+Eight-Bit+Link · · Score: 1

    I hope it kneecaps them, serves them right for pulling the rug out from people when they gave the impression it was going to be open source.

  33. Then what does section 230 mean? by tepples · · Score: 1

    There is no thing called IP, it doesn't exist. Never has. Never will.

    Then how would you describe the legal effect of 47 USC 230(e)(2)? "Nothing in this section shall be construed to limit or expand any law pertaining to intellectual property."

  34. If you build it... by wardrich86 · · Score: 1

    It's like that famous saying, you know, "If you build it, they will sue."