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India Ends Russian Space Partnership and Will Land On the Moon Alone

Posted by samzenpus on from the all-by-myself dept.

An anonymous reader writes: The Russian space program has experienced numerous accidents and delays recently, leading Indian officials to call into question its long term viability. Now India has decided to pull out of a partnership with Russia for a mission to the moon. According to the Examiner: "Previously, India was scheduled to launch a Russian lander on one of its rockets and send it to the lunar South Pole. Now, according to a story in Russia and India Report, India will go it alone, building its own lander to touch down on the lunar surface within the next few years.

25 of 119 comments (clear)

  1. Twenty five years of science destruction... by virens · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ... brought this shithole called russia to complete degradation of engineering and scientific potential. Typical salary of research assistant used to be 200 USD (back in 2008 when I worked there). Almost impossible to buy any modern (i.e. Western) equipment - local hardware has exorbitant pricetags with chinese-type quality. Median age of "researchers" was 65 years old. Outdated equipment from museums (I remember doing optical experiments with calibrated light sources from 1950 (sic)). Stupid nationalism - you cannot write Ph.D. in English, and almost no subscriptions to modern journals. They still live in 1960x, thinking they are great. I'm surprised that India waited this long to ditch those pompous morons.

    Full disclosure: I used to work in MePHI as a research associate. I left this shithole, like everyone who wanted to do something worth of their life, and never looked back.

    1. Re:Twenty five years of science destruction... by Rei · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I hate to be the one to tell you but academia generally pays poorly outside of the US. More so in a country like Russia that is still clawing its way back up from the economic collapse that occurred during the transition from communism to capitalism.

      Perhaps if most of the country's wealth wasn't concentrated in the hands of a handful of corrupt oligarchs who live like a modern version of Roman emperors they'd be able to pay researchers a living wage.

      --
      POTUS Witch Hunt tracker: 75 charges filed against 19 witches, 4 witches cooperating and 5 witches have pled guilty.
    2. Re:Twenty five years of science destruction... by tuxgeek · · Score: 3, Funny

      I occasionally work with Russians here in Alaska.
      To their credit, they are very hard workers.

      First thing I ask of them is "say moose and squirrel"

      --
      "Suppose you were an idiot...and suppose you were a member of Congress...but I repeat myself." Mark Twain
    3. Re:Twenty five years of science destruction... by istartedi · · Score: 3, Informative

      This is the same kind of thing that was said in the US. The space program had more "spin-off" benefits than I can list. Computers, solar cells, etc. were all advanced by contributions from space research. If it hadn't been for computers in particular, I don't know what kind of work I would have had. It probably wouldn't have been such a good ride for me, and I was never directly employed by NASA. Yes. There are still poor people in the USA... carrying pocket computers.

      --
      For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
    4. Re:Twenty five years of science destruction... by Tablizer · · Score: 2

      I remember doing optical experiments with calibrated light sources from 1950...They still live in 1960x

      Well, they ain't russian to get anything new.

      --
      Table-ized A.I.
    5. Re:Twenty five years of science destruction... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I spent almost 10 years in MEPhI between 1989 and 1998, and it was really sad to see how everything was falling apart... One winter, there was no heating in all buildings, some heating pipes got frozen and some busted from ice... And the administration tried to make some money by renting some property to commercial organisation. So most of those who could do something useful started to leave. From I heard, the situation did not get much better in the 2000s.

    6. Re:Twenty five years of science destruction... by FilatovEV · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Perhaps if most of the country's wealth wasn't concentrated in the hands of a handful of corrupt oligarchs who live like a modern version of Roman emperors they'd be able to pay researchers a living wage.

      Can you imagine that the rise of the class of super-rich was viewed as a huge achievement in Russia's 1990s? Like, we've ditched the ineffective Socialism and now we have the super-rich like the rest of the world! Isn't that the huge progress we've made?

  2. My bet's on India by AndyKron · · Score: 3

    India will probably do it. They already made it to Mars.

  3. Everyone is going to the Moon... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Except for the United States. We're too busy planning to hump an asteroid in lunar orbit to explore future mining opportunities. Never mind that mining is illegal under existing space treaty.

    1. Re:Everyone is going to the Moon... by radarskiy · · Score: 4, Informative

      There is absolutely nothing in the Outer Space Treaty of 1967 that prevents commercial exploitation, and it actively encourages scientific exploitation. What it prohibits is national appropriation, i.e. no country can claim claim territory.
      What is unclear is who who has jurisdiction over conflicts between nationals of different signatories. (Nationals of the same signatory are under the jurisdiction of that signatory.) For example, if US Space Mining Co comes along a picks up the processed ore from EU Space Mining Co and runs off with it EUSMCo has no venue for redress of the theft.

    2. Re:Everyone is going to the Moon... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 3, Informative

      Never mind that mining is illegal under existing space treaty.

      The Outer Space Treaty bans claims of sovereignty, but does not ban individual property rights. You cannot own the moon, but if you dig up and process lunar regolith, the resulting product should be yours.

       

    3. Re:Everyone is going to the Moon... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 2

      It's Planetary Resources that wants the U.S. to break the treaty. Remember that name. No doubt it will become the Wal-Mart of outer space.

    4. Re:Everyone is going to the Moon... by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 2

      Never mind that mining is illegal [vice.com] under existing space treaty.

      Actually, no. The Treaty in question makes it illegal for GOVERNMENTS to lay claim to celestial bodies. It doesn't appear to say much, if anything, about what private individuals do in space (probably because noone imagined the possibility of private individuals doing anything in space when the Treaty was made).

      Note that it could be argued that property rights are granted by a government and so it is impossible for a private citizen/corporation to do anything in space without government approval, which would be tantamount to a treaty violation.

      On the other hand, history is pretty much full of private individuals going out beyond the territories of any existing government, and doing pretty much what they liked there. Note the colonization of the Americas as an example.

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    5. Re:Everyone is going to the Moon... by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      It's Planetary Resources that wants the U.S. to break the treaty. Remember that name. No doubt it will become the Wal-Mart of outer space.

      If that's the price of actually developing space industry to the point of having a Wal-Mart of outer space, so be it. Then I can buy me a space ship and fly... past the sky.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  4. Russia can't launch a space satellite by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    They do, however, have a President who can ride shirtless on the back of grizzly bear.

    1. Re:Russia can't launch a space satellite by viperidaenz · · Score: 2

      He was riding on the back of a regular horse.
      You must be confused by his chest hair.

  5. Re:I'll believe it when I see it... by Rei · · Score: 4, Interesting

    "Love" is the nice way to put it. "Largess at the expense of all other solar system exploration" would be more accurate. Here's a graph. And it's always the same stupid justifications - how many times can we pretend to be excited about "revelations" that Mars was once in its past a wet place? Or that we're going to stumble into life any time soon in its perchlorate-rich, destroys-organics-on-contact regolith?

    And it's not just huge amounts of money that they're wasting - they're also throwing away most of the remainder of our plutonium supply. At least there's money to start making it again, but it'll take time. Plutonium is precious, and it's needed for outer planet missions.

    --
    POTUS Witch Hunt tracker: 75 charges filed against 19 witches, 4 witches cooperating and 5 witches have pled guilty.
  6. Re:Smart by epyT-R · · Score: 2

    Unfortunately, you're right. However, life is still a lot better in the USA than it is in India.

  7. In Soviet Russia by codeButcher · · Score: 2

    Bah. Should have stayed Soviet. Soviet Russia does not outsource space program work; just to have insourcing country take whole project and leave Russkies without job.

    --
    Free, as in your money being freed from the confines of your account.
  8. Re:I'll believe it when I see it... by Dunbal · · Score: 2

    Millions of subscribers? You have trouble nowadays convincing people that we went to the moon in the first place. Even the worst television series has more views than any (real) space-related stuff.

    --
    Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
  9. Re:Smart by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Funny, your description there can also be applied to Americans, and I'm an American. Fat stupid lazy americans watching fox news. Totally embarrassing!

  10. Re: Smart by Type44Q · · Score: 2

    I don't want hear [I]anyone[/I] chiming in on "fat, stupid, lazy" until [b]they[/b] can say they spent ten-plus years in Oklahoma...

  11. Re:I'll believe it when I see it... by Lord+Apathy · · Score: 2

    Because we have already been there, we got plenty of lunar rocks, and there is no particular reason to go back. Mars is much more interesting, and asteroids provide far better economic opportunities.

    "We" have done no such thing. Only a hand full of people have been to the moon. I don't know about you, for all I know you might have been one of them. I do know that one of them wasn't "me."

    That is the most important reason I want to go back to the moon. I haven't been there and I would love see the original sites of the first moon landings.

    That is how I want to do it, tour the moon like tourist.

    --

    Supporting World Peace Through Nuclear Pacification

  12. Re:I'll believe it when I see it... by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

    I'd take a single Titan-exploring tiltrotor VTOL craft over a hundred new lunar rovers.

    SUNDAYsundaySUNDAYit'sDUSTSLINGINROVERCRASHINACTION

    You'll pay for the whole spacesuit but you'll only use the pants! BE THERE (by telepresence) OR BE SQUARE. etc.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  13. Show 'em, India!! by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    lol? India can't even keep the power on. They can't clean up their garbage. They can't clean up their water supply...

    You guys always look down on countries in Asia / Africa such as India or Kenya

    You guys always think that countries such as India can never catch up

    I have news for you...
     
    While it is true India does have its hands full with the myriad problems that it is facing, India has bean growing leaps and bounds in terms of improving its own infrastructures and in its talent pool for the past few decades, and THIS TREND IS RAPIDLY ACCELERATING IN SCALE

    I know, because I do have businesses in India, and I go to India several times every year

    To India and to all Indians - as you guys have seen for yourself the snobbery the "Western People" are towards India, isn't it time India stands up and show the world - especially those Western snobs - what you can

    Show 'em, India!!

    --
    Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !