How Much C++ Should You Know For an Entry-Level C++ Job?

Nerval's Lobster writes: How much C++ do you need to know to land an entry-level job that's heavy in C++? That's a question Dice posed to several developers. While the exact topic was C++, the broader question of "How much X do you actually need to know to make money off it?" could also apply to any number of programming languages. In the case of C++, basics to know include virtual methods, virtual destructors, operator overloading, how templates work, correct syntax, the standard library, and more. Anything less, and a senior developer will likely get furious; they have a job to do, and that job isn't teaching the ins and outs of programming. With all that in mind, what's a minimum level of knowledge for a programming language for entry-level developers?

Comments

Answer

[s.petry]

NONE! Find a real language! *ducks*

Re:Answer

[lgw]

NONE! Find a real language! *ducks*

For non-ducks, the most important things to know about C++ aren't list in the summery: RAII and shared_ptr<T>

C++ is not C. C++ written like C tends to be crap code - just an overly complex and distracting language for that coding style. If C++ is the right tool for the job, you need to be using a coding style very similar to C# and Java: throwing exception when errors are encountered, writing exception-safe code all the time, returning from functions in the middle, and never, ever, worrying about cleaning up at the bottom of a function what you allocate at the top.

If all of that sounds wrong to you, congrats, you're a C coder, and there's nothing wrong with that. Good C code is good code. But C++ is designed to be used with "scoped objects", that is, every object cleans itself up when you exit scope, so you really have to internalize the tools for that, and that mindset.

Re:Answer

[Spazmania]

C++ is not C. C++ written like C tends to be crap code - just an overly complex and distracting language for that coding style. If C++ is the right tool for the job, you need to be using a coding style very similar to C# and Java

That's a bit of a problem, because when you program in C++ the same way you'd program in Java, you lose the efficiency and simplicity of C without gaining the clean design of Java. Java is superior to C++ in almost every reasonable use of C++ *except* the ones which call for programming in C but with, you know, a little bit plus.

If all of that sounds wrong to you, congrats, you're a C coder

I resemble that remark.

Re:Answer

[rjh]

unique_ptr is normally preferred over shared_ptr -- the former is zero-overhead compared to a pointer, while the latter has a reference count associated with it which has to be incremented and decremented. If you know two or more things will be using the pointer and you don't want to have to worry about ownership semantics, shared_ptr makes a lot of sense. If you know only one will be using it, unique_ptr makes more sense.

Re:Answer

[rjh]

I don't know who told you C++ was an object-oriented language. It's not -- ask Bjarne. It supports many different styles of programming, object-oriented being just one of many, but it is in no way object-oriented. You can write large code bases without using a single object.

None. Go meta.

[Anonymous Coward]

Knowing C++ shouldn't matter. Demonstrating that you can quickly master and use any language should.

Re:None. Go meta.

[Anonymous Coward]

This is surprisingly accurate. No amount of programming language knowledge will help you write a good program if you can't design the software from a practical level, upwards. What do you want the computer to do? What exact steps do you want it to take? Good, now translate that into $programming_language. That last part is actually the easiest part of software engineering.

How to read f*ucked up code

[mveloso]

The biggest skill in C++ is how to read code that's got templates, generics, overloaded operators, and custom keywords.

"What do you mean they overloaded '+' to merge objects?"

"This doesn't look like C++, it looks like some foreign language."

"Oh, we reversed the meaning of + and - because the senior guy thought that the original semantics were incorrect. But only for some objects."

Which C++?

[Anonymous Coward]

Is it abort maintaining some old code which tends to be more like C with use of class instead of strict,
Or is it C++14 which is a much more modern language?

"How do you monetize Slashdot?"

[93 Escort Wagon]

That's a question Dice posed to several middle managers recently. "We paid a lot of money for this tech property, but we have absolutely no idea how to use it", said one Dice higher up who requested anonymity. "Seriously - help us out here! There are over three million Slashdot subscribers, but none of them will click on an ad!", he lamented. "And they won't come over to dice.com and discuss these stories we keep cross-posting! We don't want to just be a second-rate job board forever..."

For C++, there is no standard answer

[swillden]

For C++ there is no standard answer, because every C++ shop uses a different subset of the language. There are probably a few things that all of them have in common, but it's unreasonable to expect that any entry level C++ programmer can be productive without support from senior programmers while they learn the local ropes. Even experienced C++ programmers will need a little time to get up to speed on the local style guidelines.

C++ doesn't have an extensive set of standard libraries, either, which means that every shop has its own set. So senior programmers have to expect that new people are going to spend a lot of time getting up to speed on those.

Finally, I think the question is fundamentally bad, because it implies a misguided expectation of immediate productivity. That's a common expectation (hope?) throughout much of the industry, but unless you're hiring contractors for six-month jobs, its stupid. What matters in the longer run isn't what your new hires know coming in the door, it's how well they learn, and think. Because whatever they know coming in is invariably inadequate in both short and long term. One of the things I found very refreshing when I joined Google is that they don't much care what you know in terms of languages, libraries and tool sets. It's assumed that capable people will learn what they need to when they need to learn it, and that any new project involves some ramp-up time before people are productive. On the other hand, given a little time to get up to speed capable people will become very productive. Much more so than the less capable person who happened to know the right set of things when hired.

As a hiring manager

[Anonymous Coward]

As a C++ hiring manager I like you to have a relevant degree; know C++-98 pitfalls to the level of Meyers, "Exceptional C++", "More Exceptional C++"; be aware of or know the Gang of Four Patterns. Familiarity with Sutter and Alexandrescu's writings are nice. Knowledge of Lakos and physical design (rate) is a big bonus. In a big project, even with good programmers, they usually make a mess out of the physical design. Some understanding of unit test and coverage is good too.

Re:As a hiring manager

[janoc]

And I do hope that you offer a senior developer wages as well for these sort of requirements. The OP was talking entry level job.

People requiring these sort of skills for an entry level job are the true reason for the perceived "lack of IT talent" - unreasonable expectations and entry level pay.

The Correct Answer

[Anonymous Coward]

If Bjarne Stroustrup doesn't come to you for advice, you aren't qualified for an entry level C++ position.

How else can we prove that there are not enough qualified applicants and need more H1-Bs?

Encounter

[SuperKendall]

Don't think he was a duck. From the fact that he was about to give us a list of real languages but then failed to do so, I can only assume the last "ducks" was him exclaiming at being overwhelmed by a wave of ducks, that subsequently ate him.

Yes, I am quite sure the real problem is he was a victim of.... fowl play.