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Prospects and Limits For the LHC's Capabilities To Test String Theory

StartsWithABang writes: The Large Hadron Collider has just been upgraded, and is now making the highest energy collisions of any human-made machine ever. But even at 13 TeV, what are the prospects for testing String Theory, considering that the string energy scale should be up at around 10^19 GeV or so? Surprisingly, there are a number of phenomenological consequences that should emerge, and looking at what we've seen so far, they may disfavor String Theory after all.

88 of 148 comments (clear)

  1. Not a surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    String Theory is the result of an attempt to rectify QM and Relativity using pure math. It was not born from evidence. So, evidence will; be its undoing,

    1. Re:Not a surprise by Coren22 · · Score: 2

      Was that semicolon an indication for putting your sunglasses on?

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    2. Re:Not a surprise by Brain-Fu · · Score: 1

      More likely the semicolon was a deliberate attempt at getting attention, which would result in more responses, higher mods, and greater visiblity.

      (Yes, I did that on porpose, too).

      (and that)

    3. Re:Not a surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It was not born from evidence.

      Quite the opposite, it is born from the evidence that general relativity and quantum mechanics hold quite strongly, and is an attempt to find a theory that covers both. This is a process that has been done many times in physics, finding a theory that is a superset of different ideas, giving a more concise, general explanation. Sometimes in the past it worked, sometimes it didn't, as with any proposed theory.

    4. Re:Not a surprise by stridebird · · Score: 1

      Maxwell's equations. The goddam speed of light pops out of it. It pops right out of the math(s). IMO it's one of the most startling discoveries ever made and proof of the accuracy of using mathematics to model our Universe.

  2. String Theory\0 by Greyfox · · Score: 4, Funny

    If string theory does end up being proven, they're going to have to be careful not to overwrite the null terminator, or the universe will sigsegv.

    --

    I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

    1. Re:String Theory\0 by BCGlorfindel · · Score: 1

      I'm wondering why all the heavy particles that were found with the colliders, were not observed during all the nuclear tests that were done during the 30 or years or so from 1945 till 1975.

      I know nothing of particle physics, but I thought it was that the particles are very short lived?

    2. Re:String Theory\0 by rubycodez · · Score: 2

      Fission and fusion bombs produce low energy particles, compared to colliders. Less than a couple dozen million electron volts at most.

    3. Re:String Theory\0 by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      I'm wondering why all the heavy particles that were found with the colliders, were not observed during all the nuclear tests that were done during the 30 or years or so from 1945 till 1975.

      Better instrumentation and better understanding would be my guesses.

      It's awfully hard to measure things you don't know are there, don't expect to be there, and don't have things which can detect them.

      I'm pretty sure Higgs was mocked for his idea of the Higgs boson. Flash forward, and our understanding is much better ... and now he was right all along.

      Likewise, I'm betting the LHC doesn't have detectors for unicornions ... because we have no theoretical model for unicornions.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    4. Re:String Theory\0 by Coren22 · · Score: 2

      Also, likely a nuclear explosion would have destroyed the detector used to discover the extremely short lived heavy particles.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    5. Re:String Theory\0 by idji · · Score: 2

      they were certainly created, but they occur amongst BILLIONS of other events. Part of the magic of the LHC is to ignore all of this and focus only on the interesting EXTREMELY RARE interactions.

    6. Re:String Theory\0 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      they were certainly created, but they occur amongst BILLIONS of other events. Part of the magic of the LHC is to ignore all of this and focus only on the interesting EXTREMELY RARE interactions.

      I wish the interactions of your fingers and the shift/caps lock keys were extremely rare.

    7. Re:String Theory\0 by Rob+Riggs · · Score: 1

      Yes, exactly. Nor did we have have the same technology available for the detectors, storage for capturing the petabytes of raw data, or the computing power necessary for both filtering and then later analyzing that data.

      --
      the growth in cynicism and rebellion has not been without cause
    8. Re:String Theory\0 by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 1

      String theory encompasses more than just C strings; there's no null terminators on many other string types, such as cheese, for example.

    9. Re:String Theory\0 by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      My roommate is an expert on string theory and the laws of grabbity. I really should trim her claws.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    10. Re:String Theory\0 by AchilleTalon · · Score: 1

      Because the energy in the center of mass of the LHC is much more higher than any nuclear tests can achieve. The energy of a nuclear reaction is around 200 MeV while the LHC's energy in the center of mass is 13 TeV, something like 60 000 higher. No comparison can be made with a nuclear reaction.

      --
      Achille Talon
      Hop!
  3. One quote from the article that is nice... by Hussman32 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "The production of tiny black holes is one of the predictions. "

    No concerns at all with that one.

    Man I hope they know what they are doing.

    --
    "Who are you?" "No one of consequence." "I must know." "Get used to disappointment."
    1. Re:One quote from the article that is nice... by Coren22 · · Score: 4, Informative

      More energetic collisions happen in the upper atmosphere all the time when cosmic rays enter. If there was concern of black holes eating the earth, it would already have happened.

      Here's some great camera footage at the LHC for you if you are really concerned:

      http://www.cyriak.co.uk/lhc/lh...

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    2. Re:One quote from the article that is nice... by Hussman32 · · Score: 2

      That webcam is pretty cool, I wonder how long befo

      --
      "Who are you?" "No one of consequence." "I must know." "Get used to disappointment."
    3. Re:One quote from the article that is nice... by iMadeGhostzilla · · Score: 1

      We really have no idea what kind of profound ramifications this could have for the planet and even beyond. Let's find out.

    4. Re:One quote from the article that is nice... by Charliemopps · · Score: 1

      The singularities (they are not blackholes) have a diameter smaller than the width of the nucleus of an atom. So, even if they were created, survived more than a trillionth of a second without evaporating, or any of the other improbabilities that come along with this... the statistical likelihood of them colliding with any particle at all is basically 0. If it were possible, every star in the universe would have collapsed into a black hole seconds after forming.

      When they building a accelerator around the event horizon of a blackhole and start testing stuff that hasn't happened since the birth of the universe, let me know. I'll worry then.

    5. Re:One quote from the article that is nice... by rwise2112 · · Score: 1

      It's so weird how the sentence gets cut off, but there is still time to click the "Submit" button.

      Time distortion!

      --

      "For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert"
    6. Re:One quote from the article that is nice... by Immerman · · Score: 1

      Absolutely, the technology is not there yet. But the fundamental science underlying the technology is. The two are interconnected, but NOT synonymous.

      As for humanity changing - you are talking about human *technology*, I am talking about humans themselves. Two very different things. We've become far less lethally violent as population density has increased and made violence much more destabilizing, but otherwise we seem to be basically the same creatures as described in the most ancient legends.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    7. Re:One quote from the article that is nice... by An+ominous+Cow+art · · Score: 1

      Perhaps he was dictating?

    8. Re:One quote from the article that is nice... by Immerman · · Score: 1

      Oh, and as for my assumptions - yes, I could be wrong - but of all the things that might possibly emerge from new fundamental physics, it seems *extremely* unlikely that any of it would be particularly applicable to non-physics science. Well, beyond the potential fount of xeno-biological knowledge and/or interaction with alien civilizations if it led to some sort of FTL travel :-D.

      Our technology is already on the cusp of allowing us to observe living organisms on the atomic level - while it's not impossible that some new physics might allow even more detailed and non-invasice information gathering, or even reveal that the ultimate source of the spark of life is not actually the biological organism, introducing new fields of science, neither would have much impact on biology itself, other than potentially accelerating it's advance by a few centuries.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    9. Re:One quote from the article that is nice... by Immerman · · Score: 1

      Assuming of course, that it behaves according to our untested theories.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
  4. Which string theory? by gstoddart · · Score: 2

    Aren't there like 40 things called string theory, ranging from merely odd or unlikely all the way up to batshit crazy?

    I've gotten the sense over the years there's so many things called string theory you can't coherently say what any of it is, or how you'd test it.

    Hell, I'm not even convinced many physicists take it seriously. Which means for the layperson, it mostly sounds like gibberish.

    It just has all the hallmarks of being so unexplainable as to be meaningless. Which I'm sure is grounded in my lack of understanding due to the fact that it's so magical as to be unexplainable.

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    1. Re:Which string theory? by umghhh · · Score: 1

      This is good enough reason to take a week off and watch all of the BBT seasons - I am sure the answer is somewhere there.

    2. Re:Which string theory? by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1

      Which means for the layperson, it mostly sounds like gibberish.

      In fairness, almost everything from high-energy physics sounds like gibberish to everyone but the people running the experiments.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    3. Re:Which string theory? by gstoddart · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Sure, but ... if Richard Feynmann

      criticized string theory in an interview: "I don't like that they're not calculating anything," he said. "I don't like that they don't check their ideas. I don't like that for anything that disagrees with an experiment, they cook up an explanation--a fix-up to say, 'Well, it still might be true.': These words have since been much-quoted by opponents of the string-theoretic direction for particle physics.

      I'll flat out admit I can't come close to understanding the voodoo which is string theory.

      But that Feynman didn't either, and I've heard more recent quotes from physicists who basically say they don't know what it is either ... I feel I'm in good company.

      I accept that my tiny little money brain isn't up to the task. But I'm not the only one saying "WTF?" about string theory.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    4. Re:Which string theory? by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1

      No, I agree. If Feynmann can't follow their calculations, there's something largely amiss. Then again, that was a while ago and for all I know they might be making perfect sense now.

      But I still contend that "it sounds like gibberish to laypeople" is a pretty low bar to set. It's almost impossible to describe something like QCD to non-phycisists without stopping twice a sentence - "well, not a literal color", "not 'up' like in 'gravity'", etc. - even at the high school textbook level.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    5. Re:Which string theory? by gstoddart · · Score: 2

      Oh, sure. There's a lot of background knowledge required to follow any of it.

      But, honestly, even among people with a reasonable foundation in science ... string theory falls into two camps: a) those who make crazy strange metaphors as if they understand it, and b) those who roll their eyes at the people who use crazy strange metaphors as if they understand it.

      So, I conclude that string theory causes an extreme polarization of dork-ions, a lot of hyperbole, and way too little actual understanding or predictive value to be of much use. ;-)

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    6. Re:Which string theory? by DarkFencer · · Score: 1

      There may be 40 things called string theory, but they all boil down to a few things:
        - point particles are actually vibrating strings
        - there are extra spatial dimensions
        - there isn't much in terms of specific testable predictions made by string theory

      The LHC tests may show things that hint at extra dimensions (of small but testable size, not planck length). This in and of itself wouldn't prove any of the individual string theories. But showing nothing that could indicate super symmetry or extra dimensions or other 'stringy' things would be an issue for strong theory.

      Disclaimer, I am not a physicist (string or otherwise).

    7. Re:Which string theory? by avandesande · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately 'silly string' theory has taken over entire physics departments (such as at Princeton) and wasted a huge amount of mind share. Cold fusion is mote in comparison.

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
    8. Re:Which string theory? by sjames · · Score: 1

      Imagine a "theory" with a bunch of adjustments. So many adjustmentrs that no matter what happens, there is some adjustment that canm be made such that it "retroactively) predicts it. That is string theory.

      The big problem with string "theory" is that it predicts everything and so, nothing.

      String toolkit might be a better name. It is just that, a bag of parts and tools that might one day be used to construct a theory that predicts something in particular.

    9. Re:Which string theory? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Feynman died in the mid 80s. We've had a good couple of "revolutions" in string theory since. Not that his comments aren't to be taken seriously, but the "string theory" he talked about then is not the "string theory" we talk about now. We now effectively have four or five "string theories" each of which are related to the others via "dualities" (ultimately, ways of transforming aspects of one theory to find exactly aspects of another), and are also related via a duality to supergravity. This both suggests that there is *something* interesting in the theories - be it pure mathematical or be it physical; now that we don't know - and also that there is a single theory that they are the limits of in various regimes. Enter M theory, a "theory" we know nothing about bar its limits in a few different regimes. (We don't know much about what those regimes are, either, merely that they exist.)

      I'm no fan of string theory either, for many of the same reasons. I'm particularly no fan of the bullshit that comes along when "string phenomenologists" take some mathematical aspect, yank it out of context, apply it to some contrived setup in some higher-dimensional form of general relativity, and then pretend that any of this means anything. It doesn't, it means utterly fuck all. The people who instead pick some point of the string landscape and boil it down all the way to 3+1d spacetime are at least doing physics, even if to my knowledge few of them have found anything that suggests that they've got our universe out of it. The phenomenologists are just fucking around.

      But at the same time, there's enough there that I'm happy people are working on it - I just wish that it wasn't such an enormous pit of funding and that other areas of high-energy theoretical physics would get more a look-in. I'm also not happy with the way that high-energy physics is presented to the public. On the one hand, we have people who've seen one Brian Greene documentary and think they know how the universe is set up, and on the other we have *Nobel laureates* giving plenary speakers at major conferences saying stupid, *stupid* fucking things like "We know that supersymmetry is real". No, you stupid fucking cunt, we do *not* know that. This was at a conference in Munich in, hmm, must have been 2008 or 2009. I was very offended even then, and the higher energy the LHC gets to and the increasing bouncing of MSSM parameters to lift them *just* out of range of the LHC, the more pissed off I get. Stupid. Fucking. Stupid. Fucking. Arrogant. CUNT.

      I'm not sure I have a coherent point here :) I just like being able to call a Nobel laureate a stupid fucking cunt, and to advise slight caution against taking Feynman as the last word. A word worth listening to, definitely, but he wasn't talking about quite the same theory as we have now (and he was not, himself, infallible).

    10. Re:Which string theory? by Greyfox · · Score: 1

      Inasmuch as I can follow it, a lot of it seems to be "Well the math seems to work (or can be made to work) so we should be looking for these specific things." Also, it seems like every time an experiment is done trying to prove any of the collection of things in string theory (Or supersymmetry, for that matter,) they always seem to end up not validating what the experiment was trying to prove.

      --

      I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

    11. Re:Which string theory? by ve3oat · · Score: 2

      Anyone interested in other aspects of this question should read (if they haven't already) "The Trouble with Physics" by Lee Smolin (New York, 2007). He used to be at the Perimeter Institute (maybe still is). Smolin's book isn't just about the physics but also about the sociology of some of the physicists. A good read.

    12. Re:Which string theory? by budgenator · · Score: 1

      It's not that bad, you just have to read "The Jabberwocky" to them for a warm up first.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    13. Re:Which string theory? by penandpaper · · Score: 1

      But.. But... It has "theory" in the name that means that you are just not smart enough to understand and I am a super genius! If I use my patented off hand metaphor to describe it, I could get my own TV show! However, describing dork-ions seems self defeating.

    14. Re:Which string theory? by sjames · · Score: 2

      Actually, quantum mechanics made a few actual predictions that proved to be dead on.

    15. Re:Which string theory? by sjames · · Score: 1

      Climatology has proven much more predictive than string theory.

    16. Re:Which string theory? by sjames · · Score: 1

      Calculus was never claimed to be anything else.

    17. Re:Which string theory? by sjames · · Score: 1

      True, but it seems string theory attracts more woo and people trying to claim it predicts something.

    18. Re:Which string theory? by waveman · · Score: 1

      See also Peter Woit's book "not even wrong" and his blog here. http://www.math.columbia.edu/~...

      My question is: What observation from the LHC would disprove string theory? If ST is compatible with every possible experimental outcome, it predicts nothing.

    19. Re:Which string theory? by budgenator · · Score: 1

      Get back with me when they make a prediction outside their error bars.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    20. Re:Which string theory? by sjames · · Score: 1

      Already happened unless you stretch the error bars because it's inconvenient to your political convictions.

    21. Re:Which string theory? by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      "It might still be true" also leads to discoveries. If you have reason to believe a theory is correct, anomalies are a way to explore previously unexplained cases. To give an example, Newtonian gravitation predicted Kepler's laws and some variations from them, but not the exact orbit of Saturn. It turned out that the anomalies could be explained by a planet further out, and one was indeed found. It also had problems with the orbit of Mercury, but that turned out to be a relativistic effect, a case where Newtonian laws of motion and gravity mostly worked but needed refinement.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    22. Re:Which string theory? by OutOnARock · · Score: 1

      so string theory is the systemd of physics?

  5. Re:have lot's of crowbars on hand by meerling · · Score: 1

    He was making a game reference you racist troll.

  6. You can't falsify string theory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The problem is, that there are 10^520 possible variations of string theory models that can represent our universe, and if we fail to find any of the results 'predicted' by string theory, then string theorists can just re-arrange the variables in their models, and pick from one of the other 10^520 variations - and can shift the goalposts like this pretty much forever, unless we have the gigantic breakthrough in string theory research, that we've been waiting for 30 years already, with no end/hope in sight...

    It's not uncommon to hear among physicists critical of string theory, that we could be centuries away from falsifying the theory - even millenia.

    1. Re:You can't falsify string theory by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      or just go with what Feynman said, it's experimentally unverifiable and thus nonsense and a waste of time

  7. Checklist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Pop-sci - check
    medium.com - check
    Ethan - check
    Every single fucking day - check

    Slashdot shillsquad is good to go

  8. they may disfavor String Theory after all by davstok · · Score: 1

    After all?

  9. TeV, GeV by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 4, Insightful

    But even at 13 TeV, what are the prospects for testing String Theory, considering that the string energy scale should be up at around 10^19 GeV or so?

    Why the switch to GeV? Stick with a prefix and call it 10^16 TeV.

    --
    systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
    1. Re:TeV, GeV by countSudoku() · · Score: 1

      I'll second that! I was thinking the same thing; why is GeV somehow bigger that TeV, or is it a typo, or something else? I'm going to read about this on wikipedia. I can usually catch a gist or two from there.

      --
      This is the NSA, we're gonna geet U h@x0r5! Also, what is a h@x0r5?
    2. Re:TeV, GeV by BlackPignouf · · Score: 1

      My calculator tells me that 10^16 = 10 XOR 16 = 26.
      Only 13 TeV to go! :)

    3. Re:TeV, GeV by halivar · · Score: 1

      Wait, is that metric TeV, or English Customary TeV?

    4. Re:TeV, GeV by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      One GeV is the approximate (order-of-magnitude) scale of QCD quark confinement. Thus it is the scale measure that particle physicists usually think in terms of. I imagine that people who study atomic-scale interactions think in terms of Angstroms for the same reason. In fact it is pretty common to use a set of units in which c = hbar = 1 so that energy, momentum, and mass can be conveniently measured in terms of GeV, GeV/c, and GeV/c^2. If you like to do that sort of thing.

  10. a microscopic black hole won't hurt you by ericbg05 · · Score: 4, Informative

    "The production of tiny black holes is one of the predictions. "
    Man I hope they know what they are doing.

    Microscopic black holes disappear quickly due to Hawking radiation. So if your goal is to destroy the earth, creating a microscopic black hole is not the way you want to go.

    The bigger a black hole is, the more slowly it evaporates. So if you want your black hole to do any damage, it'll have to be more than a certain threshold size. Turns out that minimum-size black hole you'll need to destroy Earth is roughly the mass of Mt Everest.

    If we take the density of such a black hole to be 3 * 10^18 kg/m^3, then our black hole will look like a ball with a radius of about 12 cm, i.e. it looks like a soccer ball.*

    See here for more details.

    * no idea if my density assumption is reasonable. I'm not a physicist -- I got the number from 20 seconds of googling. The volume of your black hole may vary.

    1. Re:a microscopic black hole won't hurt you by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      Turns out that minimum-size black hole you'll need to destroy Earth is roughly the mass of Mt Everest.

      This must be why evil mad scientists are always found underneath large volcanoes. Everything is clear to me now.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    2. Re:a microscopic black hole won't hurt you by jfengel · · Score: 2

      It's denser than that. The Schwartzschild radius of a black hole with a mass around 10^15 kg (a rough guess) is about 10^-12 meters (about a picometer). Give or take a few orders of magnitude. Wolfram Alpha has a convenient Schwartzschild radius calculator. The evaporation time for a black hole that big is 10^30 seconds.

      The smaller a black hole is, the denser. The number you give is for a star-sized black hole. There isn't any known way to form grain-of-sand sized black holes, though they might have formed in the very early universe. In which case one could be wandering through the solar system at this very minute....

    3. Re:a microscopic black hole won't hurt you by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 2

      That's fun. A 1 meter radius blackhole would have a mass of around 673500000000000000000000000 Kg

      You could put it in the back of a minivan and drive it around advanced societies, giving the less advanced places time to catch up.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    4. Re:a microscopic black hole won't hurt you by lgw · · Score: 1

      I propose we adopt "mass of Mt Everest" as a new Slashdot standard of measument - measuring mass in Libraries of Congress was always awkward.

      I believe the mass of Mt Everest estimate is correct for the Earth-destroying black hole - it's the point at which matter infall at the density of the Earth's interior exceeds Hawking radiation. In a vacuum, the magic mass is about the mass of the moon - the point at which the Hawking radiation is cooler than the CMBR, and so you won't have a net loss for 10^lots years.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    5. Re:a microscopic black hole won't hurt you by jfengel · · Score: 2

      Found this:

      http://xaonon.dyndns.org/hawki...

      It says that a 3K black hole has a mass of 4x10^22 kg, a bit larger than the Everest-sized black hole.

      The Everest-hole hole is extremely hot, 10^8 K, but it's still radiating so slowly that it'll take 10^21 years to evaporate, so it would be more than enough to destroy the earth.

      I'm not quite sure how to solve for one that would be hot enough to suck in the earth before evaporating, but I see that a black hole that would last 1 second is a mere 70 million kilograms, with a radius of about a picometer.

    6. Re:a microscopic black hole won't hurt you by lgw · · Score: 1

      It says that a 3K black hole has a mass of 4x10^22 kg, a bit larger than the Everest-sized black hole.

      The moon is just over 7x10^22 kg.

      m not quite sure how to solve for one that would be hot enough to suck in the earth before evaporating

      The hard part is determining the rate at which a small black hole would consume matter. Very small black holes simply don't have the cross-section to consume matter fast enough to live. The hole would have to live long enough (and still have a cross-section large enough) for the few seconds needed to fall through the ground and get deep enough to pass the water table and into denser crust. From that point it's a matter of its cross-section, speed, and the density of the rock its passing through.

      My best estimate for the Mt Everest mass is 4*10^15 kg, which gives a radius of 6 pm - seems big enough to eat silicon and iron atoms.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    7. Re:a microscopic black hole won't hurt you by budgenator · · Score: 1

      Close but the Schwartzschild radius solution only applies to non-rotating bodies and any particle I can think of that is subject to relativistic mass increases also have spin, a closer fit would be a Kerr–Newman metric, however I'd assume that these solutions ignore external gravitational fields, which might be valid approximation over interstellar distances, it might not be valid in Earth's atmosphere for cosmic rays or inside the LHC. Perhaps a real physicist could chime in with a more learned point of view.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    8. Re:a microscopic black hole won't hurt you by sconeu · · Score: 1

      Turns out that minimum-size black hole you'll need to destroy Earth is roughly the mass of Mt Everest.

      This must be why evil mad scientists are always found underneath large volcanoes. Everything is clear to me now.

      Well... that, and the unlimited geothermal power, and, of course, the availability of lava pools for unnecessarily slow dipping mechanisms!

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    9. Re:a microscopic black hole won't hurt you by HiThere · · Score: 1

      Are you sure? ISTM that it would initially prefer either electrons or protons, and when it had swallowed a couple of them it would repell any more. (Electrons are smaller, so it might prefer them, but they are also more uncertain as to their position, so it might prefer a proton.)

      So say it swallowed an iron nucleus. This would give it a strong positive charge, so it would repell any additional nucleus. The question is could it also swallow electrons, or would they go into orbit around it?

      *My* guess says that it would need to be sufficiently larger that gravitational effects would dominate over electromagnetic effects. OTOH, since 6 picometers is around 1000 times the size of an iron nucleus perhaps I'm overestimating the problem. That said, what's going to slow it down? This is an accelerator, so even if it created something with the mass of Mt. Everest, it wouldn't be at rest, and would, in fact, be moving far above escape velocity.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    10. Re:a microscopic black hole won't hurt you by lgw · · Score: 1

      I know the "proton-sized black hole with a positive charge" with an electron orbiting it has been studied - but I don't know what was concluded. But you won't get "orbits" out to maybe 3x the radius of a black hole, so no danger of that for the Everest hole.

      The LHC uses two beams colliding from opposite directions, so the total momentum of a collision is low. If most of the energy of collision goes into making the black hole, then the mass of the black hole would be much higher than whatever collided, and thus it's velocity would be much lower than the difference in momentum of those two particles.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    11. Re:a microscopic black hole won't hurt you by HiThere · · Score: 1

      Yes, it would be much lower. But that "much lower" would still be expected to be well above escape velocity. I mean the difference between 0.999...c (say 290,000 km/s) and 12 km/s is HUGE. (And I rounded the speed of the particle down, and escape velocity up.)
      Even a 99.99% cancellation of velocities would still be well above escape velocity. It's true, though, a 99.999% cancellation would be below escape velocity. That kind of efficiency after a collision seems (to me) unlikely.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  11. Re:have lot's of crowbars on hand by fisted · · Score: 2

    ...he was making a game reference, and what he got are unforeseen consequences. Sounds about right to me.

  12. Re:font size by ArchieBunker · · Score: 1

    Because they assume everyone uses a phone with a 4 inch screen.

    --
    Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
  13. Exotic Moon by Latent+Heat · · Score: 1

    You can see one of those a couple miles out on the highway out of town, but there is a 2-drink minimum . . .

  14. Cue Prof. Frink by Black+Parrot · · Score: 1

    "You can tell everyone that you were here when the human race learned...
    that this collider isn't powerful enough to tell us anything new.

    (Paraphrasing from memory - that ep was on last night.)

    --
    Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
  15. Much more than 40! by tlambert · · Score: 1

    Aren't there like 40 things called string theory, ranging from merely odd or unlikely all the way up to batshit crazy?

    Much more than 40!

    For every string theorist, there are two string theories (something to do with pair production....).

  16. ...and even more inaccurate than usual by Roger+W+Moore · · Score: 4, Interesting

    There are several mistakes in the article as well. Supersymmetry is not a consequence of String Theory. It was invented to explain the huge difference between the Higgs mass and the energy scale where gravity becomes important (the fine-tuning or hierarchy problem). It was only after its invention that String Theorists realized that they needed it to make their theories work. In fact it is entirely possible that Supersymmetry exists and String Theory does not whereas the reverse is far less likely so it is wrong to say that SUSY is a consequence of String Theory.

    Similarly the use of String Theory to solve non-perturbative QCD is not some new, fundamental principle but is simply a result of applying the maths developed for String Theory to a different problem. Hence studying the quark-gluon plasma is, at best, a test of some of the maths developed for String Theory but really tells us nothing at all about the physics. For a simpler analogy if you demonstrate that calculus works this does not imply that Newton's Laws of Motion are correct even though calculus was co-invented by Newton so he could write down and apply his laws.

  17. Re:They are just going to end it all. by budgenator · · Score: 1

    Dude If that thing spawns an "Earth eating black hole" living next door to it would be like about Mars. What everybody forgets is a blackhole has conservation of mass, charge and angular momentum, so a blackhole whizzing around the LHC ring would act pretty much like every other thingy whizzing around with the same mass, charge and angular momentum. Even if the blackhole escaped the ring, it would only be a blackhole as long as it's energy was high enough to maintain it's event horizon; that energy is dependant on it's velocity, which is a vector involving speed and direction! Yeah that's right a quantum blackhole can un-blacken if it collides with another particle and loses energy, it can un-blacken through Hawking radiation and it's only black if your close enough to it's direction of travel.

    --
    Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
  18. Re:have lot's of crowbars on hand by budgenator · · Score: 1

    Those 400MHz klystrons must have some hellatious waveguides to feed!

    --
    Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
  19. Watch Leonard Susskind in action by doom · · Score: 1

    If you'd like to actually know something about string theory, I suggest watching some of Leonard Susskind's lectures:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
    You will then be in the position of being able to intelligently criticize the theory, instead of quoting other people's jibes.
    Susskind is not interested in bullshitting anyone, by the way... quoting from memory: "This is why a lot of us found string theory to be so promising. And it keeps promising and promising."

  20. Re:have lot's of crowbars on hand by dave420 · · Score: 1

    You are making a (literal) surface judgement based on your own prejudices. You have conveniently ignored all other factors and accepted race as being the real driver, even when a rational person would evaluate all the evidence. If you looked at poverty instead of race, you would see that black people are far more likely to be poor, and poor people are far more likely to commit crimes. But that would not let you be a racist fuckhead, so I can understand why you ignored that and just went with your gut instinct of lazy, lazy racism. Your parents must be proud to have raised such an illogical, hate-filled muppet.

  21. Re:have lot's of crowbars on hand by Dog-Cow · · Score: 1

    Maybe the GP is female and enjoys having a real cock in her pussy, instead of the spaghetti noodle hanging off your crotch.

  22. Re:have lot's of crowbars on hand by stridebird · · Score: 1

    nicely put.
    i'm proud of yer, son,

  23. Re:Medium.com by jandersen · · Score: 1

    Can't we muster a popular appeal against posting vapid articles from medium.com here? Please? Or at least post them with a mandatory icon warning people that this is heavy on glossy pictures and light on worthwhile information?

    Who writes this stuff anyway? Clearly somebody with a strong interest in big photos of impressive looking things; whereas I suspect that most of us would be far more interested in good, solid, factual information, without illustrations, unless strictly needed. Is it 'samzenpus'? Does he/she have a glycerine complex?

  24. Re:have lot's of crowbars on hand by Tyrannicsupremacy · · Score: 1

    52% Of convicted murderers are black, is what he is trying to say, i think. In America, that would make a black person 700% more likely to commit murder than any other race.

    --
    http://i.cubeupload.com/T6cyLu.png
  25. String theory more like string queery by Tyrannicsupremacy · · Score: 1

    I'm not even a physicist and i could tell that string theory was BS just from listening to the proponents talk about it on documentaries.

    --
    http://i.cubeupload.com/T6cyLu.png
  26. Re:have lot's of crowbars on hand by Woeful+Countenance · · Score: 1

    It really is a lot like doing magic tricks for dogs.

  27. \r\0\0\0String Theory by DeVilla · · Score: 1

    There are safer ways to do it.