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Ask Slashdot: Switching Careers From Software Engineering To Networking?
An anonymous reader writes: I am a software engineer with over 10 years of experience making approx 210k a year after bonus. I've seen countless of software engineering jobs off-shored or taken by H1Bs over the past 5 years. While I am pretty safe at my current job, software engineering as a profession is beginning to look bleak, and i am not even sure if I can ask for the same money if I decide to jump ship to another company (I live in an expensive area).
A friend of mine who works as a network architect with dual CCIEs have no problem finding/landing jobs with high salary. His profession doesn't seem to be affected by outsourcing or H1bs, so I am tempted to switch from my field to networking for better stability and greener pastures.
So the question is, should I do it? The reason why I am looking for the long-term stability is because I've a family of 3 to feed. I cannot afford to be jobless for more than 3 months if I do get laid-off, and software engineering doesn't seem to be the profession after years of observation to provide long-term stability. Have a question for Slashdot's readers? Take a look at other recent questions first to see if someone else has had a similar question. And if not, ask away! The more details and context you include, the more likely your question will be selected.
A friend of mine who works as a network architect with dual CCIEs have no problem finding/landing jobs with high salary. His profession doesn't seem to be affected by outsourcing or H1bs, so I am tempted to switch from my field to networking for better stability and greener pastures.
So the question is, should I do it? The reason why I am looking for the long-term stability is because I've a family of 3 to feed. I cannot afford to be jobless for more than 3 months if I do get laid-off, and software engineering doesn't seem to be the profession after years of observation to provide long-term stability. Have a question for Slashdot's readers? Take a look at other recent questions first to see if someone else has had a similar question. And if not, ask away! The more details and context you include, the more likely your question will be selected.
You need investing advice more than career advice. After 10 years of work you should have much more than a three month cushion -
It sound like you have fallen into the trap of allowing your expenses to grow to consume all current income. That is going to be hard to reverse, and THAT is what you need some professional help with,
approx 210k a year after bonus.... I've a family of 3 to feed. I cannot afford to be jobless for more than 3 months if I do get laid-off
On your salary, you should easily be able to save years of buffer, at the rate of at least a year per year even if you live in an expensive area.
I have plenty of friends in an average priced area making around $40K/year and supporting families of 4 on that. It doesn't involve owning BMWs or big screen TVs or living in mansions and they penny pinch, but they get by okay on what they have. On over 5X that salary, even if your housing prices are several times higher, you should have no problem at all building a huge buffer for bad times if you need it - even with a more luxurious lifestyle than they are living. Years of buffer should not be a problem except when you are just starting out.
Perhaps some of the problem is money management, rather than your choice of career?
Doing a job for money, does not for-fill me. I have 5 to feed, so I understand the money side.
I have seen many in the IT world to be there only for money and NOT skill / passion for job. I work today with a group that mainly in it for money. No future planning on direction of the NETWORK or SOFTWARE. PS: I sit in both worlds.
If you love networking and think with single point failure issues, go for it.
If you are just doing it for money, find something else you enjoy. The money will come.
Been in computers now for 42years, not planning to give that world up any time soon.
If you're making 210K/year but are unable to save more than 3 months of living expenses, then you are living way, way beyond your means.
Yeah, I know that housing is expensive...so what, though -- everyone else in your area is also dealing with expensive housing, and probably most of them are making well under 210K. Given that service workers in your areas are raising a family on 50K-60K a year, you can surely afford to save far more than you currently are.
First and foremost, how can you possibly have let yourself get into a situation where $210k/year has you three paychecks away from being out on the street? You need to make some adjustments to your living situation ASAP -- get your budget under control, eliminate outstanding debts, etc. You are near the very top of the industry for software engineering compensation -- it's not a matter of the market not being stable (there's very high demand), it's that you're quickly pricing yourself out of the market.
Now onto the meat of your question -- you're not making a fair comparison. What would you think if your dual-CCIE friend saw your position and said they wanted to switch to software engineering because they have a friend with 10 years of experience in a high-level position who is making $210k/year?
Yes, there are people that make as much as you doing network architecture. That is the absolute top-level cream-of-the-crop of the network engineering industry. It takes 10+ years of experience to get there. You will not be there on day one, and you probably wouldn't be there after 5-10 years of hard work, either, unless you get extraordinarily lucky. Your software engineering skills have nothing to do with network engineering at any level, let alone network architecture, so you will start out in entry-level roles making 50-70k/year while you gain experience. You may get to the point after 5-7 years where you're clearing 100k if you're positioned properly and very lucky with the experiences you've gained.
Yes, network engineering is a great profession. No, you won't establish the same standard of living immediately, quickly, or even at all. Fix your personal problems and get your current life under control before you look at doing a major thing like shifting careers when you're currently at the height of your first career.
210k salary and you can't feed a family of 3.
Software engineering jobs are in ever more demand today, and you're talking about bleak prospects in a job which you say isn't going to fire you any time soon.
You talk about stability and jumping ship from a safe job in the same sentence.
Hmm.
Actually, what do you want? Or maybe you just hate software engineering as a job or career?
Don't quote me on this.
Sorry, I know this is going to sound "holier than thou", but it's still true: high cost area or not, if you can't live more than 3 months without a salary - and you're pulling down 210k (US$, right?) - then your first efforts need to go into a hard look at your financial priorities. With that salary, you ought to be able to put quite a bit aside - it certainly shouldn't be hand-to-mouth anymore. Even in a high-cost area, that's all true.
Brief aside: I assume you are in the US, where there is a lot of peer pressure to buy some awful McMansion that stresses your salary. This is a societal problem and one worth resisting. Even with 3 kids, you do not need 5000 square feet of house. Get a smaller, comfortable place to live and put you money somewhere more useful. If you're married, obviously your spouse needs to agree with this...
As for moving to networking, it all depends on how good you actually are. If you are worth 210k/year, then you are not easily replaceable. OTOH, if you have the feeling that you landed in the gravy by accident, because you aren't actually worth that kind of salary, then maybe you do want to change...
Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.
First, ignore the people who just want to shit all over you for making more money than them. They don't know anything about your situation and aren't qualified to comment. Savings and cash flow are two entirely different things, as I'm sure you know.
I've been in networking for about 20 years. I don't have a CCIE, but I've passed the written three times and sat for the lab once (I took a sales path instead). I have intimate knowledge of CCIE compensation. Starting level for a CCIE is around $135K, depending on where you live and what exactly you're doing. I believe there are salary surveys published every few years on this topic.
You will absolutely need extensive experience to become a network architect, though. The certifications would not be enough. Obtaining a CCIE is strenuous and would most likely require those years of experience anyway. You can do it, but it will take time and you will take a pay cut while you build your portfolio. Be aware, though, that networking is not immune to the outsourcing issues you're seeing in software.
As career changes go, networking is not a bad choice, but it won't be an immediate lateral move in terms of comp.
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
A couple of things come to mind beyond your current financial situation.
1) Dual CCIE is the absolute pinnacle of the field. Out of 50 million people in the world who do IT work, the 600-ish people in the world who have this combination of certifications are the top of their field. It generally takes 8-10 years of experience and dedicated study to get to this level. Did you think you would just walk in and get a CCIE in 3 months? The lab itself costs several thousand $$ and requires you to fly to California, where you do an 8-hour long practical exam. It's the top cert among Cisco's 15-18 different certs. Most people get at least 4 others before a CCIE.
2) A quick google on this topic turns up this quote, which is very apt: "Given equal intellectual capabilities and work ethic, 20 years of hands-on costs a lot more to an employer than 3 years of hands-on with 2 CCIEs, in most cases. Also, in most cases, a better investment." Ask your friend what his real world experience and the number of times he's deployed large scale complex WANs and various other technologies and remember that having that experience with dozens of networks is what makes him valuable. The cert is just the proof.
3) If you switch fields, you will start at $50-60k. That's what they pay network engineers with no experience. After 10 years and 6 or 8 certifications leading up to a CCIE, the median salary is $165k. Making $210 is very lucrative. I would find ways to save money now, rather than try to switch careers.
4) Your dream that somehow computer networking is immune to H1B is asinine. They will be outsourced and replaced at the same rate, with the same drivers and the same goals and outcomes.
> You should be able to afford to raise a family on half of that, even in the Bay Area... unless you keep buying new cars, bought a house you couldn't afford... and generally just represent the kind of person who the people who grew up in the area you moved into despise.
Actually, that's not true. Half that is $105k. Rent in the SF Bay for a 2 bed / 2 bath apartment within 30 minutes of that $105k job is going to costs you minimum $2.5k a month, more likely even $3k. So that's $36k a year, after tax. Your marginal rate at $105k is likely the 28% bracket. So $50k * 72% = $36k means it costs you $50k of your pre-tax income to pay for rent. Take the other $50k, chop off another 7.65% for OASDI / Med taxes = another $8k. State income tax will run another 5% ish, so another $5k. Suddenly your $105k has been dropped down to around $40k for the basic set of rent and taxes. And that's before you've even had a chance to pay for anything else - food, utilities, car, insurance, etc. And before you've put anything into savings.
I remember thinking back in the early 2000s that the "6 figure income" was the pinnacle of climbing out of the middle class into the start of the upper class. But the sad reality today is that with monetary inflation, demand inflation for living expenses, globalization, etc ... $100k is barely middle class anymore across many of the major metro areas in the United States. In the minor metro areas across the country, where populations in a 20 mile radius are under say 50k, you can still survive quite nicely on an $80k-ish income. But in major metro areas, especially with a family, that is not true anymore.
1. Way to mix the numbers up. You managed to work the numbers both ways, multiplying up to make an expense include taxes, while also dividing salary down to remove taxes, making the numbers really confusing
2. You cut his salary in half, then at the end claim there isn't much left to save. The half you cut is "savings".
3. 40k a year for the rest [food, utilities, car, etc] isn't crazy cheap. You don't have to scrimp every penny just to get by. Sure, you don't get to fly to EuroDisney for 3 weeks each year, but you totally can get by with that. If you want to.
Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!