Presidential Candidate Lincoln Chaffee Proposes That US Go Metric

New submitter Applehu Akbar writes: The good news is that for the first time in years, a candidate in the next presidential cycle has proposed completing our transition to the metric system. Though unfortunately it's Lincoln Chaffee, let's all hope that this long-standing nerd issue gets into the 2016 debate because of this. Warning: Lame CNN autoplaying video.

Comments

Meh

[maz2331]

It's a non-starter of a proposal from a non-starter of a candidate. There is no huge push in the US to go fully metric right now.

Re:Meh

[ArcadeMan]

You don't count (almost) all the other countries on the planet being metric as a huge push?

Re:Meh

[DrVxD]

Not in the US - since most of the inhabitants don't even realise there *are* other countries...

Re:Meh

[CrimsonAvenger]

No. I don't.

First off, it hardly matters to most people (American or foreign) whether we're metric or not.

Everything in the USA is sold with both SI and Imperial units (except shotgun ammo, of course, which as far as I know, is still sold in the rest of the world the same way it's always been - 12gauge, 16gauge, 20gauge), so it's not like the rest of the world is terribly handicapped figuring out US products, since they can look on the box.

Ditto foreign products sold here. Okay, it's metric. It'll generally have a line of print with Imperial measurements on it for the people who can't do the conversions in their head.

Only real difference is that the native SI stuff uses round numbers of SI units and odd amounts for the Imperial translations, while the native Imperial stuff has round numbers of Imperial units and odd amounts of SI units.

Face it, noone much cares whether the gas can for their lawnmower is 1 gallon (3.8L) or 4.0L, nor do they really much care which of those numbers is written in the fine print on the box....

Ditto for almost everything else....

Re:Meh

[cayenne8]

You don't count (almost) all the other countries on the planet being metric as a huge push?

No, not really.

The average American has very little to any interaction with anyone outside the US at all, much less one that would require much metric/imperial conversions.

It would cause more trouble than it's worth right now, a fiscal burden on an economy that is struggling still to get back on its feet.

I'd dare say if nothing else, there are MUCH more pressing issues that need to be addressed other than making everyone in the US have to go to their computer and do a conversion on the temperature being 30C to know how to dress to go outside after hearing it on the news in the morning.

Re:Meh

[clonehappy]

Insightful? Are you fucking kidding me? Even the dumbest boxes of rocks I've ever met realize that there is more than one country on this planet. Now, if it was a lame attempt at the tired, old, worn the fuck out *hurr, durr USAians dumb hehe* humor, then at least fucking mod it as such.

Re:Meh

[Rei]

2x4s, of course, aren't 2" by 4". They're approximately 1,5 by 3,5 inches. As for lengths, here in Iceland it's sold in meters. We refer to our weights in kilograms and our heights in centimeters. Butter is sold in 500 gram bars. Cans and bottles of beer are in millilitres; I don't know what they call the size of a glass at a pub because I don't drink. Anyway, it's really hard to think of things we use imperial units on. The one that comes to mind is TVs, they're in inches. I'm sure there's others - they just don't come to mind at the moment.

The British are famously not-metric (they even use miles for distance), and Canada has a reputation for only being half switched over, so you picked two of the worst examples you could. I found this map which seems to be more detailed than a simple "metric: yes or no?", although I don't know what the color codes mean (red is clearly "effectively 100% metric").

And no, people will not "use whatever they are used to". They'll use what's on the package and all of the road signs. They're not going to pull out a calculator and start running conversions. You move to a metric country, you just get used to how things "feel". You don't need to know the conversion factor for miles to kilometers, you just get used to the fact that a kilometer is basically a "short mile" and the like. You get used to "0C = freezing, 10C = jacket weather / layers, 20C = light long sleeves, 30C = short sleeves" etc. You don't run conversions, you just get used to the norms.

Re:Meh

[Anonymous Coward]

Just like most of the inhabitants of Europe don't understand that the USA is mind-boggingly huge and is only bordered by two countries.

Re:Meh

[nine-times]

I will also continue to argue that, while the metric system is great for math/science, it's actually not as good for some things in day-to-day life.

For example, measuring things in Kelvin may make a lot of sense in a lab, the Fahrenheit scale makes a lot of sense for measuring weather. In Fahrenheit, 0-100 degrees is roughly the range of temperatures that is habitable for people. And I know, it's not exactly the range of habitable temperature, but if there's a climate that spends a lot of time outside of that range, then people probably won't be very comfortable there. In Celcius, that translates into roughly -18 to 38, and Kelvin is 255 to 311. Those seem stupid and arbitrary by comparison. Also, if you measure only in 1 degree increments, Fahrenheit degrees are smaller and provide better resolution, though I suppose I can't tell the difference between 69 degrees and 70 degrees anyway.

But similarly, the length of feet and yards are pretty convenient for measuring spaces. Being a relatively average-sized man, my foot is about a foot long, for example. If I want to measure the size of a room, I can put one foot in front of the other and walk, counting my footsteps. In the end, I have a pretty good approximation. Measuring a person's height in feet also gives a range with pretty good resolution with adults typically being between 5 and 7 when you round. With meters, when you round, basically everyone is 2 meters tall.

I know some people won't quite get my point, or they'll say, "But metric is so much easier once you know it!" Really though, metric is only much easier when you're doing math. On a day to day level, most of us don't need to do enough math for it to matter.

Re:Meh

[IndustrialComplex]

Also, if you measure only in 1 degree increments, Fahrenheit degrees are smaller and provide better resolution, though I suppose I can't tell the difference between 69 degrees and 70 degrees anyway.

For me I like the precision when dealing with fevers. You have 6-7 degrees between healthy and ER.

Re:Meh

[PopeRatzo]

And that's what hobbles US products in the rest of the world.

I know, right? Nobody buys American products in the rest of the world.

Hell, last year, the US only shipped $1.623 trillion worth of goods around the globe, including over $219billion in machines, engines and pumps and $172billion in electronic equipment. And $135billion in vehicles. And $125billion in aircraft and spacecraft.

If we'd only adopt the metric system, we might sell some stuff.

Re:Meh

[ve3oat]

Ha! Yeah, well, Canada is just as huge and is only bordered by ONE country. And they use metric.

Re:Meh

[Etcetera]

I would also argue that the trivial benefits the imperial system has in being "good for some things in day to day life" are far outweighed by the inconvenience of every other country on the planet using a different measurement system.

Except it's not. Seriously, the average American is not inconvenienced in the slightest by using a different measurement system than "every other country on the planet." If you're constantly traveling internationally, sure, maybe. Or if you're in the import/export business. Otherwise there's essentially no drawback for the average US Citizen. And if your response to this is "Oh, well let's just make it inconvenient for Americans and then they'll *have* to change!" then you're what the average American hates about top-down social manipulation.

Judging from this thread, it's clear than non-Americans really don't understand much about Americans at all. Sure, they think they do... but they really don't.

Re:Meh

[printman]

Regular construction lumber is cut to size (2x4, 2x6, etc.) and then dried which removed substantial amounts of moisture, resulting in the (typical) 1.75 x 3.5" dimensions for a 2x4. What your father gets from the Amish is called "green wood" and has not been dried - over time it will dry out naturally and be the "expected" dimensions.

Dimensional lumber has exact dimensions (e.g. a 2x4 is actually 2" x 4") and is either cut to size after drying or cut large before drying so that the dried size is correct.

And then there are the "manufactured wood products" (plywood, hardboard, chipboard, MDF, project panels, etc.) which are sold using actual dimensions vs. pre-drying dimensions.

Re:Meh

[jedidiah]

You mean like US companies already produce products with metric measurements? The idea that the US is not metric is somewhat disengenuous. What the US is not is "forced metric".

US companies happily adapt to other countries (like in Europe) that make it a sort of fascist fetish.

But it's true that Americans simply don't care, and have no interest in change just for it's own sake.

Re:Meh

[vilanye]

It is more than change for it's own sake. The metric system actually makes sense and since Americans are mostly math challenged, they should be embracing the metric system.

Re:Meh

[Anonymous Coward]

Uh, ever heard of decimal places?

Re:Meh

[thegarbz]

For me I like the precision when dealing with fevers. You have 6-7 degrees between healthy and ER.

I enjoy blowing peoples minds: Have you heard of a decimal point?

First clue you aren't going to win

[SecurityGuy]

You're pushing an unimportant issue nobody cares about.

Really, with all the important issues that should occupy a president's attention, if this is even on your radar, you're not qualified for the job.

No one cares

[Karmashock]

All measurements systems are arbitrary.

the advantage of metric is that it is a global standard and the units are all divisible by ten.

That's it.

However in the US, we're familiar with the current system so it isn't a big deal... and the US has never really cared what was standard in other countries. We just don't care.

The US tried to go metric in the 1970s.

First, most people just ignored it and used the existing imperial system.

Second, it was the middle of a bad economic time and transitioning costs money because you have to change everything to suit the new system. It was just a tough sell in hard times.

Third... and this can't be stressed enough... I feel like the metric advocates really don't get this... Americans don't care about joining a global standard. At all. Not even a little.

When you factor it out, what you're left with is advantage of their divisible by ten units versus the more varied divisions in imperial.

That's pretty much it. And then you have to factor that Americans know imperial so it isn't a hardship to use it. And they don't know metric as well so it is inconvenient.

What does this leave us with? The US is not going metric any time soon. Just isn't happening.

Re:No one cares

[sverdlichenko]

Yes, this is exactly "go fuck yourself" kind of answer this quote saying about, ESPECIALLY in "numbers will be 2% off, so it doesn't matter if we do not calculate it at all" part. Thank you for providing such a perfect example.

Re:No one cares

[Karmashock]

As to your dig on the American people, I could say the same thing for europeans leaving europe. The difference is that your countries are smaller. How many europeans leave europe? About as many Americans as leave the United States. So your presumption of superiority is comical.

You're not leaving the EU and we're not leaving the US.

There are huge cultural differences around the country. if you think we're all one simple nation then you don't know anything about us. there are states that have as much different between them as finland versus greece.

Go to Alaska... go to Callifornia... to go New Mexico... go to Maine... go to Wyoming... go to Massachusetts. Very different places. There is no one European country with as much diversity as the United States. So presuming your little countries are the equlivant of ours is just ignorance on your part.

And yes... I've been to Europe... many times.

As to what you think of our measurement system... okay, but why do we "care" what you think? See... here is something I think you missed in the last statement from me.

We don't care.

Your opinion on the issue - Meaningless.

I won't tell you how to design the plugs you use in your walls and you don't tell me what units to buy my beef in.

American beef is awesome by the way. I feel so bad for Europeans when it comes to meat. Your meat is so bad compared to ours.

Anyway... rage on, hater. We're happy with it the way it is... :)

From wikipedia

[TsuruchiBrian]

A liberal Republican, Chafee was frequently ranked as the least conservative Senate Republican, and to the left of some conservative Democrats. He opposed eliminating the estate tax, voted to increase the top federal income tax rate, voted against allowing drilling in Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, supported an increased minimum wage and was the only Republican Senator to vote against authorising the use of force in Iraq. Chafee is pro-choice, supports same-sex marriage, affirmative action, gun control and federal funding for embryonic stem cell research and opposes the death penalty and a Flag Desecration Amendment to the United States Constitution.

I don't know what to make of this, but he seems better than all the Republicans running so far.

Re:But 'Murica?!

[Anonymous Coward]

Just shut up. Your kind of rhetoric is what's setting people on edge anymore. No wonder we can't get along when every conversation starts with an attack.

sigh

[argStyopa]

First, the US is officially metric.
The problem most non-Americans can't understand is that the US government/system ostensibly has few tools to compel this transition, CERTAINLY none that are worth political cost of using on an issue that most people don't give two shits about.
In short: the people who need/want metric use it.
The people who don't would strongly resist doing so.

Second: there's no "automatic" value inherent in the metric system. It's a SHIT TON easier to use with computers and calculators, certainly, as it's all decimal. But otherwise its less wieldy in daily use as 10 doesn't divide neatly by 3 or 4.
If your pro-metric argument is about the value of universalization, hell, we can't even agree that we should all speak ENGLISH in this country, and the 'universalization' value of that would be orders of magnitude more useful/immediate than all switching to a measuring system most of us don't use in the first place.

Re:It's the economy, stupid

[HornWumpus]

What? My Engineering degree is 30 years old. We did almost everything in school in Metric.

After school it's industry specific. But all common metric parts are readily available.