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Bell Media President Says Canadians Are 'Stealing' US Netflix Content

iONiUM writes: Today the Bell Media president claimed that Canadians are "stealing" U.S. Netflix, saying the practice is "stealing just like stealing anything else." She went on to say that it is socially unacceptable behavior, and "It has to become socially unacceptable to admit to another human being that you are VPNing into U.S. Netflix. Like throwing garbage out of your car window, you just don't do it. We have to get engaged and tell people they're stealing." Of course, I'm sure the fact that Bell Media profits from Canadian content has nothing to do with these remarks.

29 of 408 comments (clear)

  1. Socially Acceptable by bigfinger76 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    No, it's socially acceptable behavior. The industry may have disdain for it, but it is absolutely not frowned upon by society.

    1. Re: Socially Acceptable by Mister+Transistor · · Score: 4, Informative

      The president of Bell Media is a woman.

      --
      -- You are in a maze of little, twisty passages, all different... --
    2. Re:Socially Acceptable by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Not only not frowned upon, it's actively beneficial to all parties. The "problem" is market based pricing and region lockouts. That actively is socially unacceptable, unfortunately that doesn't really stop the idiots in question.

    3. Re: Socially Acceptable by rsilvergun · · Score: 5, Funny

      You wouldn't steal a policeman's helmet, shoot him, take a dump in the helmet, give it to his widow, then steal it back, would you?

      --
      Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  2. Right. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Tiniest violin in the world playing for this woman.

    1. Re:Right. by TsuruchiBrian · · Score: 5, Funny

      That had better be a Canadian violin, or else you are stealing.

  3. This is ridiculous by ZorinLynx · · Score: 5, Insightful

    - You are paying for the content. The same amount a customer in the US would pay.

    - You are watching the content.

    Why is this suddenly "stealing" if you are in Canada? It's the same content, and the content makers are getting the same money.

    1. Re:This is ridiculous by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Apparently, the head of a company that produces Canadian TV is butthurt about the fact that Canadians will go to extra inconvenience to avoid being stuck with her product and gain access to the US market. Intellectually dishonest and largely nonsensical argument; but the motives are clear enough.

    2. Re:This is ridiculous by Penguinisto · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Because the packets crossed an imaginary geophysical line to get to you, that's why!

      Now be a good citizen and support proper balkaniz^M taxatio^M patriotism!

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    3. Re:This is ridiculous by Dunbal · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Why is this suddenly "stealing" if you are in Canada? It's the same content, and the content makers are getting the same money.

      Because Bell Media which owns a television statement and has paid money for episodes of, say, Futurama, is pissed off that you can watch Futurama in Canada via Netflix and not only do they not get a cut, but they don't get to claim you as an ad viewer so they can bilk I mean charge their ad customers for you. They are a middleman, a dinosaur, and part of a broadcasting system that is increasingly irrelevant. If anyone is "stealing" it's these middlemen that produce no content and add no actual value, yet manage to slink their hand in your pocket every month.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    4. Re:This is ridiculous by Dunbal · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Unfortunately it works the way the money says it does. I wouldn't be surprised if the Canadian government suddenly sees the light and is persuaded to enforce criminal charges on VPN streamers. After all, who knows what other dirty little tricks they are getting up to on their VPNs. They're probably all terrorists anyway.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    5. Re:This is ridiculous by Zalbik · · Score: 4, Interesting

      then you're probably doing something wrong.

      I fail to see the immorality of my actions due to the fact that I circumvent a licensing agreement that I was not party to.

      Great, so Bell paid for an "exclusive" license for NBC content in Canada. Why should their agreement have anything to do with what sites I access? Last time I checked, Bell Media is not the governing body of Canada.

      For the end user this is neither a copyright violation nor a licensing violation. It may violate Netflix terms of service, but I do not believe that violating a websites terms of service is necessarily immoral.

  4. Good luck with that. by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    She is going to need a downright brilliant propaganda team to convince anyone that paying for netflix is 'stealing'; just because she doesn't like it.

    There's really not much difference between using a VPN to gain access to US electronic markets and using a car to gain access to US malls. Is it 'stealing' when a Canadian drives across the border and buys something in the US? Even by the standards of self-interested bullshit from incumbent monopolist assholes, this is unimpressive work.

    1. Re:Good luck with that. by Dunbal · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yeah you'd think these media giants would come out with their own streaming services instead of trying to fight the tide. Old-school top down TV is dead. People are sick of their shows being time-slotted according to some arbitrary station policy, are sick of having to wait weeks for the "next episode", are sick of not being able to re-watch a favorite episode and are sick of ads. Internet streaming is the future. Adapt or die.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
  5. Re:Hu ? by amiga3D · · Score: 4, Insightful

    She didn't get her cut.

  6. It's not stealing. by danbob999 · · Score: 4, Informative

    It might be a copyright violation however, since the intent of the distributor is to offer the content only in the USA.

  7. "stealing just like stealing anything else" by duckintheface · · Score: 5, Informative

    And this is the problem with industry thinking. It is NOT stealing. Copyrights, patents, and trademarks are separate types of law. They are NOT property law. If they were, we would not need a separate part of the Constitution (Art. 1, Sec 8) to define what they mean.

    Violating copyright is NOT stealing because the copyright is NOT property. The term "intellectual property" is an intentional obfuscation designed to blur the difference between universal ideas of property ownership and the proposition that ideas can be owned. Ideas can NOT be owned. Copyrights are just temporary monopolies for the purpose of encouraging the arts and sciences. They do NOT exist because "Hey, that's mine". They do not exist for the benefit of the copyright holder. They exist for the benefit of society as a whole. Don't believe me? Read Article 1, Section 8 of the US Constitution.

    --
    "He took a duck in the face at 250 knots." -- William Gibson, Pattern Recognition
    1. Re:"stealing just like stealing anything else" by msauve · · Score: 5, Insightful

      " Don't believe me? Read Article 1, Section 8 of the US Constitution."

      I don't believe you when you imply that the US Constitution applies to Canada, which is what the article covers. You'd do better to refer to the Statute of Anne, as Canada is a Commonwealth country.

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    2. Re:"stealing just like stealing anything else" by Zalbik · · Score: 5, Informative

      And this is the problem with industry thinking. It is NOT stealing

      No, the problem in this case is not only is it NOT stealing, it is not actually illegal.

      Accessing US Netflix outside of the US may break terms of use (which Netflix would have a VERY hard time winning a lawsuit over), but does not currently break any Canadian laws. No more than using a VPN to access any other website.

      This whole thing is bloody retarded. In this case, Canadians:
      - Pay for the content
      - Pay for the VPN to access the content

      At least if nothing else, this has convinced me to NEVER sign up for any Bell services.

    3. Re:"stealing just like stealing anything else" by FredGauss · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "At least if nothing else, this has convinced me to NEVER sign up for any Bell services."

      And of course this "moral stand" has nothing to do with subscriptions for Bell services...
      or maybe the fact that Bell is actively trying to gain traction for their own brew of Netflix (CraveTV) is mere coincidence.

    4. Re:"stealing just like stealing anything else" by BitterOak · · Score: 5, Informative

      Accessing US Netflix outside of the US may break terms of use (which Netflix would have a VERY hard time winning a lawsuit over), but does not currently break any Canadian laws.

      I wish that were true but it isn't. You'd be breaking copyright law. You're importing copyrighted content from someone without the legal authority to distribute said content in Canada. It isn't unusual for different companies to have exclusive rights to distribute in various countries, and the U.S. Netflix has no rights to distribute this copyrighted content in Canada. Therefore, in transferring the data from your VPN in the U.S. to your computer in Canada, you're copying copyrighted content which you have no authorization to do. That's illegal. I'm not saying I agree with this law, but it is wrong to say that what you're doing isn't illegal.

      --
      If I can be modded down for being a troll, can I be modded up for being an orc, or a balrog?
    5. Re:"stealing just like stealing anything else" by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 5, Informative

      > You're importing copyrighted content from someone without the legal authority to distribute said content in Canada.

      I thought both the US and Canada were signatories of the Berne Convention. So you're good to go paying for and importing individual works for personal consumption.

      It's not only not illegal. It's protected by treaty.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    6. Re:"stealing just like stealing anything else" by vux984 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      You're importing copyrighted content from someone without the legal authority to distribute said content in Canada.

      Hence the VPN. They are delivering the content to the US. The Canadian is then transporting it across the border, for person use (not redistribution).

      This is exactly as illegal as buying a DVD and a book from Sam's in the states, and then driving it home to Canada with you across the border. Which is to say, "not even slightly illegal".

    7. Re:"stealing just like stealing anything else" by Zalbik · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Many lawyers disagree with you (see the section headed "But is faking a U.S. IP address illegal?")

      Specifically:
      "Prof. Fewer said he doubts that the use of a VPN qualified as the breaking of a digital lock on a device designed to prohibit unauthorized copying, since it merely cloaks a user’s IP address."

    8. Re: "stealing just like stealing anything else" by bobbied · · Score: 5, Informative

      Awh come on people... Copyright infringement is a CIVIL law issue not a criminal offense.

      So the police may not be knocking down doors to stop you... However, they may be knocking ON your door to serve you with the lawsuit brought by the copyright owners and later assisting in the confiscation of damages when you have a judgment entered and have to pay.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    9. Re:"stealing just like stealing anything else" by vux984 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      But remember, when you do Netflix over a VPN, you are not importing a physical disk, but the logical data. It's very likely you are violating the terms of your Netflix subscription

      No question its a violation of my netflix subscription. But that is not even slightly illegal. They are welcome to terminate me as a customer if they don't want my money.

      as well as infringing on the copyright holder's rights to control where the work can be streamed

      Nope. Its being streamed in the USA. Once it hits my VPN its on my private network. The copyright holder has no streaming rights on the flow of information from the point at which i receive the stream to the point at which i view it. Just as I don't need a streaming license to transfer the data from the computer along a vga cable to the TV.

      but the copyright holder can sue you to recover damages.

      Sure. What damages though? I paid them for content that wasn't otherwise available; that I consumed in the privacy of my home. What material harm are they going to show the court exactly?

    10. Re:"stealing just like stealing anything else" by Darinbob · · Score: 4, Funny

      They have fewer words in the Canadian language. For convenience, all civil violations regarding copyright issues are called "stealing" there.

  8. Bell runs a competing streaming service... by Dzimas · · Score: 4, Informative

    What the article neglects to mention is that Bell recently started a competing streaming service called CraveTV. They have licensed some shows that are available on the US Netflix, so the only way for Canadians to watch them is to subscribe to CraveTV or use a VPN to access the American version of Netflix.

    Where things get really stupid is that Bell's $4 CraveTV service requires potential customers to subscribe to a Bell (or partner) cable or satellite TV plan in an effort to protect their traditional business. Have an OTA antenna on your roof instead? Tough. You don't qualify for their service.

  9. Market Segmentation should be socially unacceptabl by foreverdisillusioned · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Anyone who has passed an economics 101 class (micro or macro) should be grasp how this consumer discrimination stuff works: if the producer is able to discriminate against certain customers and offer different prices (and/or different products) then they are able to keep more surplus for themselves. It's blatantly anti-capitalistic in method and intent. If they are able to prevent arbitrage, if they can select and choose who has to pay how much and how (with no option of second sale), the free market breaks down entirely and what you end up with is simply one group fleecing another.

    It's unfortunate that the left doesn't have a good pejorative (as with "socialist" or "communist") to describe the right's anti-capitalist bullshit. Phrases like "corporate greed" are way too vague for this kind of thing.