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Intel Skylake & Broxton Graphics Processors To Start Mandating Binary Blobs

An anonymous reader writes: Intel has often been portrayed as the golden child within the Linux community and by those desiring a fully-free system without tainting their kernel with binary blobs while wanting a fully-supported open-source driver. The Intel Linux graphics driver over the years hasn't required any firmware blobs for acceleration, compared to AMD's open-source driver having many binary-only microcode files and Nouveau also needing blobs — including firmware files that NVIDIA still hasn't released for their latest GPUs. However, beginning with Intel Skylake and Broxton CPUs, their open-source driver will now too require closed-source firmware. The required "GuC" and "DMC" firmware files are for handling the new hardware's display microcontroller and workload scheduling engine. These firmware files are explicitly closed-source licensed and forbid any reverse-engineering. What choices are left for those wanting a fully-free, de-blobbed system while having a usable desktop?

19 of 193 comments (clear)

  1. rootkit? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Q: What guarantee do we have that these binary blobs don't contain root kits?
    A: None.

    This really isn't acceptable. :(

    1. Re:rootkit? by CaptainJeff · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The same guarantee that the microcode running in the GPU itself doesn't have any rootkits. Or that the microcode in the CPU itself doesn't. Or the rest of the chipset. etc.

    2. Re:rootkit? by WaffleMonster · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Q: What guarantee do we have that these binary blobs don't contain root kits?
      A: None.

      This really isn't acceptable. :(

      This is madness. They own the hardware. If you don't trust the vendor they can still screw you in hardware. Your fucked either way.

      I don't recall people bitching about CPU microcode or any of a dozen subsystems in a typical computer which run on closed proprietary firmware.

      I actually think this is something we should be encouraging more of. What is dangerous is systems downloading firmware from onboard field upgradable roms because attackers have leveraged these vectors to destroy gear and persist ownage even after compromised systems have been completely wiped.

    3. Re:rootkit? by Megol · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Are you aware that Intel (and AMD) have binary blobs combined with strong encryption and cryptographic signatures loaded into their processors? That those blobs can change execution behavior of individual instructions with essentially* no way to detect them? Those are called microcode updates and even if you disable loading new versions of microcode in the BIOS they are delivered with a standard one in onboard ROM.

      (* statistical analysis using several processors of the same stepping running in identical systems but with different microcode revisions may work, no guarantee though)

    4. Re:rootkit? by Pinky's+Brain · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Between UEFI and SMM I consider x86 a rootkit, period.

    5. Re:rootkit? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      This is madness. They own the hardware. If you don't trust the vendor they can still screw you in hardware. Your fucked either way.

      Wrong. I would own the hardware; they just manufactured it. That's is still a distinction that matters, albeit, barely.

  2. mandate? by NostalgiaForInfinity · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They aren't "mandating" anything. You buy their product, and they provide some closed source software with it that you need to get some of the functions. It sucks, but it isn't a "mandate".

    You might want to consider letting it not bother you too much, though. After all, these chips have been full of proprietary code in the equivalent of ROM for a long time. The fact that some of it is migrating into RAM doesn't really change things very much.

    If you really don't like loading proprietary blobs from RAM, use embedded processors; they usually don't do that because it wouldn't work very well in their environment.

    If you really want to run a "fully-free, de-blobbed system", you need to get an open source processor and an open source motherboard.

  3. Choices by OzPeter · · Score: 1, Insightful

    What choices are left for those wanting a fully-free, de-blobbed system while having a usable desktop?

    How about don't use these new systems? And keep on using what you have used in the past?

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  4. Move To France by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Be a conehead. Use that telex machine thing. Be a pepper. Go for it. Be all you can be. Aim high. Jump in a lake. Just not a skylake. Partake of toe jam and jelly not found in any store. Worship his holiness.

  5. Only kinda sorta by rsilvergun · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Intel's latest gen APU hangs with AMDs, but it's also almost twice the price, and that's before you factor in that the AMD board is cheaper and they tend to have better combos on Newegg. I can get a 7850k with a good board and 8 gigs of ram for $236 bucks. The equivalent i5 setup is going to be $450.

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    1. Re:Only kinda sorta by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You guys are all missing the point. We all know Intel CPU is faster than AMD CPU, and that AMD has had better day.

      AMD's APUs have to date had faster graphics and Intel's integrated graphics have lagged behind. The grandparent points out that the brand new i5-5675c narrows that gap or exceeds AMD integrated graphics performance.

      Just the i5-5675c is going to go for $276 in quantity initially. Predictably, like any rational vendor, Intel is going to charge for the privilege of using this new silicon with good integrated graphics for awhile. So the equivalent i5 setup is indeed going to be more than the 7850k setup with RAM that costs the grandparent $236.

    2. Re:Only kinda sorta by beelsebob · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, it doesn't "hang with" AMD's latest APUs, it's about 40% faster in terms of graphics performance and roughly 100-200% faster in terms of CPU performance, all while consuming roughly half the power.

      If that's not worth twice the price, I don't know what is.

  6. 5M backers @ $1000 each? Maybe by davidwr · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Maybe, but you'll have to have an awfully attractive proposal and back it with heavyweight talent that already had a good reputation for delivering the goods.

    For example, if a major video card vendor went belly-up for reasons not related to their tech (i.e. for plain old poor business practices) and their best coders banded together and started a kickstarter with a goal of $5B above and beyond the $1B they were personally tossing into the pot, they'd get my attention. But then again, they probably would be looking for traditional venture capital funding rather than kickstarter-type funding.

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  7. Why do people even care about this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If it weren't for the fact that these binary blobs are updateable, no one would care. For example, your hard disk certainly has a "binary blob" in the form of its firmware, but because the OS isn't able to update it, no one cares and happily ignores it. However, the moment someone releases a hard drive where the OS can supply the binary blob so that the hard disk firmware is easily updated, the open source community will immediately reject this new device even though the only difference between it and the old device is that the old one, in the event of a firmware bug, could not be updated and simply remained unreliable for the lifetime of the device.

    Indeed, that's probably what is happening here. Intel likely had such code in their cards all along, but previously the code was in a non-reprogrammable ROM. Now they've decided to add a new feature to their cards to allow bugs that are discovered in this code to be corrected, and everyone is simply going to complain about it. They were happy when no one could access the code and fix the bugs, but now that Intel can do it, they're not willing to accept not being able to do it themselves as well.

    It's rather silly. Just imagine if the card could accept a binary blob, but refused it if it didn't match cryptographic checksums in the hardware that cannot be updated. It would be effectively the same as if the firmware were stored in a ROM in the hardware itself in that no one would ever be able to modify that code, but you can still bet that the open source community would be up in arms over not having access to the source code simply becase, whenever they can touch binary code, they're unable to accept the fact that they don't have the source to that binary code.

  8. Re:Why this presumption that you need 3D accelerat by Gadget_Guy · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Your dictionary pedantry adds no value and in fact obscures the issue.

    Well said. Being right is never a substitute for feeling righteous.

  9. I've personally fixed bugs by Chirs · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I did kernel hacking for 10 years. I've fixed bugs in Ethernet drivers and helped document (and work around) hardware errata. I've also had to deal with trying to rebuild Nvidia drivers when the binary blob was no longer compatible with the latest kernel source. Having open-source drivers is key for those of us that actually *do* work on this stuff.

    1. Re:I've personally fixed bugs by dgatwood · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Same here, though for me, it was ATA and USB HID devices. As a programmer, nothing annoys me more than running into bugs and thinking, "I could fix this in two minutes if I had the source," and not being able to fix it because I don't. I've fixed bugs in many other people's code on many occasions simply because they annoyed me.

      With that said, I've never seriously entertained touching a GPU driver; I think that might very well be the special hell that Captain Reynolds was talking about. :-)

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  10. Re:This matters because... by Immerman · · Score: 5, Insightful

    While I'm inclined to dismiss binary blobs as largely innocuous in most scenarios, you are oversimplifying things considerably.

    1) Just because *I* don't have the time or interest to modify display firmware, doesn't mean I'm not in a position to benefit from *other people* doing so. Witness the entire Linux infrastructure, which owes its existence to the fact that the software stack of the time was NOT locked down, and critical hardware was all reasonably well documented.

    2) The binary blobs are themselves dangerous - driver software is typically running with very high security clearance, and you have absolutely NO idea what is going on inside those blobs. Couple that with the fact that we now KNOW the NSA (and presumably other organizations as well) have actively recruited several major companies to collaborate in compromising the security of commodity hardware, and we're in the position of being completely unable to trust ANY binary-blob software in a security-critical scenario. Since Intel was pretty much the go-to option for decent(ish) fully open-source display accelerators, that alone validates a subset of the original question: What are our options now if we want a modern desktop that can be be audited for security?

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  11. Re:This matters because... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    At this point you may have to keep your new computers on their own network that is not attached to the Internet. Use the older computers where such a security audit is necessary and only allow them onto the Internet.

    Besides binary blobs as security problems, we also do not know everything we need to about the rest of the hardware in the system. Anyone that can acquire computer hardware from the last 15 years and Internet access for less then a day can get a system up and running with tools to compile software with. That's a pretty low barrier to entry, especially considering you can teach yourself to program for free with books from the city library. Sure, they are old, but its still coding.

    Can't do that with hardware. Even if you can learn how to model and design hardware, you still need access to a fabrication factory to make your parts. This will cost a lot, especially if your first design isn't perfect.

    We're screwed for the time being.