Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Colosseum Lift That Carried Wild Animals Into Arena Rebuilt

Posted by samzenpus on from the going-up dept.

An anonymous reader writes: Archaeologists have built a replica of the lift that was used to move lions and other wild animals into the Colosseum 1,500 years ago. It is estimated that a million animals may have been killed in the history of the arena. It took a year and a half for the archaeologists and engineers to build the 23ft-high timber lift, using only materials that would have been available to the ancient Romans. Gary Glassman, a director who made a documentary about the project said, "One of the reasons we are attracted to the Colosseum is because of the incredible violence that went on here. The question it poses is, how could such an advanced culture have staged such bloody spectacles? The Colosseum is a snapshot in stone, a physical embodiment of the culture of Rome."

11 of 176 comments (clear)

  1. Let me answer this question: by iamwhoiamtoday · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "How could such an advanced culture have staged such bloody spectacles?"

    Because however you doll up humanity..... people are very primal under the surface, and are capable of a great many violent things.

    1. Re:Let me answer this question: by geekmux · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "How could such an advanced culture have staged such bloody spectacles?"

      Because however you doll up humanity..... people are very primal under the surface, and are capable of a great many violent things.

      And however you doll up humanity today, it is merely an illusion that anything has changed since then.

    2. Re:Let me answer this question: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "How could such an advanced culture have staged such bloody spectacles?"

      Easily. Because being "advanced" do not in any way imply that a culture abstain from killing and violence. A culture may excel in various technologies, military power, and arts. It may or may not value nice behaviour - that is orthogonal!

      Romans had their period of glory - and violent entertainment. Later governments organized witch hunts & public burnings. Then a colonial era with lots of unnecessary violence, done by 'advanced cultures of the time.' Then a certain advanced culture arranged the holocaust.

      I am not even counting the various wars - wars are necessarily bloody and violent. We are lucky to live in times where the leading cultures value life for its own sake - to some extent.

    3. Re:Let me answer this question: by antiperimetaparalogo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "How could such an advanced culture have staged such bloody spectacles?"

      Because however you doll up humanity..... people are very primal under the surface, and are capable of a great many violent things.

      And however you doll up humanity today, it is merely an illusion that anything has changed since then.

      Almost half a *millenium* before the Romans built Colosseum (and had their bloody spectacles in it - including killing Christians!), (we) Greeks had fought the Persian invadors and won - one of those Greeks fighting against them, Aeschylus (who was so proud for this that asked to be the only thing mentioned in his grave), wrote a tragedy called "The Persians": instead of writing "Greece... fuck yeah... we fucked you barbarians!", he mostly wrote about the psychological drama experienced by the Persians back home, in a way that... well, i watched this tragedy performed in one of our ancient Greek theaters, and i felt pity for the Persians!

      My point is that "Humanity" it too "big" of a word to make such statements about how it is an illusion that has changed - it is surely better today than what it was at the Colosseum times (but at that time it was worse than what it was when Greeks were "in charge" of humanity!). BUT today we have the "Muslim world" (doing what we all know) against the Western (Greek-Roman AND Christian) Civilization.

      Humanity must choose its civilization.

      --
      Antisthenes: "Wisdom begins by examining the words/names." - excuse my English, i am (slightly...) better with my Greek!
    4. Re:Let me answer this question: by antiperimetaparalogo · · Score: 4, Insightful
      I seriously fail to understand how we, the Western (Greek-Roman AND Christian) Civilization, "provoke the Muslims" (and "in a way that it has never done to us"?!), plus, that (general) Western (Greek-Roman AND Christian) Civilization can be adopted by anyone who wants to be civilized* (and since i am a Greek that mentioned the Persians: Persians, who had a civilized enough culture before they were forced to become Muslims, have done it in some extend, so, excluding their current barbaric Muslim religion, they are civilized enough "barbarians", surely more than any Arab for example - take it from a Greek, a couple of milleniums "old enemy" of the Persians!). If we stop interacting with the "Muslim world" (something that many Muslim want, BUT MANY WESTERNERS WANT ALSO!), what you think will be the outcome for the Muslims? And did you know that it is Muslims those who ask from us, Westerners, to "interact", and then, the same people, call that a "provocation" - i surely don't understand why it is our fault!

      * Let's not start a "relevitism" of the "what you mean civilized?" type.

      --
      Antisthenes: "Wisdom begins by examining the words/names." - excuse my English, i am (slightly...) better with my Greek!
    5. Re:Let me answer this question: by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's more fundamental than that. In those days a lot of people died from things that are unimaginable in modern developed nations. Starvation, lack of clean water, lack of basic medicines, war and lawlessness. Most people didn't live much beyond 30 anyway, and by that age tended to have severe "disabilities", for want of a better word (even poor eyesight was uncorrectable and could prevent someone working effectively).

      So life was cheap. Rome needed big armies and needed a system that would integrate the less civilized people it subjugated into its society. Thus the Roman system, where anyone could become a citizen by serving the empire, was created. Equally those who were not citizens didn't have rights or legal protections (a bit like how the US treats non-US citizens today), and really were seen as property and somewhat sub-human, or at least sub-citizen, in the same way that for example black people were at times in the last few hundred years. So lacking any useful entertainment skills and otherwise being of little use, literally throwing them to the lions made a kind of sense.

      There was also the punishment aspect. Some parts of the world still kill people convicted of crimes, and allow others to watch (although they would say it isn't for entertainment). Fear helped keep people in line, much like how these days fear of terrorism is used for the same purpose. Do as we say, or die (in the arena / in a terrorist attack).

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  2. How is it by SuperKendall · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The question it poses is, how could such an advanced culture have staged such bloody spectacles?

    So I take it you've not seen a movie made in the last 20 years?

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re: How is it by viperidaenz · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No, but we like to watch people get killed in movies.
      The Romans didn't have the technology to fake it like we do.

    2. Re: How is it by martin-boundary · · Score: 3, Insightful
      That depends. This may be an unpopular point of view to some here, but the value of people depends on supply and demand, just like the value of goods. To lower the value of people in a country, all it takes is a large increase in population way beyond the required workforce and the available resources. Below a certain value, people will become disposable entities just like the slaves in Roman times. In some of the poorest countries around the world, this is partially happening. In the richer countries around the globe, this could also happen, either because our mix of resources and work changes too radically for our population at some point, or because the poor from other countries flee their homes in extreme numbers at some point.

      We can't assume that human life will always be valued in the future like it is now.

  3. Confused documentary maker. by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1, Insightful

    how could such an advanced culture (as Rome) have staged such bloody spectacles?

    How could such an advanced culture (as ours) have prominent media people who confuse "advanced" with "non-bloody" (or "squeamish")?

    Answer: Freedom of speech and of the press. Even the clueless can be read and heard by millions.

    Meanwhile, our culture seems to be decaying in much the pattern of Rome's. Let's hope that, if we can't fix it, it takes as many centuries to fall, rather than going down "in internet time" or "as we approach the singularity".

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  4. Re:think of advanced civilisations in fiction by ljw1004 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Think of advance civilizations in fiction... See, the Romans had it right. Give the plebs just enough food to survive and keep them entertained, they stay compliant and content. Hence, "Bread and Circuses".

    Don't you think the fiction *copied* from past human cultures, particularly the Romans?