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Self-Driving Cars To Transform Insurance and Other Industries

MarkWhittington writes: The advent of commercially available self-driving cars is about five years away, but already some are thinking about how they will disrupt the economy and how society operates in general. One industry likely to suffer is that of auto insurance. Since the vast majority of auto accidents are caused by human error, having more autonomous vehicles on the road will almost assuredly result in fewer overall accidents. Further, once we've transitioned to a society that mostly gets around using self-driving vehicles, most accidents will be the result of hardware and software malfunctions. Insurance for self-driving cars would more resemble product liability coverage than the sort of auto insurance we have today. Indeed, the technology will also likely impact diverse industries such as auto mechanics, taxi services, and health care, as well as policing.

42 of 389 comments (clear)

  1. Insurance companies suffer? by taustin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Really? As long as liability insurance is mandatory, and comprehensive required for as long as you have load on the car, and as long as it takes action on the part of a state legislature followed by years of court battles to force insurance companies to lower rates, no, insurance companies will not suffer from lower accident rates.

    In fact, in most states, they will probably use the changing market as an excuse to raise rates, knowing they will continue to sell the same number of policies while paying fewer claims.

    Anybody who believes that the legal requirements for insurance will change for self driving cars is smoking dope.

    1. Re:Insurance companies suffer? by fustakrakich · · Score: 2

      We must demand no-fault insurance... It is the only correct solution

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    2. Re:Insurance companies suffer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      Insurance companies can only raise rates if they can prove that their losses are higher than their permissible loss ratio. Almost all states require a filing that follows standard actuarial procedures in order to prove it. A lot of states, like California, have strict requirements on how much rate can be taken, and how much your permissible loss ratio can be. Some states are now banning the use of price optimization, which eliminates any possibility of using non-loss information to set rates. Insurance companies can't raise rates due to the "changing market".

      So yes, in the long run the insurance companies will suffer to some degree. But, it just means that they need to change their business model.

    3. Re:Insurance companies suffer? by frovingslosh · · Score: 4, Informative

      Absolutely. As long as the insurance companies keep the lawmakers in their pocket, they will only gain by fewer accidents. If you have liability insurance (the only type that is legally required by most state laws), you are required to have it on each vehicle that you drive (even if there is only one licensed driver in the household). Yet the driver can only drive one vehicle at a time. The industry claims the insurance is on the vehicle and not the driver, but that argument wears thin as soon as you have a teen driver in the household or the driver get into an accident or even gets a ticket. The insurance is clearly on the driver, but the industry is allowed to charge for it for each vehicle. One obvious problem with this is that we claim to want to reduce pollution and improve air quality and have poured millions and millions of tax money into private industry all electric vehicles like the Volt. But because of the limited range, many people who would buy a Volt don't get one because they would have to have a second vehicle for longer trips if they did (particularly in single driver households) and be charged liability insurance on both.

      Personally, I drive a larger vehicle than I would like. I do so because I feel that I need to ability to haul things around occasionally. If I could have a smaller vehicle without the double hit on liability insurance I would also have a small two seat vehicle (or maybe even one, or a motorcycle). The insurance company would win because statistically I could do less damage when I drove the smaller lighter vehicle, but they have their hooks into the lawmakers and they insist that they deserve the insurance payment on each vehicle even when there are more vehicles than drivers in a household.

      --
      I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
    4. Re:Insurance companies suffer? by CanHasDIY · · Score: 2, Informative

      We must demand no-fault insurance... It is the only correct solution

      Shitty driver?

      You realize that "no-fault" really translates to "everyone pays," right? Why should I have to pay because some dumbass was texting and crunched my ride?

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    5. Re:Insurance companies suffer? by fustakrakich · · Score: 2

      Nope, record's clean.

      You're paying anyway. I want to make sure I get paid if my ride gets crunched. No-fault is the closest thing to a guarantee that I'll get.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    6. Re:Insurance companies suffer? by gstoddart · · Score: 5, Interesting

      More than that ... if we have self driving cars, why would I pay for insurance at all?

      So that some company can sell me a product which mostly works, and when it fails will throw control over to me and make it my liability?

      Yeah, sorry ... but no.

      Your car is either autonomous, and whoever made it/is responsible to maintain it pays the liability .. or it will hand back to me when it runs out of options, in which case I'll just drive the car myself because I don't trust it.

      Either we trust the autonomous cars, or we don't. But I'm not taking any liability for it, and I'm sure as hell not paying for liability for it.

      That's just companies wanting the best of both worlds.

      You want autonomous cars, fine, then I'm a passenger with no controls. At which point these things are only economically viable in a rental model ... because why the hell would I pay to own one?

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    7. Re:Insurance companies suffer? by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 2

      If you have liability insurance (the only type that is legally required by most state laws), you are required to have it on each vehicle that you drive (even if there is only one licensed driver in the household). Yet the driver can only drive one vehicle at a time.

      But, with autonomous vehicles, this is not quite true anymore. You can "drive" to work, then send the car home driverless.

      Which also means that your wife won't necessarily need her own vehicle, since your car will be home for her to use right up till it has to go fetch you (feel free to substitute "husband" for "wife" above, as well as pronouns to taste).

      Ditto the teenagers. Maybe they need a car, maybe not. Just depends on how many different people in the family need to be on the road at once (and not "in different place", "on the road" only).

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    8. Re:Insurance companies suffer? by DarkOx · · Score: 2

      Don't you seem to want it both ways too. You have to have some responsibility for your car. Ever see someone have a suspension collapse? That does not just happen, that happens because the dipshit could not be arsed to either look at or have someone look at the suspension to make sure it was not dangerously corded and that rubber bushings were not failing etc.

      You can automate most aspects of something like a car, but this is a high performance machine that operates in a wide variety of weather and abusive conditions. It has to be serviced and inspected from time to time. dipshit who does no do that now isn't going to start when the thing becomes more automatic than it already is, (s)he will pay even less attention.

      So the automaker supposed to be on the hook because YOU last decided to check break fluid six years ago?

      --
      Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    9. Re:Insurance companies suffer? by Ravaldy · · Score: 2

      Insurance is a collective cushion. We all pay so that it doesn't ruin our lives should something happen. Those more prone to accidents or with bad records pay more to compensate.

      You don't need to have life insurance because your death is really only your problem but a car collision is a problem for everybody involved.

    10. Re:Insurance companies suffer? by gnasher719 · · Score: 2

      Personally, I drive a larger vehicle than I would like. I do so because I feel that I need to ability to haul things around occasionally.

      Don't get it. When I need it, I hire a truck. 7.5 ton truck for a day is quite cheap. And that's something I'd never want to drive on a daily basis.

    11. Re:Insurance companies suffer? by lgw · · Score: 2

      You might find a few minutes reading how car insurance works educational, as well as this from another company, just to have more than once source. Arguing from a position of factual error doesn't help your cause, and doesn't might you look bright.

      You might also want to think through the likely consequences of removing the current serious financial penalties for being a bad driver. Or do you not care about any of that, and all you really want is government takeover of some industry, regardless of downsides? If that's your agenda, don't hide it behind distractions.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    12. Re:Insurance companies suffer? by prgrmr · · Score: 2

      No it doesn't, the government here just pretends that it does. The first time you get side-swiped by some idiot in a pickup truck who is too busy texting to pay attention, and then find out they don't have insurance and the court doesn't really take seriously at all the promise to be financially liable that everyone signs when they get their drivers license, your insurance goes up because the court orders your claim to be covered by your uninsured drivers rider on your policy. And the texting, jobless, insurance-less idiot gets to keep his license. He also gets to do some BS do-nothing community service hours with the Red Cross or the YMCA in exchange for paying the fine on the traffic ticket, which means there is zero incentive to have insurance if you cannot afford it. Or to be a good driver, for that matter.

      New Hampshire does a lot of things well using the minimalist government approach, but auto insurance is definitely not one of them.

    13. Re:Insurance companies suffer? by taustin · · Score: 2

      You don't have to in California, either. The insurance company informs them when you have a policy, electronically, automatically. You are supposed to be completely unaware of the process . . . unless you're a vile, disgusting lawbreaker who doesn't have insurance (which is a misdemeanor in California - a jailable offense). I believe they also automatically inform DMV if you - or the insurance company - cancel your policy, too, so that you can't get a year long policy, then pay only one month.

      I'd be surprised if there isn't a similar system in your state.

    14. Re:Insurance companies suffer? by taustin · · Score: 2

      You've changed your story from "I want my car paid for in an accident" to "I want to force other people to act in a particular way." One is about taking care of yourself. The other is about exerting power over other people. They are completely different desires.

      You should give some serious thought to what, exactly, you want, because the first thing you said is already available to you, unless you're too cheap to buy it, and the second is already required by law everywhere in the civilized world.

    15. Re:Insurance companies suffer? by CanHasDIY · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, I want to make sure everybody has liability insurance to pay for expenses when they cause a wreck.

      That's not the same thing as "no-fault."

      "no-fault" implies that regardless of how the collision occurred, everyone pays for their own stuff. Like in parking lots.

      See, that works in parking lots because it's often hard to determine who screwed up, especially considering how poorly some lots are marked.

      It does not work that way on public streets, for lots of reasons. Namely because innocent parties who are harmed by the negligence of others shouldn't, per our legal system, be required to bear the burden of that other person's mistake.

      A "no-fault" world would mean that if you were crossing an intersection and got t-boned by a drunk driver who failed to stop at the red light, your family would pay for your medical expenses, funeral, etc, and Drunk Moron would only have to pay for the damage to his own vehicle.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    16. Re:Insurance companies suffer? by linuxrocks123 · · Score: 2

      Good salesmen get overpaid in every field. They also are under intense pressure to perform and get fired/laid off if their numbers go down, for any reason. High-stress, high-risk, high-reward.

      High-powered salesmen will probably migrate to other fields after self-driving cars take over, because all the money will drop out of the market when rates go way down because there are such fewer accidents.

      --
      vi ~/.emacs # I'm probably going to Hell for this.
    17. Re:Insurance companies suffer? by linuxrocks123 · · Score: 2

      Why don't we just have the car's computer check for faults and not operate if any are detected? For non-critical situations, have the screen say, "service needed, car ceases operation in 200 miles" when a worn component is detected, and then count down the miles right up to the turn-off point if the owner doesn't take the car in. If you let that counter go to 0, you're a dimwit, and now you have to tow your car to the repair shop.

      Government regulation is good for this kind of safety feature.

      --
      vi ~/.emacs # I'm probably going to Hell for this.
    18. Re:Insurance companies suffer? by Richard_at_work · · Score: 2

      Why was the subcompacts insurance responsible in that scenario?

      In the UK that would be a clear cut case of the larger vehicle that rear-ended the subcompact being in the wrong (driving without due care and attention, failure to maintain a required stopping distance etc) - in the UK, cases of rear ending are very hard to fight in court from the aspect of the person doing the rear ending, you have to have some very good evidence to prove that you were not doing anything wrong (eg you were driving along as normal, maintaining correct stopping distances etc, when suddenly someone pulls directly in front of you and slams their brakes on causing you to go into the back - if you have a forward facing camera in that circumstance, you could fight it, but otherwise you will be paying up).

  2. Five years away? by ArcadeMan · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Is that the same kind of years that are used by a lot of other technological advances? Because if it is, we won't have commercially available self-driving cars before 2040.

    And by then, I hope they're freakin' flying cars, too.

    1. Re:Five years away? by PRMan · · Score: 2

      I have a mostly self driving car right now (I put on the cruise control and it won't hit the car in front of me). Does this give me ANY reduction in my auto insurance rates? I keep on waiting, but so far no.

      --
      Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
    2. Re:Five years away? by tompaulco · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Is that the same kind of years that are used by a lot of other technological advances? Because if it is, we won't have commercially available self-driving cars before 2040.

      And by then, I hope they're freakin' flying cars, too.

      I like how the article is written, "Unsupported and extremely unlikely assumption is true. Based on that unsupported assumption, everybody will start behaving according to another unsupported assumption. Once this happens, the only accidents will be due to a third unsupported assumption. Given all this, how does this affect the insurance industry?"
      Well, I say who cares? The first assumption is not likely to occur. The second one presumes that everybody will accept this and completely change their lifestyle to not own a car. The third one assumes that only hardware and software errors could possibly cause a crash. Once you pile conjecture upon conjecture upon conjecture, it is not even worth talking about it.

      --
      If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
    3. Re:Five years away? by jamesborr · · Score: 4, Insightful

      These cars might work out fairly well in sunny southern California -- but the NorthEast during significant parts of our driving season? I drive an AWD drive sedan with studded snow tires from November to April, and when one gets into not too atypical conditions (snow/ice covered highways, no lane markings visible, snowing/reduced visibility, etc.) -- driving becomes almost a black art. You can forget about cruise control in these conditions -- unless to have a strong desire to end up in a ditch. Nuance is the rule, and the expectation that your vehicle will go where you steer/drive/stop to -- well, you are more hopeful then I am in these conditions. Turn down the radio, turn off cruise control, light touch on the wheel, paranoia re: other cars on the road -- assume the worst, etc... My suspicion is that self driving cars will resolve this issue by significant slowing, which then presents is own set of danger issues (i.e. everyone else on the road expects traffic moving 50+ even in fairly bad conditions, and cars going 10 or 15 in limited visibility on divided highways -- well, I wouldn't want to be around for the resultant carnage...

    4. Re:Five years away? by Ravaldy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It all comes down to having the right sensors and the right algorithm to handle the situations. The fact is that the computer can process far more road condition data than a human being. I too drive/drove in rough conditions (used to live far north in Canada). Based on my experience I'd bet the a well designed self driving car would do much better than most drivers.

      Visibility (possibly limited), steering, 2 pedals, g-force are the only elements most drivers use to drive their vehicle. For most of us this feedback is often responded to late resulting in slight over compensation.

      The computer has unlimited visibility and 4 wheel traction control not limited by slip diffs and other slow response technologies. Instead all 4 wheels are controlled independent (I'm assuming these cars will all be electric by then). The computer is much quicker at responding to change in road conditions and is able to adapt much quicker.

  3. Drunk Driving by tom229 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    If I can pile into one drunk and it will drive me home, sign me up. My hunch is that the our current nanny-state way of thinking will never allow this. We will be required to be sober and attentive even if not driving. You'd probably get a ticket for merely reading a book or sending a text message.

    --
    If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
    1. Re:Drunk Driving by Jeremi · · Score: 2

      We will be required to be sober and attentive even if not driving.

      Also, please do not vomit on the upholstery.

      --


      I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
  4. Bars thrive by gurps_npc · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Bars would thrive.

    Police in small towns would lose a ton of money - much fewer speeding and traffic tickets.

    Similarly, the elderly would participate more in life - go out, party, and socialize a lot more.

    Movies ( and a bit of books) will increase - think of all the stuff kids do while you drive them around.

    But all of this will take 10-20 years, after the first sale, not immediately

    --
    excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
    1. Re:Bars thrive by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Similarly, the elderly would participate more in life - go out, party, and socialize a lot more.

      Not sure where you're coming from on this; how? Do you think the automated cars are going to be free/cheaper than existing taxi cabs and public transit? Or are you basing this claim on some rationale I have yet to consider?

      Just as an example, my parents are getting into their 80's now. They can no longer handle long drives to visit family, and are increasingly worried by flying.

      Autonomous car means "take me to CrimsonAvenger's house", go to sleep/read/whatever instead of watching traffic for ten+ hours.

      As to public transportation, not all of our parents live in cities. Some, like mine, live out in the boonies (about 40 miles from the nearest city, in their case).

      From my own POV, it means a few more hours per week doing what I want instead of "peering through a dirty pane of silica glass" watching out for lunatics who are doing the same.

      And the whole "you can stay out a little later, since you don't have to be 100% awake to drive home from the party/whatever" is appealing. Or get off on trips a little earlier, because you don't need your coffee to kick in before you can drive safely....

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    2. Re:Bars thrive by Jason+Levine · · Score: 2

      Movies ( and a bit of books) will increase - think of all the stuff kids do while you drive them around.

      I want to see a self-driving car with swiveling seats (so Mom and Dad in the front seat can face the kids in the back seat) and some kind of table so families can play board games on long car trips. Who's up for a Settlers Of Catan road trip?

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
  5. One industry loses, another industry gains by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    In this case, the legal industry will welcome the plethora of deep-pocketed targets available to be sued when an accident occurs with a self-driving vehicle.

  6. 15% on my by Kexel · · Score: 2

    It doesn't matter, I just saved 15% on my car insurance . ..

  7. Easy to imagine... by vikingpower · · Score: 2

    ...what is going to imagine: some insurance company is the first to come up with cheaper insurance for self-driving cars. The others follow. Murderous competition follows, until prices settle at a new, much lower level. Plus: we lose a couple of insurance companies as road-kill. Minus: the survivors may form a cartel.

    --
    Religous speak to God. Insane are spoken to by God. When all shut up, one can finally hear Shostakovich in peace
  8. Private Ownership? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    My bet... insurance companies will make it nearly impossible to own a human driving car. Since humans create accidents and they do not wish to pay out, liability coverage for a human driven car will increase greatly while robotic cars will drop. Eventually it will be nearly impossible to own a human driven car because of the costs.

  9. Or, alternately ... by gstoddart · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The alternate vision of the future is that, as usual, futurists are all hot and horny about how their technology will revolutionize the world, but it will continue to be far too expensive for society to change over and it will never happen on the claimed scale.

    So, like when I see things about how we'll have smart cities in which the roads are interconnected and technology will be everywhere .. I'm forced to conclude we're not going to tear down the world and start over to build this shiny stuff the futurists keep telling us is inevitable.

    At the end of the day, these are products someone wants to sell us. And if the world doesn't feel like it has billions or trillions of dollars to rebuild everything for your shiny new technology, then either it will never happen, or it will be rolled out in a few limited places for the wealthy.

    Take the average age of a car in North America .. hell, take the average age of a car in the world.

    Now, ask yourself who is going to replace all of the cars on the planet with your super awesome technology?

    From there you can pretty much realize that this stuff will never 100% replace what we have, will only ever benefit a very small amount of people, and likely won't be able to coexist with what we have now. In which case it sounds good on paper, but will never come to fruition.

    Technology is cool, and it does move forward. But the economics of technology often means it will never be as practical or achievable as claimed by its proponents.

    The world isn't going to rush out and buy self-driving cars just because the people who want to sell self-driving cars tell us how awesome they'll be. It just doesn't work that way.

    As usual, I'll believe it when I see it.

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    1. Re:Or, alternately ... by timholman · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The world isn't going to rush out and buy self-driving cars just because the people who want to sell self-driving cars tell us how awesome they'll be. It just doesn't work that way.

      Thirty years ago, you could just as easily have written the following:

      "The world isn't going to rush out and buy cellular phones just because the people who want to sell cellular phones tell us how awesome they'll be. It just doesn't work that way."

      Back then, Ma Bell ran the U.S. telecom industry. Nearly every home had a landline, with regulated rates. Public phones were everywhere. What possible motivation could people have to buy a $400 smartphone every two years, and pay $50 or $100 a month in connection fees on top of that? Yet here we are today.

      Self-driving cars aren't going to overturn transportation because they're "awesome", but because they'll be so damned useful to so many people, not the least of which will be the large segment of the population that wants the convenience of personal transportation, but cannot drive.

      Add to that the estimated 250 billion USD cost each year in the U.S. alone due to auto accidents, along with 35,000 deaths and millions of injuries (some permanently disabling), and there is in fact an enormous financial (and humanitarian) incentive to get self-driving cars on the road ASAP.

      Twenty years from now we'll be looking back and wondering how we ever managed without autonomous transportation, just as we now wonder how we managed before the cell / smartphone era. People can kick and scream about the future all they want, but it's coming nonetheless.

  10. Cities Gain, not many will lose by MyNameIsJohn · · Score: 2

    The main gain with automated cars, even with a gradual adoption rate of say 10 years, are cities with traffic. Productive time will shoot up when people can work while being driven to work, traffic will be lessened, optimal driving habits can lower fuel usage. The areas where we will spend less money would be fuel, possibly insurance, and car maintenance.

    This saved money doesn't just disappear, it will go into other areas of the economy that might have a better impact. After all, if you spend $2000/yr on fuel for one car, cutting that in half due to ride sharing or 3/4 due to more efficient driving will allow you to spend it on a vacation, clothes, entertainment, industries that are seeing falling revenue due to less expendable money.

  11. Re:End mandatory insurance by PRMan · · Score: 2

    At some point if their costs go down there will be competition. If nothing else, some new auto insurance company will come along and offer lower rates for various levels of self-driving car.

    --
    Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
  12. How Much? by CanHasDIY · · Score: 2

    Right now I have about $50K invested in human-controlled automobiles. These automobiles, with proper maintenance, will last me another 10-20 years.

    The real question is, if you want to make auto-cars mandatory, how are you going to get the millions of Americans who are currently paying for non-auto-cars out of their loans? If non-auto-cars become unusable on public streets, how the hell am I supposed to get enough value out of the ones I already own, to be able to afford to replace them with 2 auto-cars?

    FYI, if your answer involves a government subsidy, then you're already admitting to failure.

    --
    An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
  13. Re:It will usher in the end of Google by GuB-42 · · Score: 2

    Once some accidents happen, their financial penalties will be off the charts.

    Unless they have good insurance ;)

  14. police number is flat out wrong by Wycliffe · · Score: 2

    The link to the previous slashdot article states that traffic fines collect 300k per officer.
    Strangely no one in the previous article mentioned that based on the numbers given that
    would make there only be 20k officers in the USA. In reality, according to google,
    there are 900k sworn officers which would make traffic fines only account for 7k per
    officer. Still a significant amount but nowhere near the 300k mentioned in the previous
    article.

  15. dream on by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2

    Nobody who is driving today will see ubiquitous self-driving passenger cars.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  16. Don't forget organ donation by Headrick · · Score: 2

    A lot of organ transplants come from those killed in car / motorcycle accidents. As deaths sharply decline with self-driving vehicles this will be a grim predicament.