Commodore PC Still Controls Heat and A/C At 19 Michigan Public Schools

jmulvey writes: Think your SCADA systems are outdated? Environmental monitoring at 19 Grand Rapids Public Schools are still controlled by a Commodore Amiga. Programmed by a High School student in the 1980s, the system has been running 24/7 for decades. A replacement has been budgeted by the school system, estimated cost: Between $1.5 and 2 million. How much is your old Commodore Amiga worth?

Comments

What is being missed... is the $2 million part...

[FlyHelicopters]

So less than 2 dozen schools need to spend upwards of $2 million dollars to... control the HVAC?

Really?

That is the bigger issue, IMHO...

Re:What is being missed... is the $2 million part.

[Dr_Barnowl]

Yeah. You could probably replace the thing with a raspberry pi .... at each location ... with a custom controller card.. and another one to control them all... for about $5,000

$2M ? Someone's pork barrel overfloweth.

Re:What is being missed... is the $2 million part.

[Firethorn]

Environmental control and monitoring becomes complicated when you're considering large buildings. At that size you need a system that controls how much your heat plant or cooling system is producing, as well as controlling fans and baffles to ensure that the cooking classroom, with a dozen ovens operating(or 30 computers) on the 3rd floor of the sunny side of the building stays comfortably cool while the the traditional English room on the shaded side of the first floor doesn't actually freeze.

The reason it's $2M is the amount of programming and equipment replacement necessary, standard government waste, and the fact that they're no longer willing to let students/staff do it.

Re:Commodore Amiga or Commodore PC?

[Anonymous Coward]

It IS a PC, as in the generic sense of "personal computer". A Mac is a "PC" too. . .

Hire That Programmer Immediately!

[ewhac]

Please to remember: Amiga had pre-emptive multitasking, but no memory protection and no resource tracking. Diving through bad pointers would take out the entire system; and not meticulously free()ing every malloc() would lead to unrecoverable memory leaks which would... take out the entire system.

So anyone who can write a program for that platform that is still running problem-free after 30 years deserves to be making stacks of cash in the embedded/IoT space.

Also, shameless plug: http://amiga30.com/

Re:What is being missed... is the $2 million part.

[Penguinisto]

I'm not 100% sure it's governmental pork... commercial HVAC control systems can get hella expensive in a hurry, depending on what you're putting in. I suspect it's going to be more than just dropping in a new PC/server/whatever... a buttload of updated sensors and control equipment will likely have to go in along with it (esp. given the age).

Price it sometime, then scale that cost up for 19 large buildings. $2m comes to roughly $105k per school; as far as buildings of that size go, that ain't half bad.

Re:What is being missed... is the $2 million part.

[swv3752]

And what do you do if a part dies? Where are you going to get parts for something that has not been manufactured for 20+ years?

Obviously it needs to be replaced just so you can have something that can be repaired. The $2mil probably includes upgrading a large part of the HVAC system. If you have a 20+ year old computer controlling the HVAC, then you probably have a 20+ old HVAC.

Re:Emulator

[The Grim Reefer]

If they are only having problems with the hardware, why not just put an Amiga emulator on a new computer?

It doesn't sound like they are really have any real difficulty with the computer.

FTFA:"Parts for the computer are difficult to find, Hopkins said. It is on its second mouse and third monitor."

Also FTFA:"Because they share the same frequency as our maintenance communications radios and operations maintenance radios - yes, they do interfere"

I'm guessing that they could find radios that are on a different frequency for less than 1.5 to 2 million dollars.

Apparently the student who originally programed it is still in the area and they call him when they have any issues. I hope they at least offer him the Amiga for sentimental reasons when it goes offline. I don't think there are many high-school projects, particularly on this scope, that have worked for so long. And will require over a million dollars to replace. The tax payers of Grand Rapids should thank him.

Re:Explanation from the Original Programmer

[Cramer]

TL;DR... the HVAC systems are ancient.

The $2mil is replacing all that ancient crap, not just what the amiga has been maintaining for decades. I don't want to think what's controlling this place. (it's 30 years old, and the plenum confirms that!)

Re:What is being missed... is the $2 million part.

[camperdave]

Which begs the question - if it still works, why replace it?

It raises the question. Begging the question means something completely different.

No. Begging the question DOES mean raising the question.

The term "begging the question" originated in the 16th century as a mistranslation of Latin petitio principii ("assuming the initial point").[2] In modern vernacular usage, "to beg the question" sometimes also means "to raise the question"

Here's the thing: words and phrases can mean different things depending on the context. "Begs the question", when followed by a question means raises the question. "Begs the question" when talking about an argument means the obscure and antiquated English mis-translation of the older Latin mis-translation of the Greek phrase.

I suggest that you give it a rest. You're fighting the same losing battle that was fought over "gay" and "hacker". You won't change the public's mind, so the best outcome you'll ever get is looking like a pompous blow-hard. So, if that's what you're after, then have at it. Otherwise, learn to shut your trap and roll with it.