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Russian Troops Traced To Ukrainian Battlefields Through Social Media

Posted by Soulskill on from the caught-red-tweeted dept.

New submitter wienerschnizzel writes: Vice News has released a report on how they were able to trace a member of the regular Russian army from his base near the Ukrainian border toward the battlefields in the contested territory in eastern Ukraine, then back to his home in Siberia using the pictures he uploaded on his social media profile.

The methodology used is based on a report by the Atlantic Council think tank released earlier this year, which asserts that information on the movement and operations of the regular Russian troops can be easily gathered from publicly available sources (such as the social media). The Russian government still denies any involvement of Russian troops in the fights in Ukraine.

29 of 180 comments (clear)

  1. Wait a friggin minute... by Penguinisto · · Score: 4, Informative

    Okay, opinions and feelings inside, the veteran in me demands to know: "WTF, have you idiots never heard of COMSEC/OPSEC?"

    --
    Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    1. Re:Wait a friggin minute... by idontgno · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I'm a veteran too. I'm coming to the conclusion that OPSEC is dead, because social media guarantees the loosest lips in history.

      The only way to "fix" this is either submitting social media participation of military personnel to military censorship, or a strongly enforced ban on military member participation in social media.

      Which, I suspect, wouldn't work.

      --
      Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
    2. Re:Wait a friggin minute... by TWX · · Score: 4, Interesting

      US forces have had problems with this too, and not just the Geraldo Rivera incident. If I remember right there was a soldier or airman that took a selfie with some cool helicopters or something that had landed at his Iraqi base, and insurgents started shelling when they realized what was there. Admittedly these aircraft were out in the open exposed so it's still possible that they'd have been seen and targeted anyway, but the particular method through which their presence was initially identified was the photo.

      Mind you, I don't think that the US has very many instances of this happening, but it's not without precedent. I'd argue it's just another form of, "loose lips sink ships."

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    3. Re:Wait a friggin minute... by almitydave · · Score: 5, Funny

      Loose tweets sink fleets?

      --
      my, your, his/her/its, our, your, their
      I'm, you're, he's/she's/it's, we're, you're, they're
    4. Re:Wait a friggin minute... by oneiron · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Why should they lose convenience from and waste time/money on OPSEC/COMSEC when there are no broadly imposed consequences as long as they simply lie about it?

    5. Re:Wait a friggin minute... by TWX · · Score: 2

      Couldn't banning personal electronics capable of live network communication help and picture taking help? Seems like it would make sense for the military to proactively come up with ways to allow its members to still have the connection to home through social media, but in ways that make it less unsafe for units. Hell, set up a 'selfie stand' or some designated area for soldiers to have their pictures taken that won't compromise operational security, and use cameras that don't take location data, so that pictures are safe and can't be used for targeting coordinates...

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    6. Re:Wait a friggin minute... by gstoddart · · Score: 4, Informative

      Honestly though ...

      It's not your problem to deal with Russia's opsec. And if you're going to have a bunch of conscripts doing mandatory service ... well, don't expect them to give a damn.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    7. Re:Wait a friggin minute... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      See also: ISIS man posts selfie (or some other vapidity) to Twitter. Guy at US CentCom sees it, within 20 hours they match the background to where it was taken from, verify it, and drop a bomb on an ISIS command center.

      There's always going to be SOME idiot who just can't resist posting a selfie of him in his T-72 cupola with something that's verifiably Ukraine in the background. Who remembers Ric Romero's brilliant "Draw a plot of where we're coming from in the sand on international TV" incident from 2003? Not that it mattered since we were converging on Baghdad from literally every direction - but suppose Ric's dad had been embedded with the 101 and radioed out "Now Wolf, here we are at Saint Marie-du-mont..." in the clear.

      This is basically a human version of why the IoT terrifies me. Now when every stupid device that has no reason to contain so much as a transistor contains a processor, a writeable memory, and a wifi stack, there's always going to be SOME dee-dee-dee device that compromises the network and you'll (a) never figure out which one until it happens and (b) haha, the manufacturer wrote the 'blow jtag fuses' bits so good luck applying a patch

    8. Re:Wait a friggin minute... by TWX · · Score: 2

      Soldiers are supposed to be trained to follow orders and that there are consequences for not following those orders. Sure, some will disobey orders, but if there are penalties for being caught or for the ramifications of unauthorized use then it would probably work better than in prisons.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    9. Re:Wait a friggin minute... by TheCarp · · Score: 2

      Maybe it should be dead. Honestly, without this how would we, the people, ever know the truth?

      The truth has been denied to the public for far too long. Its not like using lies to manufacture the public image of your war in one way or another, either to deny you were causing it, or when it really started, or what the real reasons are.... it wasn't even remotely new when the Gulf of Tonkin happened.

      The lack of ability for large forces to maintain exactly this kind of secrecy is probably the best thing to ever happen in history.

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    10. Re:Wait a friggin minute... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Interesting

      This is not an entirely new problem. During the Falklands war, the BBC reported that several British ships had been hit by bombs, but luckily casualties were minimal because the fuses on the bombs were defective and they didn't explode. The next day, Argentina swapped out the bad fuses, and had much better results.

    11. Re:Wait a friggin minute... by gstoddart · · Score: 2

      Bah ... loose tweets sheep bleats. ;-)

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    12. Re:Wait a friggin minute... by idontgno · · Score: 2

      You don't happen to work for the Public Affairs office at Patrick AFB, do you?

      --
      Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
    13. Re:Wait a friggin minute... by painandgreed · · Score: 2

      Okay, opinions and feelings inside, the veteran in me demands to know: "WTF, have you idiots never heard of COMSEC/OPSEC?"

      This is all part of Russian PSYOPS. You can practically hear Putin saying "Ya, we have soldiers there. So, whatcha gonna do about it? You don't have the balls to do what it takes and counter us Russians."

  2. So? by dunkelfalke · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Putin will still keep insisting that the soldiers are on their vacation or have been honourably discharged shortly before.

    It is seriously not news, not since the photos of a disabled T72B3 have been published. Russia actively helps separatists in the region and will continue doing so in the foreseeable future.

    --
    "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    1. Re:So? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Putin will still keep insisting that the soldiers are on their vacation or have been honourably discharged shortly before.

      It is seriously not news, not since the photos of a disabled T72B3 have been published. Russia actively helps separatists in the region and will continue doing so in the foreseeable future.

      I'd also like to point out the Americal military "advisors" helping the Ukrainian army. This conflict has long passed the threshold of regional proxy war.

    2. Re:So? by SuricouRaven · · Score: 2

      Putin has invented a new military strategy: Implausible denyability.

    3. Re:So? by gtall · · Score: 2

      The American involvement might have something to do with the agreement NATO and the Russian signed to preserve Ukraine were they to give up the nukes they had after the Soviet Union collapsed. They dutifully gave up the nukes, Russian reneged, the U.S. attempted (weakly) to honor the agreement. They rest of NATO is AWOL, as they so frequently have been.

    4. Re:So? by dunkelfalke · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There was no signed agreement, just a memorandum, which is neither binding nor really applicable in this case (it is about Ukraine being attacked with nuclear weapons).

      The actual treaty that has been broken by the presence of Russian troops there is the Belavezha accord, which opens another can of worms entirely, but, frankly, American involvement in that matter is, indeed, very much questionable, as would be the involvement of the rest of NATO.

      And as for your "as they so frequently have been" - so far a NATO country hasn't ever been under attack (except for that short skirmish between Turkey and Greece, which, incidentally, are both NATO countries). There was zero reason for NATO being involved in anything whatsoever but unfortunately Americans don't know the difference between defense and offense.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    5. Re:So? by halivar · · Score: 2, Informative

      See, you know how we can tell you're a Russian hack? A REAL Slashdotter would have said "USian" out of disdain. You Russian astroturfers are pathetic. Get a real job.

    6. Re:So? by Coolhand2120 · · Score: 2
      I stand correct, Ukraine isn't part of NATO. That doesn't change anything else. Russia claims over and over again that they are not involved. That is clearly a lie. And I think that is the real issue. Russia is lying about its involvement. In each of the example you gave, did any of the combatants lie about their involvement? No, Russia lies about its involvement because it would be against international law to do what they are doing.

      I'm pretty sure about the AH-64s. They can fly NOE and engage with the AH-64D's radar without exposing themselves. From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      The AH-64D Apache Longbow, is equipped with a glass cockpit and advanced sensors, the most noticeable of which being the AN/APG-78 Longbow millimeter-wave fire-control radar (FCR) target acquisition system and the Radar Frequency Interferometer (RFI), housed in a dome located above the main rotor.[249][250] The radome's raised position enables targets detection while the helicopter is behind obstacles (e.g. terrain, trees or buildings). The AN/APG-78 is capable of simultaneously tracking up to 128 targets and engaging up to 16 at once, an attack can be initiated within 30 seconds.[251][252] A radio modem integrated with the sensor suite allows data to be shared with ground units and other Apaches; allowing them to fire on targets detected by a single helicopter.

      They were literally made to fight Russian SAMs and tanks in the eastern european theater. They have (almost) never been used in that role. Read up on the AH-64D's capabilities. Do the Russians have anything that can combat that? I'm not aware of anything. Shoulder launched SA-7 maybe, but not at night and not against helis flying NOE - and that's the only way AH-64s operate prior to achieving air superiority. And I didn't even bring up the F15, F16, F18 or F22.

      And what makes you think the USA can't achieve air superiority against the Russians? Is that a joke or something? The US could send just a fraction of the 20 aircraft carriers it has into the black sea and they would have an order of magnitude more resources than the Russians.

      The Russians? They have 1 aircraft carrier.

      And let's not forget about the stealth aircraft. It would be a shame to lose all of your C&C on day one. But that's pretty much how it goes down in a war with the US. And what does Russia have to counter that? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. On day one, all C&C would be gone, any fighting that continued would be commanded by the highest ranking officer on the ground, not from central command. Add air superiority and it effectively makes all Russian armor irrelevant. After a week or two of fighting (working) Russian armor would be a rare sight. The US doesn't even need to send aircraft to attack the armor, they could destroy it with cruise missiles fired from submarines or missile frigates if they wished. And the Russians can do nothing about it.

      Oh they could try and field their aging Navy against the US, but with 20 aircraft carriers and dozens of nuclear attack submarines the Russian navy is heavily outmatched.

      And don't forget the US army has been fighting wars for a long time. That means we have a lot of skilled veterans - something that the Russians are lacking. So US has more and better skilled men and equipment that was purpose built to destroy the Russian army.

      Maybe you can explain how the Russians could stand a chance, because I'm not seeing it.

      Read Red Storm Rising. It's about a theoretical engagement of NATO and Warsaw pact countries in the 1980's. And Russia has only declined in military power since then.

      Today, Russia would get decimated by the US and might lead to nuclear war, and that more than anything else is why the two countries don't engage in fighting directly.

    7. Re:So? by dunkelfalke · · Score: 2

      I just knew you are from the 101st chairborne division.
      1) Russians have a lot of things that can kill an Apache. Tunguska for example. And fixed wing aircraft.
      2) Aircraft carriers can be destroyed by supersonic anti ship missiles - something Russians can and do build very well, making the carriers just huge targets. Even the Brits during the cold war were aware of this kind of an asymmetrical answer.
      3) USA does not use stealth aircraft before achieving air superiority anymore because they are too afraid to lose one of the very expensive birds because they aren't that stealthy - even Serbians have managed to shoot down an F-117 with a bloody Mig-21 - and you can only optimise the stealth capabilities against certain radar frequencies. L and S band radars can see stealth aircraft well enough and as for the ability of USA to fight this kind of war - American army was already overstretched fighting under-equipped savages in two countries, staying in Afghanistan for a decade and still losing that war.

      But I can see you have read too much Tom Clancy for your own good.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
  3. Re:Vacation by Rob+Riggs · · Score: 2

    He was just going for a vacation.

    I hear the battlefields of Ukraine are beautiful this time of year.

    --
    the growth in cynicism and rebellion has not been without cause
  4. Absence of OPSEC is compensated by disinformation by Trachman · · Score: 4, Informative

    Absence of OPSEC is counter-weighted with several hundred paid internet workers who do nothing else but work day and night to sway internet opinion.

    As such, if there will be a report that there were dozens of Russians captured and hundreds of Russians killed, for each and every of the report there will be dozens of comment explaining that such findings are incorrect and fake. And that graves of the Russians are fake. And that Ukrainians are fascists and Nazis, from the failed state. Just read some of the comments for this article.

    Regular reader of any news will be flooded with contradicting information and will choose to believe what he wanted to believe.

  5. Re:Volunteers? by halivar · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Do Russian soldiers often take their tanks on vacation with them? How stupid do you have to be to believe this?

  6. Re:Absence of OPSEC is compensated by disinformati by Kjella · · Score: 2

    You won't find many such comments here. Not that they don't exist - it's just that the Russian propaganda workers are focusing primarily on Russian-language media.

    Here in Norway I can assure you we have plenty Putin shills commenting on news stories, I assume it's the same for most NATO countries. Putin got Russia in his back pocket, it's the public opinion in the west and all the sanctions they're looking to sway.

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  7. Re:Absence of OPSEC is compensated by disinformati by dunkelfalke · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Funny thing is, while you are completely right with what you write, these comments have indeed some truth in them.

    There have been more than enough fake reports from Ukrainian government. For fuck's sake, they've once even claimed that they were attacked by Russian tactical nukes, which lead to facepalms even in their own parliament. I've been to Ukraine two months ago, their mass media really is crazy hysterical and lying. I thought that German mass media here is bad, but it is like BBC compared to Fox News.

    And there are indeed neo-Nazis in Ukrainian national guard. I've seen them, too. Scary stuff. They are not a majority anymore, not since the draft has begun. But the volunteers in the beginning of the conflict were mostly the militant arm of Maidan - neo-Nazis.

    It is also true that Ukraine is a failed state. Has been a failed state for 20 years.

    Even so, it is not an excuse to send troops there to kill people and destabilise the situation even further.

    --
    "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
  8. Re:Volunteers? by caseih · · Score: 2

    That's really good. Just enough "you could be right" sentiment to make us believe you're expressing a real, valid, independant opinion, and not a paid post from the kremlin's trolling factories. Very well played indeed.

  9. Social media issues by phorm · · Score: 2

    Russia isn't the only one having issues with social media

    ISIS had a little bit of kaboom come their way after an errant social-media posting as well.

    Wonder if dude got a selfie of that?