Microsoft Attempts To Clarify the Windows 10 For Everyone Rumor

Ammalgam writes: Over the weekend, Microsoft caused a web explosion by seeming to imply that they were going to relax their licensing rules and offer Windows 10 for free to everyone. This caused an uproar of controversy online that Microsoft had to address. The company issued a statement in an attempt to clarify the Windows 10 licensing situation. The language is still a little confusing so on Windows10update.com, Onuora Amobi tries to simplify the language and sort out the distinction between users on the Windows Insider Program and non Windows Insiders.

Comments

Re: There are ten types of people

[Anonymous Coward]

You do know that that is exactly the wrong way to phrase the joke right? And that therefore you DON'T know the difference??

Basically

[Anonymous Coward]

If you have Windows 7 or 8/8.1 Genuine, you'll get an upgrade to retail Windows 10. If you have the Windows 10 Insider program, you'll get an upgrade to Windows 10 that gets early update releases (i.e. you'll be a public beta tester for future updates).

Re:Basically

[AmiMoJo]

What still isn't clear is how much of the spying built in to the Insider Preview will remain. You can turn some of it off, but some of it like the app install reporting and file open reporting you can't disable. After launch day will those features remain? If so, suddenly this "free" copy of Windows is a lot less attractive.

Re:Basically

[wbo]

The whole point of the Insider Preview is to have people test alpha/beta releases that are under active development. Having extensive telemetry and reporting makes perfect sense in that context and Microsoft has been very clear from the beginning that they were collecting such data.

After Windows 10 is released, the delopment of Windows 10 will continue and new development builds will be available to insider members. The insider program doesn't stop once Windows 10 is released.

If you don't like the data collection, don't run the Insider releases and instead upgrade to the retail release from a Windows 7 or Windows 8 install after the Windows 10 release date.

Re:Basically

[Anonymous Coward]

Except the upgrade from W7 SP1 doesn't work. There's no option to upgrade even with KB3035583 installed and proper activation from bought deliverables.

Install Ubuntu instead. Everything including Netflix and Steam just works, although had to install 32-bit libstdc++ for making printer work, nothing CLI-wise was otherwise needed. I just need it for running on VM, but will explore more options if getting my hand forced.

Viewed from the insider program W10 is a joke anyways. The program itself is pretty smart, but the results: just godawful design and usability..

Re:Basically

[bondsbw]

Except the upgrade from W7 SP1 doesn't work. There's no option to upgrade even with KB3035583 installed and proper activation from bought deliverables.

You can't upgrade because it's not available. It doesn't show yet because either the update could not determine if your machine is compatible, you're running a pirated version of Windows, or you've turned off or blocked Windows Update. https://www.microsoft.com/en-u...

Re:Basically

[stoned_ritual]

Yeah, don't stay with the software environment that you're used to, just install ubuntu, and spend the rest of your waking life lurking forums and downloading drivers that may or may not work. And get ready to be treated like a completely retarded person by the "community" for not knowing how to execute basic command line tasks.

Re:Basically

[Penguinisto]

Now that's funny, because my non-tech missus has/uses a laptop running Linux Mint (Rebecca build), she's been using it quite extensively of late, and I haven't even touched the thing since I installed the OS.

But you know, to each their own...

Re:Basically

[Anonymous Coward]

"But you know, to each their own..."

That is the exact point he was making. I have a few laptops that Wifi refuses to hardware unlock, making those system unusable for Linux.

Blame whomever you want, but those same systems run Win8 just fine.

Re:Basically

[Anonymous Coward]

The retarded shit some people say...

Re:Basically

[r-diddly]

See, you summed it up pretty clearly in two sentences. Why all the lengthy "attempts to clarify?" It's almost like Microsoft is not the paragon of honesty. Or maybe they're just panicky that nobody cares anymore. Either way (both) they remind me of myself 10 years ago making up an overwrought excuse for why I couldn't come to work.

They speak of "copies"

[Anonymous Coward]

Do I get a non-revocable licence with installation mediums with the copy of Windows 10? Or do I only get until the crapware crashes it, and I'll have to pay for that licence or get used to the older version again?

Re:They speak of "copies"

[Gaygirlie]

If you upgrade from 7/8/8.1 the license is there to stay and you can in the future perform a full clean installation. It is tied to the hardware in some way, I dunno how, so you probably can't move the license to another PC, but aside from that it is a non-revocable license.

Re:They speak of "copies"

[Anonymous Coward]

If you upgrade from 7/8/8.1 the license is there to stay

...with the hardware that you upgraded on. The Windows 10 license you get by upgrading a Windows 7 or 8 system is tied to the hardware: Your old transferable license is consumed into the Windows 10 license which only works on the device it was first installed on within one year of the Windows 10 release. You can't go back and you can't activate your old license on newer hardware and then upgrade to Windows 10 (both because the old license is gone and because the upgrade window is limited.)

The "Windows Insider" license on the other hand makes you a permanent beta tester for Microsoft. Do read the terms and conditions to know what Microsoft is helping themselves to, but sit down first.

Re:They speak of "copies"

[Anonymous Coward]

Your old transferable license is consumed into the Windows 10 license

This assumes that you purchased your original Windows 7/8/8.1 license as a Full-Packaged Product (FPP) separately from the PC it is running on. If you purchased an OEM licensed copy of Windows 7/8/8.1 with the PC, it was always bound to the original hardware.

From http://download.microsoft.com/download/4/e/3/4e3eace0-4c6d-4123-9d0c-c80436181742/oslicqa.doc

6. What is the difference between OEM product and Full-Packaged Product (FPP)?

ANSWER. OEM products are intended to be preinstalled on hardware before the end user purchases the product. They are “shrink wrapped” and do not come in a box like the retail products do. Full-Packaged Product (FPP) is boxed with CD(s), manuals, and the EULA and is sold in retail stores in individual boxes. The End User License Agreements (commonly referred to as “EULAs”) for OEM and FPP products are slightly different. One main difference is that an OEM operating system license (such as the license for Windows) cannot be transferred from its original PC to another PC. However, the FPP version of Windows may be transferred to another PC as long as the EULA, manual and media (such as the backup CD) accompany the transfer to the other PC. Also, when a customer purchases an OEM product, the OEM license requires the OEM to provide support for the product.

9. Can I transfer my operating system license from an old PC to a new one?

ANSWER. Not unless it was purchased as a Full-Packaged Product from a retail store (i.e., Windows in a box). Current OEM licenses for all Microsoft operating system products are not transferable from one machine to another. The End User License Agreement (EULA) governs the terms for transfer of licenses. Some EULAs for copies of certain older OEM operating system products (i.e., MS-DOS®, Windows® 3.1, and Windows for Workgroups 3.1) distributed in 1995 or earlier may permit transfer of the OEM operating system software license under limited circumstances. (See Software Product Transfer section of your End User License Agreement.)

10. If I “retire” a PC with an OEM license on it, can I use that software on a new PC?

ANSWER. No. To put it simply, OEM product is “married” to the original PC on which it was installed. Current OEM licenses are not transferable from one machine to another. The software cannot be moved from PC to PC, even if the original PC it was installed on is no longer in use. This is true for all OEM software – operating systems and applications.

Re:They speak of "copies"

[santiagoanders]

My old license is "consumed"? I can't activate on newer hardware? Fuck that. At least when Microshit made my Windows 8 installation upgrade to 8.1, the my license terms for my original software didn't disappear. My system builder Windows 8 can be moved to any computer I choose as long as I nuke the old copy.

Re:They speak of "copies"

[santiagoanders]

I should have said Windows 8 "personal use" license. It is unique among Windows licenses. Microshit nuked the "personal use" for Windows 8.1 system builder copies.

Re:They speak of "copies"

[Anonymous Coward]

In many jurisdictions, any license that you bought without signing a direct contract with Microsoft is a transferable license (and EULAs are unenforceable), not just the full retail package licenses. The system builder packages in particular are not bound to the hardware.

Re:There are ten types of people

[Anonymous Coward]

Besides, better yet:

There are two kinds of people:
1. The ones that can extrapolate

The Gist

[Anonymous Coward]

As long as you keep betatesting for Microsoft, you get to keep using Windows 10. For once, read the terms and conditions. If you still want it, it's free as in free labor for Microsoft. Like you were going to pay for Win10...

Re: The Gist

[Anonymous Coward]

Which sucks. There's nothing I hated more than beta testing and having to pay full price for the final release.

Re:windows 10 is NOT free

[Demonoid-Penguin]

If you are NOT already running a licensed full windows it aint free. CAN WE PLEASE LOSE THE FUCKING SHARE BUTTONS, there offensive AND waste screen space. ( i am NOT in any social crap )

Stop shouting. I see no share buttons, or ads, or signatures - and you don't hear me complaining. What is your problem? (rhetorical question - space wouldn't allow you to list them all).

I DON'T want windows 10

[johanw]

I want to stick with 7. But MS seems intent to forcing 10 uppon us with windows update. First I had to remove and block KB3035583, yesterday I see this: KB3040272 in the list of updates which, according to MS, does this: "This update helps Microsoft make improvements to the current operating system in order to ease the upgrade experience to the latest version of Windows."

Blocked that as well, you never know what they spam you with when they think almost everyone installed it. I don't even trust them not to call something like that a "security update" at some point.

Re:I DON'T want windows 10

[Nyder]

I want to stick with 7. But MS seems intent to forcing 10 uppon us with windows update. First I had to remove and block KB3035583, yesterday I see this: KB3040272 in the list of updates which, according to MS, does this: "This update helps Microsoft make improvements to the current operating system in order to ease the upgrade experience to the latest version of Windows."

Blocked that as well, you never know what they spam you with when they think almost everyone installed it. I don't even trust them not to call something like that a "security update" at some point.

This is why I usually wait a month or two before applying windows updates, I get to hear the horror stories of problems people might be having and know what to avoid.

Re:I DON'T want windows 10

[Anonymous Coward]

Stick with 7 then, just don't expect it to be maintained forever. We are in 2015, win 7 was released in 2009. It's already in minor maintenance mode for MS. For someone on /. you should grasp the basics of a software business that by law has to churn products and maximise income.

Re:I DON'T want windows 10

[gigaherz]

I decided to install the Insider Preview on my laptop, as a means to evaluate Windows 10 before the final version touches my desktop, and so far I'm liking it. It does have a couple of annoyances, but overall it's good, and the in-place upgrade was flawless for me.

That said, to the point: I have a handful of updates in my WU that I decided not to install just yet. All of them popped up around the same time, and all of them are related to the upgrade process between Windows 7 and Windows 10. Once I decide to upgrade to Windows 10, I will unblock KB3035583 and friends, and let Microsoft upgrade to the new OS in-place.

Re:I DON'T want windows 10

[Sneeka2]

Stances like yours really make me wonder why you stick with Windows then. No, I'm not trying to wave any particular other persuasion in your face here. But being paranoid about my OS and the motivations of the company behind it is simply the last thing I'd want to spend my time with. I'd either choose an OS which I don't have to wrestle with about upgrades, or one which I'm confident enough about that I don't mind the upgrades. Not having either option and still sticking with it seems extremely unproductive to me.

Re:I DON'T want windows 10

[Anonymous Coward]

Stances like yours really make me wonder why you stick with Windows then. No, I'm not trying to wave any particular other persuasion in your face here. But being paranoid about my OS and the motivations of the company behind it is simply the last thing I'd want to spend my time with. I'd either choose an OS which I don't have to wrestle with about upgrades, or one which I'm confident enough about that I don't mind the upgrades. Not having either option and still sticking with it seems extremely unproductive to me.

Statements like yours are so Pie-in-the-sky oblivious that they must be trolling. Everything is a tradeoff. They tolerate those things in order to be able to run the software they want/need. duh.

Re:I DON'T want windows 10

[Somebody Is Using My]

I decided to install the Insider Preview on my laptop, as a means to evaluate Windows 10 before the final version touches my desktop, and so far I'm liking it.
I, on the other hand, did the same and detest it.

The "returned Start Menu" is a joke, and seems more an insult to everyone who wanted a Start Menu than an honest attempt to meet their needs. You can't rearrange the items on the menu; it's all alphabetical. The text in "All Apps" section is huge and absurdly widely-spaced, making even a short list of apps go on forever. Even if you remove all the live tiles, the menu still takes up a huge amount of space. Its absolutely useless as a Start Menu. Sure, there are third-party alternatives like ClassicStart, but most people aren't going to be using those utilities and I'm going to have to support them.

Then there's the fact that you search your files without the query being sent up to the Microsoft mothership. Searching for sensitive material you wisely stored locally? Microsoft is going to know about it. There are settings in the group policy editor to disable this, but - at least in the most recent preview - they don't actually work. Home versions of the OS don't ship with GPEdit either.

Windows10 is still pretty pushy with getting you into its online ecosystem too, although I will admit it is toned down (ever so slightly) from Windows 8.1. It's slightly easier to notice that you can make a local account without using hotmail, for instance. But from its prominent app-store, to its OnDrive cloud storage, to its mail client that doesn't support POP3, Windows10 requires you to use Microsoft online services to make use of any of its newer features.

Metro, of course, continues to be an abomination, made all the worse by the fact it still remains only half-heartedly integrated into the system. Dig one or two menus deep into the control panel (sorry, its called "Settings" now) and you'll be facing an old-style WindowsXP interface. The shift is jarring and likely confusing to many newer users, and more experienced users will dislike how all the superficial settings have been shuffled about and renamed for no apparent reason. Unfortunately, no third-party app can fix this.

Then there are the niggling minor loss of features. I'm not talking the removal of significant apps - like Media Center - but just little features of the OS that used to be available in older versions of Windows that have been inexplicably removed in Windows10. The ability to uninstall most of the default apps (try removing the XBox app or OneNote; you can't) that come with Windows, for instance. Or control over whether or not to install updates, as another. Individually, these are annoyances but combined they are a headache.

The back-end of Windows 10 seems reliable enough; it has the fast pseudo-start (really, just booting from hibernation since Windows hasn't do a clean shutdown since Windows8) that people like, and seems reliable enough (for Windows). But it doesn't bring anything interesting to the table, still has all the stuff I dislike about Windows 8/8.1 and adds a bunch of unwanted restrictions on top of that. I honestly would recommend Windows 8 over Windows 10 at this point (although if you had the option, take 8.1 or - preferably - Windows 7 if you can). At least with those your computer is still yours to do with as you like, and not as Microsoft thinks you might want to use it.

Re:I DON'T want windows 10

[Anonymous Coward]

I installed the Insider Preview from scratch (wiped hard disk) on a spare laptop. It reproducibly kills the touchpad and the keyboard after a few minutes. The system keeps running and I can still send it to stand-by and wake it up with the power button, but without keyboard and touchpad input, it's useless. Couldn't even shut down the system without external input devices. That's the kind of quality control I expect from a Chinese eBay seller, but Microsoft?

Re:I DON'T want windows 10

[johanw]

Well, Linux has its own quirks - the "change the GUI for the sake of change itself" virus has not escaped them too. Neither has the forced cloud invasion (Ubuntu search). However, if this is the direction Windows is going to, I will switch to Linux as main OS.

Re:I DON'T want windows 10

[Totenglocke]

As a gamer, I absolutely want Windows 10 for DirectX12. I'm curious, other than the usual "I'm afraid of change", why do you not want Windows 10?

Re:I DON'T want windows 10

[bondsbw]

You can't rearrange the items on the menu; it's all alphabetical.

You can still pin items, in the tile area. They can be rearranged not only vertically (like in Windows 7) but also horizontally now.

The text in "All Apps" section is huge and absurdly widely-spaced, making even a short list of apps go on forever.

If you click on the headers (0-9, A, B, C, etc.) it will zoom out to show the full list of headers, and clicking on one can take you straight to that section.

Even if you remove all the live tiles, the menu still takes up a huge amount of space.

Incorrect. If you remove all live tiles, you can collapse the Start menu to a much smaller space than the Windows 7 Start menu. Or make it any size all the way up to full screen. Your choice.

Re:I DON'T want windows 10

[Lanforod]

I installed the Insider Preview from scratch (wiped hard disk) on a spare laptop. It reproducibly kills the touchpad and the keyboard after a few minutes. The system keeps running and I can still send it to stand-by and wake it up with the power button, but without keyboard and touchpad input, it's useless. Couldn't even shut down the system without external input devices. That's the kind of quality control I expect from a Chinese eBay seller, but Microsoft?

Driver issue is not Microsoft's fault.

Re:I DON'T want windows 10

[Anonymous Coward]

In that case me refusing to install Windows 10 is a driver issue and not my fault either. Note that I did not install anything that did not come on the official ISO or from Microsoft's servers.

Re:I DON'T want windows 10

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, Linux has its own quirks - the "change the GUI for the sake of change itself" virus has not escaped them too.

Funny you should say that, but I've been running Window Maker since 2001.

Re:I DON'T want windows 10

[Anonymous Coward]

But I do understand the want for stable software (stable as in non changing) that you can keep on using for years.

If you take care for your car you can drive over 30 years with it without any problems, even when technology has changed a lot over those 30 years.

When will the OS industry finally be advanced enough to just bring out an OS that doesn't need constant updates and upgrades, but just some maintenance to let it run for decades?

You would think that with visualization, the OS cycle would finally be over. You only need a hypervisor that runs on your hardware and you can just migrate all your OS's and applications to new hardware. But apparently we're still not that advanced yet... For me it's finally time for a few competitors to show up in the OS market that enable this kind of features for the consumer market. But we probably will have to wait until HTML+Javascript has replaced the desktop needs...

Re:I DON'T want windows 10

[Anonymous Coward]

I've used Windows 8 for a few days when I was outsourced to a customer. I wasn't allowed to work on my own computer and was given a laptop with Windows 8 to do the job. I was surprised by how awful the OS was. There is no self discovery. You can't just open your eyes and look for the features. I've always been able to find my way in previous Windows version, although I often had to search and look around. But with Windows 8 I couldn't even figure out how to close the full screen windows, how to open the settings, how to find program that you don't know the name of. Accidentally using cmd+c muscle memory and I was presented with a full screen window that didn't close. I always had to 'load' the desktop and go back to my ide again. My experience with the OS was so bad I actually had to laugh out loud... I simply could not believe that such a respectable software house would bring out such an awful user experience only to try to manipulate the mobile phone/tablet market... Yes, if I had a manual I could probably have learned to use the OS and maybe get used to the new user interface, maybe even love it... but an OS should in the first place not get in the way and a user should be able to self discover the features. Unclosable full screen Windows that remove your program from eyesight and focus is a way too big punishment for a simple user error.

I wonder if they manage to get Windows 10 better in this regard. An OS doesn't have to be 'easy', but it should be possible to find the features. Do not only allow features to be opened by hidden magic key combinations or mouse movements (the local IT guy showed me some 'features' on my last day), also present them in a visible and easy to discover way.

Re:I DON'T want windows 10

[omnichad]

2020 is a long time from now. I'm not concerned, but XP support just ended last year. Windows 7 has plenty of time left.

Re:I DON'T want windows 10

[Somebody Is Using My]

Even if you remove all the live tiles, the menu still takes up a huge amount of space.

Incorrect. If you remove all live tiles, you can collapse the Start menu to a much smaller space than the Windows 7 Start menu. Or make it any size all the way up to full screen. Your choice.

I am not seeing the behavior you described in the lastest preview version of Windows 10. Having removed all the Live tiles, I am still left with an overly large - and empty - Start menu. The behavior you describe - the Start Menu shrinking down in size as Live Tiles were removed - was a feature in earlier versions of the preview but this functionality was removed around March. It was possible to re-enable it for a while by editing a particular key in the Registry but even this was disabled in later versions of the preview. With the latest version (build 10130) removing the tiles leaves you with a huge, pointlessly huge Start menu.

Re:I DON'T want windows 10

[bondsbw]

I'm running 10130 on two machines and it works on both. It's not an automatic resizing. You just have to remove all your tiles, then it will allow you to manually resize it down. When tiles exist, it requires at least enough space for one tile group.

Re:I DON'T want windows 10

[Somebody Is Using My]

I stand corrected. The functionality there is exactly as described.

I will argue that this is in no way intuitive; I don't consider myself a novice to computers or Windows but I like to think I generally know my way around PCs. But manually changing the width of a menu is so rarely done that it didn't even occur to me that it was possible (actually, that's not completely true; I know I tested it on an earlier version of the preview and it didn't work then. I didn't bother - or remember - to try on build 10130). I doubt regular users would have any better luck.

Nonetheless, I still maintain the Start Menu is a big step backwards, with reduced functionality and is generally little better than a collapsible version of the "start page" from Windows8.

And that's just one of many issues I have with the OS. Windows 10 offers me nothing I want and a lot I don't want. I see absolutely no reason to upgrade from Windows 7, even if it is nominally "free".

On the plus side, at least the weather app that comes embedded in the OS doesn't show you advertisements.

Re:I DON'T want windows 10

[Anonymous Coward]

Bingo. The enterprise software that I work with is based on windows. Like it or not--99% of the rank and file workforce in business uses windows. I have to be intimately familiar with Windows because it's my job. While I do agree philosophically that I like Linux, I do not like it enough to spend a huge amount of my very limited free time learning its quirks just so I can use a better OS in what would end up being less free time.

Is Microsoft evil? Probably. Are they evil enough that I want to spend a significant chunk of my free time to avoid using them in my time off? Absolutely not. Because, as you pointed out, Linux and every other alternative OS will have its own irritating quirks.

Re:I DON'T want windows 10

[Anonymous Coward]

Why isn't it? They worked fine until M$ changed everything.

Re:I DON'T want windows 10

[bondsbw]

Windows 10 offers me nothing I want and a lot I don't want. I see absolutely no reason to upgrade from Windows 7, even if it is nominally "free".

That's up to you. But I'm surprised you find nothing good about Windows 10 when compared with 7. Better performance, virtual desktops, Cortana, notifications, improved Snap, quick settings, Edge, Store apps, improved interaction with the command prompt, streaming from Xbox One, DirectX 12, native video/game capture, and several other things I'm sure I missed... I'm not surprised you don't care for some of those, but I am surprised you don't want any of it.

Re:windows 10 is NOT free

[Anonymous Coward]

if you cant use AdBlock, that's your problem

Nothing is for free, we all know that

[jjhues7676]

I wonder how many ads will be tucked into places so they can have a stream of money to pay for development?

Free to Insiders

[ChunderDownunder]

A lose debian analogy, the difference being MS might revoke access to the Insider program without notice.

If you want Jessie (stable), you can upgrade free of charge from Wheezy (oldstable) or Squeeze (oldoldstable) but if you want to upgrade from Lenny or Etch or otherwise, you must buy a new computer with Jessie pre-installed or purchase retail Jessie DVD installation media.

On the other hand if you sell your soul to Linus, promising your firstborn child to RMS, you may access the Stretch (testing) and Sid (unstable) rolling releases free of charge but may not downgrade to Jessie without following the steps above.

If you are using Testing during the trunk freeze prior a new release, you may painlessly switch to Stable provided you had a valid installation of OldStable or OldOldStable.

windows translation of the above:

If you want Windows 10, you can upgrade free of charge from 8.x or 7 but if you want to upgrade from Vista or XP or otherwise, you must buy a new computer with Windows 10 pre-installed or purchase retail Windows 10 DVD installation media.

On the other hand if sign up to the Windows Insider program, promising your firstborn child to Microsoft, you may access the Slow or Fast rolling releases free of charge but may not downgrade to Windows 10 without following the steps above.

If you are using Windows Insider builds prior to the new release, you may painlessly switch to Windows 10 provided you had a valid installation of 8.x or 7.

Re:Free to Insiders

[Saint Gerbil]

Spot on except that you can also buy a key from within windows, so you necessarily need a new PC or reinstall.

Re: There are 10 types of people

[Anonymous Coward]

There are 10 types of people in this world. You are not one of them.

A question for vanilla installations

[Elusive_Cure]

If i got this straight, microsoft will push the OS upgrade through windows update, and after the installation will check for a valid 7/8/8.1 licence key and activate Win10 with that. So, if i need to do a vanilla installation of Win10, will i be able to download the iso and use my valid 7/8/8.1 licence key without any problems? Or is it a one way path where you need to do a vanilla of 7/8/8.1 and then do an OS upgrade through winupdate?

Re:A question for vanilla installations

[Gaygirlie]

I imagine that you can supply the license key even if you do a clean install, but I am only guessing. However, if you first upgrade to W10 through Windows Update you can *then* make W10 install media and do a clean install ever after, they have confirmed this. So, in a worst-case scenario you have to install 7/8/8.1 first, update through WUpdate, then wipe the machine and clean-install W10.

PLOT TWIST

[idbeholda]

Windows 10 is free, now you just have to pay for downloadable content.

Re:PLOT TWIST

[Anonymous Coward]

... and microtransactions :)

Re:PLOT TWIST

[Anonymous Coward]

They'll just start metering your CPU, memory and network usage. No problems creating a business plan out of a failed one when everyone is scrambling to bend over.

Re:PLOT TWIST

[Anonymous Coward]

One-time DLC prices (per machine):
Command Prompt: $5 (or $10 for Powershell).
Control Panel: $5.
Internet Explorer: $5 (or FREE for "extra ads" version).
Minesweeper: $5.
Notepad: $5.
Solitaire: $5.
Start Menu: $5.
Task Manager: $5.

Subscription DLC prices (per registered user):
Office: $30/year.
Windows Security: $30/year (includes MSRT, Windows Defender, and non-critical maintainance patches).

Too bad for them.

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a legit Win 7 license but I don't want to lose it by upgrading to Windows 10.
The only way I'm trying Win 10 is if my Win 7 key gives me a license to dual boot both 7 and 10 on the same computer, with no activation hassles.
Looks like that's not going to happen, so I'm staying with 7.

Re:windows 10 is NOT free

[Applehu Akbar]

And will people who just downloaded the beta, and are using it and filing bug reports, still get a free copy of the release evrsion?

Interesting fact

[Anonymous Coward]

Did you know that Quentin tarantino wanted to use windows 10 as torture instrument in the torture basement scene in pulp fiction? It was then graded too violent, and he had to switch to what we've seen instead.

Re:Interesting fact

[tehcyder]

Did you know that Quentin tarantino wanted to use windows 10 as torture instrument in the torture basement scene in pulp fiction? It was then graded too violent, and he had to switch to what we've seen instead.

As the film was made in 1994, I assume this is some recycled Win 3.1/Win95 joke from AOL of the period?

Re:Interesting fact

[omnichad]

Maybe it's just part of the running joke that 2015 is really 1993 in disguise. You know, with a Jurassic Park movie out and all.

The underlying issue:

[Futurepower(R)]

If Microsoft had communicated more clearly, this discussion wouldn't be necessary. Microsoft is extremely badly managed.

Re:The underlying issue:

[Penguinisto]

To be fair, this may be largely due to the whole culture-change thing going on there at the moment.

Times like this that I kind of miss Mini MSFT... yeah he works for the Borg, but his insights are pretty excellent.

Autopatcher helps avoid abusive updates.

[Futurepower(R)]

"Blocked that as well, you never know what they spam you with..."

At present, the best way to update Windows 7 is to use Autopatcher. The Autopatcher group helps everyone avoid Microsoft's anti-customer "updates".

Microsoft's updates are usually poorly described. The business rules Microsoft has made for itself do not include being honest or complete in describing the control Microsoft wants over computers.

Re:windows 10 is NOT free

[Saint Gerbil]

From what I take from that you can continue to be a beta tester for as long as you like (but you need to keep upgrading and may get flaky builds) with out a licence, or you can opt out the insider program for a finished copy of windows where you will upgrade for free if you had windows 7 or 8.

If you opt out and don't have a valid\legal copy of windows then you will get kicked out.

Re:windows 10 is NOT free

[Applehu Akbar]

Although I'm not a Windows user myself. I maintain a virtualized test copy running under That Other OS for the benefit of my IT clients. I have a standardly purchased XP and a standardly purchased Vista (in the time when it was new) and am now running the beta 10.

Re:windows 10 is NOT free

[Anonymous Coward]

>( i am NOT in any social crap )

Why do you think the buttons are there for you? Do you think the world revolves around you?

Re:I am even more happy I dropped Microsoft

[Anonymous Coward]

I installed ubuntu once.

Thanks for posting

[waspleg]

I'd mod you up if I could. You pretty much confirmed my fears that Microsoft basically wants to sell you on your PC being a phone that you have 0 control over and will probably lead to odious bullshit like this. They royally fucked up with Windows 8. They killed technet. Windows 10 is more of the same. I've been clinging to Windows 7 Ultimate on my primary desktop because games/drivers. I just hope Valve dumps enough money to make Linux a truly viable alternative.

Simple yes or no question

[Opportunist]

I have a licensed copy of Windows 7. Will I retain all the rights and accesses I have with this copy when upgrading to the Windows 10 license?

It is a very simple question. You may choose to answer "yes" or "no". No buts, no ifs, no legalese bullshit. There are two legit answers to this question and no others are accepted as valid input.

Re:Simple yes or no question

[Lanforod]

In that case, the answer is NO. He no longer has access to Windows 7, even if he started from scratch after 'upgrading' to Win10.

Re:Simple yes or no question

[Espectr0]

Sadly the answer is "we do not know yet"
Everyone is asking about what happens to your retail key. Will you keep the same product key? Will they give you another? Will you be able to change your motherboard? Will you need to update for your product key to "transform" and work as Win 10 retail from now on? For us gamers, these are the questions.

Re:Simple yes or no question

[Anonymous Coward]

So as of mid-day a yes, no, and unsure. Perfect! You may now take your choice :)

Re:Simple yes or no question

[Opportunist]

We don't know yet? We're supposed to make a decision concerning our OS and don't even get told what the licensing terms will be like, but we're supposed to buy it and hope for the best?

Re:Simple yes or no question

[Opportunist]

In this case I choose a definite maybe. And that's final. At least temporarily.

Re:Simple yes or no question

[Anonymous Coward]

Reply hazy, ask again later

Re:Simple yes or no question

[Anonymous Coward]

no

How can they tell if it's "geniune windows"

[Anonymous Coward]

Genuine windows devices = activated by slic injection or kms? I'm still running my very not genuine copy of windows 8 that I got for free by utilizing the full upgrade bug, updated to windows 8.1 with same key, and am getting the windows 10 upgrade notice. I have also installed a few copies of windows 7 using a slic injector with OEM keys. These all have the windows 10 upgrade message. How are they going to know if it is geniune or not? Will people have to show proof of purchase? Microsoft can't even keep their activation servers from activating my slic'd machines...how are they going to stop people from getting free windows 10?

Re: There are ten types of people

[tehcyder]

You do know that that is exactly the wrong way to phrase the joke right? And that therefore you DON'T know the difference??

It's called trolling and I thought it ws quite funny.

Re:windows 10 is NOT free

[Demonoid-Penguin]

And will people who just downloaded the beta, and are using it and filing bug reports, still get a free copy of the release evrsion?

You're replying to the wrong post (and yes, you will - as long as you keep testing, which maybe isn't completely free.).

Re:windows 10 is NOT free

[Anonymous Coward]

If you opt out and don't have a valid\legal copy of windows then you will get kicked out.

TFA puts it slightly differently:

If your system upgraded from a Genuine Windows 7 or Windows 8.1 license it will remain activated, but if not, you will be required to roll back to your previous OS version or acquire a new Windows 10 license

However, this is still not 100% clear what happens if you performed a clean install of the Windows 10 preview. The "if not" may refer to "you did upgrade, but your Windows 7 or 8.1 was not genuine" or "you did upgrade from a non-genuine Windows or did a clean install".

Re: There are 10 types of people

[OhSoLaMeow]

There are 10 types of people in this world. You are not either of them.

FTFY.

Re:windows 10 is NOT free

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm with him, share buttons + social media is crap

Re:I am even more happy I dropped Microsoft

[Anonymous Coward]

My son disagrees. He has/had Windows 8.1 on his computer and he asked me to dual-boot it with Linux for him. He never uses Windows any more.

So suck on that.

Re:windows 10 is NOT free

[Anonymous Coward]

If you can't deal with people who shout because they can't use adblock, that's YOUR PROBLEM!

Re: There are 10 types of people

[Anonymous Coward]

There are two types of people in this world:
          1. Those who divide people in this world into types
and
          2. Those who don't

Re:There are ten types of people

[hoggoth]

> There are two kinds of people:
> 1. The ones that can extrapolate

I would argue that by stating there are two kinds of people, you have set up a mental model of a set of two. Then by leaving one of the two to the readers imagination you are requiring *interpolation* not extrapolation. You are not extending the set.

Re:THEY CAN'T

[Anonymous Coward]

they're not going to stop anyone.
they want everyone to upgrade
it has to sound good to shareholders
windows 11 will be many things
not one of them is released
features released in 10.1
10.2 10.3
10.4 10.5
10.6 10.7
10.8 10.9
all in the name of windows insider
windows 11 will see the light of day
for free you run the beta
for free you run the stable
pay for the old version
pay for the new? nah that's old school.

I don't want it

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't want any of that shit. No, not the "better performance" either, especially if it comes attached to all the other shit. You can take Windows 10 and shove it up your asshole sideways. And if you're "surprised" at that reaction, it's probably because you're a moron.

Re:I am even more happy I dropped Microsoft

[nobodie]

I work in a win7 only environment. Only except for me, running Fedora 21 (last week, 22 this week). The number of people that are openly envious is astounding. Just yesterday I was doing screenshots with the keyboard printscreen button: theirs is disabled, or never worked or whatever and they would like to have it. IT doesn't know how to do it. I can do a screen cast with options from an icon on my header, I can paste from a pastebox on the same header, I have the weather on the same header, and the time and date is easily readable on that same header,I have a disappearing dock, multiple desktops, etc, etc ,etc and they all work 24/7.Did I mention that this is Fedora, a Bleeding Edge distribution that runs testing for Red Hat?

So very very tired of people who really don't know shit.

BTW, I was talking to our "IT" tech just yesterday (sorry, Friday actually). He mentioned why they do everything at the university (where I work) in MS. MS gives them everything for free. The training, the OSs the support, the seats, everything is free. I bought a new copy of Win7 for a KVM instance at home for $15 at the computer store, which is a private company on campus, but with a faculty ID I get it cheap. Every morning when I use OWA to check my mail through the MS mail server I get an offer to get Office 365 for free.

This is the embrace. The tech I was talking too knew he was working with an SQL db, but he didn't even know that MYSQL and Maria were the same, even though the real hard core techs at the school run red hat for the HPC mainframes, he admits they are "way above me, I don't even talk to them." When I asked why he chose SQL rather than a noSQL or Postgres, he didn't even know what they were. That is the sad reality of MS today. They are extinguishing knowledge to protect themselves from superior competition.