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79% of Airbnb Listings In Barcelona Are Illegal

dkatana writes: Barcelona has more than 16,000 Airbnb listings and, according to reports on Cities of the Future, 79% could be illegal. "In April, Airbnb's European General Manager Jeroen Merchiers confirmed, during the Student Tourism Congress in Barcelona, that the platform has more than 85,000 listings in Spain alone." But most Airbnb hosts do not apply for a permit, fail to pay insurance and tourist tax, and ignore Catalonian law that forbids short-term rentals of rooms in private homes. "Residents," says the article, "had been complaining about the rising number of tourist apartments and the conduct of the mostly student-age renters. The majority from Italy, Germany and the UK were partying all night, some running around naked, and generally trashing their neighborhoods."

59 of 104 comments (clear)

  1. Running around naked by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    ...get used to it, that's fully normal here in germany, italy and UK.

    1. Re:Running around naked by PPH · · Score: 4, Funny

      People can't just go running around naked, partying and trashing the neighborhood without paying the appropriate government fees.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    2. Re:Running around naked by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 2

      Yes, they should just accept their neighborhoods being trashed by naked, drunken idiots. Where do they think they live, some prudish town in the U.S.?

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    3. Re:Running around naked by ColdWetDog · · Score: 2

      At least in the US, public nudity should be considered a violation of the Geneva Convention, the Smoot-Hawley Act, general concepts of decency and a Crime Against Nature.

      There is a reason that cultures uniformly (pun intended, I suppose) develop social norms that include clothing.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  2. "Are" or "could be"? by mi · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Words have meanings — some times, they even have consequences. The title says:

    79% of Airbnb Listings In Barcelona Are Illegal

    The write-up says:

    79% could be illegal

    The former is a statement of fact and a serious allegation. The latter is just as non-committal and devoid of information as the (in)famous promise of Geico's advertising.

    Which is it?

    do not apply for a permit, fail to pay insurance and tourist tax, and ignore Catalonian law that forbids short-term rentals of rooms in private homes

    Phew... Malum prohibitum crimes: it is only wrong because it is illegal. Screw you, Statists, get back to enforcing the malum in se — you know, the kind of thing, that is illegal because it is wrong.

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    1. Re:"Are" or "could be"? by Nemyst · · Score: 2

      While I don't know the reason for a "tourist tax" or for the Catalonian law mentioned (there could be good reasons, or not), not having insurance sounds to me like a serious problem. You're hosting people, you should have all the required protection that lets you cover the cost if something bad happens.

    2. Re:"Are" or "could be"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      you know, the kind of thing, that is illegal because it is wrong.

      Like disrupting a residential neighborhood by turning into into a bacchanal so you can make a quick buck?

      If the community says "it is wrong to rent out homes to a bunch of drunken shitheads in this neighborhood," then it *is* illegal because it is wrong.

      Good thing you agree that the government should crack down on this sort of thing.

    3. Re:"Are" or "could be"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      A Slashdot summary doesn't accurately reflect the FA. News at 11.

    4. Re: "Are" or "could be"? by ThatsMyNick · · Score: 2

      But running around naked is illegal on its own right. It has nothing to do with unauthorized rental of homes or airbnb.

    5. Re:"Are" or "could be"? by roman_mir · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Not having insurance means this: the hotel industry lobbies the government to make competition illegal, that is all it is.

    6. Re: "Are" or "could be"? by IANAAC · · Score: 1
      I suppose I agree, but in the article itself, it does explain why it's difficult to get an accurate figure.

      Since most of these places aren't registered as tourist rentals, it's hard to come to a concrete number. The article also explains that AirBnB doesn't actually give exact addresses until the transaction is completed, making outside tracking difficult.

    7. Re:"Are" or "could be"? by krouic · · Score: 4, Informative

      Not sure how the tourist tax works in Catalonia, but here is how it works in Switzerland.
      A typical example is a ski resort, where in the non touristic seasons (winter, autumn) there are 500 permanent residents, while in the high seasons (winter, a bit less in summer), there are up to 5'000 residents. The 500 permanent residents have to provide, through their local taxes, the infrastructure (roads, energy, garbage collection, etc.) required for the 5'000 people in the high seasons, which is not fair. So the tourist tax is meant to correct this, a tax is due for each day a tourist spends at the resort, to finance the overall infrastructure. The hotels and rented flat owners have to collect this tax from their customers. Some include this tax in their overall prices, some others, to look cheaper, do not and charge the tax extra.

    8. Re: "Are" or "could be"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Bullshit. All business are required to be insured to avoid people getting screwed by malpractice.

    9. Re: "Are" or "could be"? by mi · · Score: 1

      I suppose I agree, but in the article itself, it does explain why it's difficult to get an accurate figure.

      The difficulty of obtaining accurate figures is no excuse for making shit up. Though, of course, as the Climate Science's lead is showing, the practice is increasingly acceptable...

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    10. Re: "Are" or "could be"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      re-read your post, i think you might see the issue with what you wrote.

    11. Re:"Are" or "could be"? by roman_mir · · Score: 2

      First: it is false to assume people don't have insurance just because they did not pay for a government license.
      Second it is false to assume that a flat owner is unaware of the risks.
      Third not buying insurance does not in any way imply inability to pay for damages should that be necessary.

      It is you, who lives in a black and white world, where absence of a government seal means some kind of a problem and presence of a government seal means some type of a guarantee of quality or whatever.

      Individuals must be free to make individual decisions and live with any consequences.

    12. Re:"Are" or "could be"? by Affenkopf · · Score: 1

      Look I don't expect that people to read the article but at least read the whole summary: Residents of neighborhoods have very good reasons to want the laws enforced. Residential neighborhoods aren't places for twenty somethings to spend a holiday drunk and disruptive. It's illegal because making it legal wrecks neighborhoods. Malum in se.

    13. Re: "Are" or "could be"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      He's talking about liability insurance you dolt. Your required to buy liability insurance to prevent others from being screwed by your negligence. An acceptable alternative to requiring liability insurance is requiring bonding which would be akin to the savings method you mentioned the only difference being is that the savings is held by a thirdparty to make sure it doesn't disappear.

    14. Re:"Are" or "could be"? by ultranova · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Not having insurance means this: the hotel industry lobbies the government to make competition illegal, that is all it is.

      According to the summary, the customers are "partying all night, some running around naked, and generally trashing their neighborhoods". The hotel industry is perfectly within their rights to demand everyone plays by the same rules. If you can figure out a better way to run a hotel, good for you; but if you simply figure out a new way to externalize the costs, you should be forced to eat them - and for Joe Average, that means licensing and insurance.

      As a side note, we have far too many people who want to be treated as business geniuses despite doing nothing but turning costs to externalities, and often even making them costlier in the process. It's that failure of human spirit that makes it impossible to have completely free markets.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    15. Re: "Are" or "could be"? by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      You don't need to buy insurance to be insured, it is called savings.

      These 'businesses' don't show proof they have savings to cover an incident.

      I agree with the others that your understanding of how insurance works is incomplete.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    16. Re:"Are" or "could be"? by rtb61 · · Score: 2

      You kind of ignored the planning part, factually the most important part. People pay extra for homes in better, quieter more stable neighbours. Let's say MI the grandparent is a dick douche bag and wants to buy up a good neighbourhood cheap. No planning laws, so MI the dick douche bag buys one house a full price and starts renting it out for biker parties, every single night. Neighbours can do nothing because no planning laws and a driven out, new buyers don't want to buy in at full price because of stories about 7 day a week all night biker parties (and drugs and sexually aggressive behaviour and random acts of violence). So this enable MI the anti-planning dick douche bag to buy up all the properties cheap and voila shut down the biker parties and rent the properties at a high return.

      People go on holiday to party and because they are on holiday they party every single night they are physically able to. People pay extra to live in quite well behaved neighbourhoods. Inevitably MI dick douche bags turn up trying to exploit this for their own personal greed and those societies grab those arseholes fine the crap out of them and shut them down, whilst the MIs of the world bitterly complain about statism and their being prevented from exploiting every imaginable situation to their advantage and of course screw everyone else.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    17. Re:"Are" or "could be"? by stephanruby · · Score: 1

      You're hosting people, you should have all the required protection that lets you cover the cost if something bad happens.

      You're not necessarily hosting people.

      Just like putting a for sale sign on a car doesn't mean that you have sold your car.

      Listing a property for a particular set of dates, or listing the same property multiple times, doesn't necessarily mean that any of your listings were accepted.

    18. Re:"Are" or "could be"? by ultranova · · Score: 3, Informative

      Somebody got drunk and noisy, so what?

      So your business is causing a disturbance that extends to my property. The noise and drunks are basically waste products of your business; you don't get to dump them on my lawn.

      People living in those houses never drink? Never get noisy?

      Sure they do, and when they do, the police comes to take the criminal scum away. But that doesn't work when you have a whole new customer lined up for the next night, and another one for the next, and another one...

      Are hotels covering tourist behaviour outside of hotel premises?

      Hotels are subject to zoning laws which generally put them into commercial districts, precisely for this reason.

      You are full of shit, just like this entire case.

      No, I'm simply defending my property rights. The hotels are defending their right to equality before law. The only one full of shit here is you, even by your own standards.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    19. Re:"Are" or "could be"? by radio4fan · · Score: 1

      According to the summary, the customers are "partying all night, some running around naked, and generally trashing their neighborhoods".

      Except this is largely bullshit (on the part of TFA, not having a go at you). There is currently a big backlash against tourists in Barcelona, it's almost something of a moral panic.

      There was one incident last year of two italian guys running into a supermarket naked. One incident.

      I've not heard of any neighbourhoods being 'trashed' either.

      Since then, tourists have become the official outlet for the xenophobia of many Barcelonans (it was Madrid before).

      We get something like 7.5 million tourists a year in Barcelona. The vast, vast majority are well behaved.

      And of course, the behaviour of tourists is a completely different issue to licensing tourist apartments and short-term lets. We get a huge number of young tourists staying in completely legal hostels, and they're some of the worst behaved. Basically, the hostels are targeting the drunken mexican-sombrero-wearing teenager crowd, because who else wants to share a room with 15 other people?

      The police, meanwhile, do virtually nothing about unruly behaviour in the streets. I was out partying in the streets on Nit de Sant Joan on Tuesday until dawn: tens of thousands of people (mainly local) dancing, drinking, pissing in the street, vomiting; I didn't see a single policeman all night.

      But they're not adverse to banging on the doors of apartments with guiris staying in them and demanding to see tourist licences, which the tourists don't have (the flat owner has the licence, not the guest). This happened to a young German woman I know, who was staying in a completely legal tourist apartment. They could have just looked up the address on the Catalan government website, but it's a lot more fun for two armed goons from the Mossos d'Esquadra to scare the shit out of a young woman travelling alone in a strange city, threatening to chuck her out onto the street if she couldn't produce the licence in 24 hours (of course they don't have the power to do this).

      I love this city, but the hostility from a lot of people to everyone who isn't catalan gets me down.

    20. Re:"Are" or "could be"? by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      But they're not adverse to banging on the doors of apartments with guiris staying in them and demanding to see tourist licences, which the tourists don't have (the flat owner has the licence, not the guest). This happened to a young German woman I know, who was staying in a completely legal tourist apartment. They could have just looked up the address on the Catalan government website, but it's a lot more fun for two armed goons from the Mossos d'Esquadra to scare the shit out of a young woman travelling alone in a strange city, threatening to chuck her out onto the street if she couldn't produce the licence in 24 hours (of course they don't have the power to do this).

      The correct course of action is for the government of where these tourists are mostly from to issue travel advisories to that area, making sure the papers in that area get word of it. Then the powers that be there, who profit from tourism, will "have a chat" with these enforcers, some of whom may work for them anyway.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    21. Re: "Are" or "could be"? by mjwx · · Score: 1

      But running around naked is illegal on its own right. It has nothing to do with unauthorized rental of homes or airbnb.

      Public nudity isn't illegal in Spain. Please stop assuming everywhere in the world has the same laws and prudishness as your homeland.

      However people having a rowdy party every 2-3 nights right next to your sleepy casa is a serious problem. This is one of the big reasons that hotels are typically not put in residential areas.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    22. Re:"Are" or "could be"? by znrt · · Score: 1

      Which is it?

      do not apply for a permit, fail to pay insurance and tourist tax, and ignore Catalonian law that forbids short-term rentals of rooms in private homes

      Phew... Malum prohibitum crimes: it is only wrong because it is illegal. Screw you, Statists, get back to enforcing the malum in se — you know, the kind of thing, that is illegal because it is wrong.

      there's a reason. barcelona is a dense city and living places are scarce. for several years there's been a trend of people buying out flats for short time rentals during touristic seasons, specially in the most sought after quarters. that's good business for some but makes home scarcity worse for locals.

      i'm assuming those airbnb listings aren't actually from people sharing a room, but from such 'entrepreneurs'. (this is my speculation, no first hand information here)

      and the running naked thing can be a real nuisance for some, too. again, it's a tight city and drunks shouting on the streets at night won't let you sleep, plus you might find out in the morning that they have also urinated on your building's front door. not nice. that's probably exaggerated a bit in the media. however, it's still undesirable tourism.

      funny thing is ... local authorities now could just scan those airbnb lists and start dusting off those houses. wanna bet?

    23. Re:"Are" or "could be"? by znrt · · Score: 1

      Nit de Sant Joan on Tuesday until dawn: tens of thousands of people (mainly local) dancing, drinking, pissing in the street, vomiting; I didn't see a single policeman all night.

      come on, it's sant joan ...

      I love this city, but the hostility from a lot of people to everyone who isn't catalan gets me down.

      this is, of course, bullshit.

      and how does this bs match with you admitting ' like 7.5 million tourists a year in Barcelona. The vast, vast majority are well behaved'? care to support it with some facts, apart from the obvious one that bulls do bully?

    24. Re:"Are" or "could be"? by radio4fan · · Score: 1

      come on, it's sant joan ...

      Exactly. So there are thousands of drunk people setting off fireworks in the street all night, and no visible police presence. No wonder a small minority of tourists think you can do whatever you want in Barcelona with no repercussions.

      I'm not saying the police should stop Sant Joan, I'm saying that there should be a police presence in places where there are a lot of drunk people, and there isn't. Escudellers is where the worst tourists seem to end up, and it's full of beer-cerveza men, people selling drugs quite openly, etc. No police at all, because I guess they'd have to get out of their cars, which they pretty much never do in the evening. Spain has nearly twice the number of police per person as England, and in England they manage to find the resources to police events like this, or trouble hotspots.

      this is, of course, bullshit.

      No it's not. A lot of people here are hostile to guiris. For one thing, that's why they have a borderline offensive name for them. Maybe you're not -- and that's great -- but a lot of people are. Try renting a flat as a guiri, for example: some of the flats are mysteriously rented, yet they're still advertised, and when your catalan friend calls for you, they're suddenly available again.

      Try getting a NIE (even as an EU citizen) since the hostility got ramped up last year. Now you need a work contract, padrón, and more. And try getting a work contract or a lease on a flat (to get the empadronamiento) without a NIE. Possible, but hard. And you won't be able to get your utilities connected without a NIE (and you have to wait weeks for a cita previa). The system has been changed to make it as hard as possible, and it's not like this in Andalucía, for example, so it's not a national issue. It's clearly illegal under EU law on freedom of movement to force EU nationals to jump through hoops like this, but the government are going to do it for as long as they can get away with it.

      Also witness the election of Ada Colau; discuss this with Barcelonans and the first thing they will talk about is tourists, and how they've made the city unliveable, yada, yada. Despite the fact that large areas of ciutat vella were too dangerous to go into before the post-olympic rebirth (eg Sant Pere, Born, Barceloneta, parts of Gòtico), largely down to increased numbers of tourists and foreigners making these areas too valuable to Barcelonans to leave them to the prostitutes and criminals.

      and how does this bs match with you admitting ' like 7.5 million tourists a year in Barcelona. The vast, vast majority are well behaved'? care to support it with some facts, apart from the obvious one that bulls do bully?

      And there you go. Your prejudice is showing. Almost half the tourists come from Spain; are they the problematic tourists you're thinking of? What about all the people who queue to go to the Sagrada Família or Parc Güell. Are they drunk or running around naked? All the Chinese and Japanese tourists? The cruise-ship day trippers? The families with children?

      The reality is that if you walk down the Rambla at the busiest times, you'll massive numbers of tourists, and it's bloody obvious that virtually none of them are the type to be pissing in the street or running around naked later that day.

    25. Re: "Are" or "could be"? by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      You don't need to buy insurance to be insured, it is called savings.

      Utter nonsense. Apart from a few multi-multi-millionaires, most people could not cover the damages involved in a wrongful death suit. Here in the UK, for example, employers' liability insurance is generally in the order of GBP10 million.

      I seriously doubt that most people renting out rooms to students have 10 million in the bank.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    26. Re: "Are" or "could be"? by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      people should have their own insurance. then we wouldn't need any of this oppressive shit.

      If they were set up like a legitimate small business then they would have insurance.

      If someone gets killed by the negligence of a hotel, at least their family will receive financial compensation. Good luck suing some clown who rents out his flat to students for a few extra tax free euros a year.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    27. Re:"Are" or "could be"? by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Individuals must be free to make individual decisions and live with any consequences.

      The reason you have business liability insurance is so that if (for instance) you cripple a child who then requires expensive medical supervision for the rest of their lives, your insurance company can pay them.

      This means that you don't have to bankrupt yourself and/or live the rest of your life paying most of what you earn to the child's family and, more to the point the family will actually get paid their damages, and not have to depend on getting blood out of an unemployed stone.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    28. Re: "Are" or "could be"? by ThatsMyNick · · Score: 1

      Well it is residents of Barcelona that are complaining about public nudity. May be, they should consider making it illegal then.

    29. Re:"Are" or "could be"? by znrt · · Score: 1

      come on, it's sant joan ...

      Exactly. So there are thousands of drunk people setting off fireworks in the street all night, and no visible police presence. No wonder a small minority of tourists think you can do whatever you want in Barcelona with no repercussions.

      I'm not saying the police should stop Sant Joan, I'm saying that there should be a police presence in places where there are a lot of drunk people, and there isn't.

      you're mixing things here. drunks get drunk, fireworks are set off mainly by kids with their families and these things happen in separate environments. none of this is a crime so police presence is not needed at all. accidents do happen, though, and even occasional vandalism. i've seen many waste containers light up on sant joan. firefighters tend to show up promptly. no big deal.

      if you love this city it's a pity you didn't get a glimpse into the magic and the exceptionality that imbues this very special night. this pagan celebration dressed with a catholic 'cover' for political reasons is (was?) pretty unique and pretty deep in the roots of collective conscience. and although it has been very much 'globalized' and lost much of its charm there is still a lot going on for many. you should have seen it when i was a kid, with bonfires on every beach, on almost every crossing in the eixample, a freaking wonderful ... warzone of fire, love, happiness and magic. you could literally breath it. it was that very special night when you were allowed to do all things usually prohibited, literally play with fire, where generations of catalans have gotten laid for the first time. if you are alive ... what's fucking not to like?? :D it's sant joan!

      of course it isn't the same now, partly taken over by the party-till-you-drop industry. the same one that is absorbing new year's revetlla and the festes de gràcia with their top quality product: cheap booze, extremely loud music and a license to piss on the streets. aaaand tourists, of course. you did know that you were coming into an underdeveloped country, did you? :)

      but it's still sant joan and i'm afraid you just haven't experienced it in an appropriate environment. it's actually a family/neighboor thing, you won't find it in mass parties, which are just the standard screw up. as a lone stranger you need to be hooked up by some friend into his/her circles. people honoring these traditions are dwindling but should not be hard to find yet. and catalans have nothing against foreigners, you will be welcome, i guarantee you.

      Escudellers is where the worst tourists seem to end up

      escudillers would be the last place i would choose for sant joan! it's probably fine for any other night if you're ok with lumpen and it's sort of burlesque and dissonant ambient. i liked it a lot for much of my youth, i don't go down there much lately but it still is pretty much the same ... in a different way.

      people selling drugs quite openly

      i honestly can't see a problem with that. were you forced to buy? :)

      Try getting a NIE (even as an EU citizen) since the hostility got ramped up last year. Now you need a work contract, padrón, and more. And try getting a work contract or a lease on a flat (to get the empadronamiento) without a NIE. Possible, but hard. And you won't be able to get your utilities connected without a NIE (and you have to wait weeks for a cita previa)

      hold on. every local is subject to exactly the same process to obtain his dni (the equivalent of your dnie), which is mandatory from age 16. and yes, bureaucracy is nuts. now listen: i once lost my dni. first of all, it had already expired 15 years ago and i never had the slighest trouble (apart from some bank clerk being a jerk and having to call up the director, occasio

    30. Re:"Are" or "could be"? by znrt · · Score: 1

      just wanted to add one thing to the police story, in case you wondered: i was born in barcelona but have german name and surnames, and absolutely look like a guiri. :)

    31. Re:"Are" or "could be"? by Agripa · · Score: 1

      While I don't know the reason for a "tourist tax"

      In the United States local jurisdictions view tourist taxes as free money. Tourists cannot vote.

    32. Re:"Are" or "could be"? by nobodie · · Score: 1

      I'm losing my mods to reply to this, just so ya know I'm serious....
      I run a room through AirBNB, in my home, we are booked most of the year and make 1/2 of my wife's income (it is her job to run it along with some other income streams she does). When people ask us:
      1) Aren't you afraid of having strangers in your house? No they are vetted by AirBNB, we can see them and talk to them any time before their arrival or while they are here. This is our home, so we take care of it.
      2) are there ever any problems. Yes, but not the armageddon shit people are talking here. Problems like really old guy who wanted extra home care. People with dogs they were training to bite and hold people. People who took our $60.00 organic cotton towels to dry their hair after using peroxide in it. Those are our real problems and they are easily solved.
      3) I heard that.... yeah, well some people talk shit, some people are stupid and some people believe urban legends. and all the above
      4) Do you....(regs, taxes, certificates, etc) yes, no, sometimes.

      The thing is that while for AirBNB itself they scrape pieces of income from each booking, they also work hard to provide services for the hosts that you don't know or think about: eg, They intervene in dispute resolution eg they sent a professional photog to do the listing photos for the room and the house. eg, they provide your income statement for taxes since you are a business, as well as other income tools. eg they make suggestions based on per diem day/week/month prices as to how to maximize room bookings. They also recognize that lots of people who have AirBNB rooms also travel to other AirBNB places and help to put that together for you. And much much more.

      We have had parties that our guests organized for friends here, but we were also invited. There was alcohol, but I don't drink so things don't get out of hand. I still see some of the people from those parties and check up on our guests and how they are doing. It is social as well as economic, nobody seem sto be thinking of it that way, and it is the hosts who are only in it for the money that give it a bad name. Gee, when has that happened before?

      --
      Subversion of spatial scale luxury decoration ideas.
  3. Only in Barcelona? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Most (if not *all*) major cities in Western countries have laws regulating room/house rental. By going through Airbnb or similar services you just ignore those laws, allowing hosts not to pay any taxes, not to have any insurances, and so on. Where's the news in that? Why do they think so many people offer housing through it?

    I'm not happy with the amount of bureaucracy that one has to go through just to rent out a room for a couple of weeks, but on the other hand unreported/untaxed income for the host or lack of insurance for the guest is just *wrong*. Like with Uber, countries should move towards a simplified and more effective jurisdiction (as owning an hotel and renting a room for a week are pretty much different things), and then they can force Airbnb to give out the names of the hosts and start enforcing such laws.

    1. Re:Only in Barcelona? by Virtucon · · Score: 2

      Yes most western cities do have regulations about this and it's focused on two main issues. One, is that rents in urban areas is on the increase, places that are purchased and available for temporary rentals create over speculation and drive up demand, punishing residents with lower availability and higher prices for living accommodations. Two, as you indicated, they skirt local taxation laws which are draconian in nature but generate revenue just from a tourist being there. Most cities have a daily room rate and sales taxes imposed on a hotel room. This can be over 20%, for example, Baltimore 24% ( 9% + 15% ) on a daily room price just for being in the city. How one differentiates a local resident trying to make a buck or a speculator buying up places to let out to temporary tourists is at the heart of the matter, therefore a city just bans the activity altogether and then comes after those who provide the service, the tenants. Airbnb can of course obviate themselves from the matter because they just connect potential travelers with those who are willing to let them stay at their place for awhile. Legal entanglements can be sticky, but Airbnb essentially can walk taking it's money with them leaving the sub contractors to twist in the wind.

      “The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy.” - Oscar Wilde

      --
      Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
    2. Re:Only in Barcelona? by AK+Marc · · Score: 2

      By going through Airbnb or similar services you just ignore those laws,

      Nope. Depends on the host. My host in Paris and Rome most certainly did more paperwork that looked to comply with the laws you imply. But the Venice host looked to be a student that flats elsewhere when "illegally" renting out his regular place.

      The one in Rome was an actual hotel, listed and registered as such, but doing AirBnB because it's a non-traditional hotel (more like a traditional BnB without breakfast), and AirBnB brings in non-traditional customers. Or the apartment complex in SG that uses AirBnB to help fill empty units until a permanent tenant can be found. Also doing business under hotel rules, as far as someone staying there can tell.

  4. What the fuck is Airbnb ?? by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

    Bloody lazy editors.

    1. Re:What the fuck is Airbnb ?? by Virtucon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's supposed to be intrinsic knowledge when speaking of companies that really don't produce anything and introduce a business model based upon others taking the risk while they reap a profit. Uber and Lyft are examples of these kinds of companies. They're viewed as perfect investment models and have insane valuations based on hype rather than substance. Welcome to the new economic reality.

      --
      Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
    2. Re:What the fuck is Airbnb ?? by Eunuchswear · · Score: 1

      I don't understand how AirBNB make money -- I've just spent 3 days trying to pay them $2500 and their fucking webshite won't let me.

      And the name is a lie -- they don't provide breakfast.

      --
      Watch this Heartland Institute video
    3. Re:What the fuck is Airbnb ?? by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      Give me $2500 dollars and I will send you a nice breakfast.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    4. Re:What the fuck is Airbnb ?? by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

      Ah, so basically Silicon Valley 2.0 but outside computers. Got it.

    5. Re:What the fuck is Airbnb ?? by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Bloody lazy editors.

      There's always a balance between stating the obvious (like always spelling out USA as United States of America, or writing "computer software and hardware company Microsoft") and producing meaningless articles about the release of version 0.2167 of someone's pet open source instant messenger app called "OMGWTFBBQLMAOYOLO".

      I've heard of Airbnb just because it has one of the stupidest names I've ever come across, so it sticks like shit to a blanket.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  5. Malum Prohibitum by Etherwalk · · Score: 2

    Screw you, Statists, get back to enforcing the malum in se — you know, the kind of thing, that is illegal because it is wrong.

    For a modern state to function, you need both kinds of law. Failure to pay taxes is malum prohibitum (bad because it is prohibited), but without paying taxes you don't have cops.

  6. AirBnB gives you $50k by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    AirBnB will reimburse up to $50k in loss or damage from a guest. Read that in a recent article about AirBnB...

    But you mitigate that as a host by not taking every single offer that comes along.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  7. Illegal: the new bussines model by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Ignore laws and make money by connecting "clients" and "providers", but pretending that this isn't a business. Also screwing the local people along the way, just like Uber...

    "That is not a sharing-economy. It is running a business and it needs to be regulated, taxed and made accountable." Right!!! actually tax'em more, since this "companies" don't produce nothing but trouble.

  8. AirBNB is hurting Barcelona, badly. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    I am an spaniard and I used to visit Barcelona regularly, is less than two hours by train from where I live.

    I can say without a doubt that AirBNB and the other “home-sharing” sites like Homeaway or Niumba are turning Barcelona into shit. Like a virus that eats its own host.

    Barcelona used to be a culturally vibrant city, but every day it resembles more and more a theme park. The city is simply not designed to accommodate this huge influx of tourism. Until 3-4 years ago, the city could more or less control the amount of tourism it received by limiting the number of hotel beds and private accommodations (“hostales” or “pensiones”). That way, the effects of tourism were limited to the massification of tourist attractions, and the effect was limited to the city center. And the negative effects of this floating population (strain on infrastructures, etc) was offset by a tax on each bed.
    If you were a resident, you could carry on with your life with only minor inconveniences, like increased traffic jams due to the high number of tourist buses.

    AirBNB has changed all that. By enabling an unlimited number of unregulated beds, spread everywhere, the number of tourists has boomed, and the quality of such tourism has plummeted. Long gone are the Japanese and european middle-aged families looking for a pleasant stay; all hail the drunken pissing, screaming, vomiting english and german kids and manchildren. It’s now a real problem.

    You have to remember that, unlike in America, everyone in Barcelona (even the very rich) live in flats. You have one key to your building, and one key to your flat. Now, if one of your neighbours decides to illegally rent one of these flats, that means that the keys to your building are being handed to random foreigners, and nothing can stop these ‘guests’ from pissing in your stairs, vomiting in your doorstep, and so on. And when you have to carry on with your 8-5 day job and have to support a family, is very difficult to do so when you have teenage dickheads screaming and drinking all night, seven nights a week, right below/over you, and you wake up to the smell of vomit and urine every day. You can’t sleep, you underperform in your work and your family suffers.

    Regulations exist for a reason. Tourism in a living city cannot self-regulate; this a Tragedy of the commons. AirBNB its hurting residents, its hurting legitimate and well-behaving tourists, and its replacing high-income tourism with the lowest of the low.
    For some reason , american companies operating outside America like to ignore local laws. In Barcelona, AirBNB has made a business plan of ignoring Barcelona city regulations. AirBNB is not breaking any law directly, but by refusing to hand out renters and hosts data to the city, its enabling this widespread problem.

    Residents are pissed for a reason. Recently they elected a new mayor that had vowed during the campaign to “crack down on the burden of tourism” That was three weeks ago so we'll see if that promise materializes or not.

    Some real, concrete changes that I have noticed as a long-time visitor of Barcelona:

    -Public parks like Parc Guell are no longer public, you have to pay to enter.
    -Huge queues for everything.
    -Overcrowding in all the main pedestrian streets, its not safe to walk anymore. Overcrowding in the beach also.
    -Public space taken by shitty street performers and shitty “manteros” selling chinese shit to tourists.
    -Pickpockets preying on drunk tourists everywhere.
    -Street violence, drunk english kids looking to pick a fight, clashes between police and drunkards
    -Prostitution in broad daylight in the city centre (!) As a mediterranean port city, prostitution has always been present, but not to these levels.
    -Drug traffickers posing as illegal alcohol street vendors ("lateros")
    -Old shops and commerces being replaced by shitty international chains

    1. Re: AirBNB is hurting Barcelona, badly. by Cinnamon+Beige · · Score: 2

      All problems in my city are of course the fault of illegal foreigners too. Racism never dies

      Actually, the problem is more that some cultures (and some individuals in other cultures) seem to view being a tourist in another country as a time to, well, drop all of your normal rules of behavior. Getting drunk and running amok is something you do when not home--at home you might exercise some moderation, or there'd be people who'd call you out on it whose authority you'd feel obligated to respect. (It's important to note that drunken behavior is only partially the actual effects of alcohol--a surprising amount of it is learned, which is why some countries don't have quite the same problems with alcohol as to them being drunk isn't seen as a 'license' for bad behavior.)

      It can get very awkward, very fast if you are in a group of friends going together on a trip...and you discover this way that part of your group sincerely believes that being away from home makes all sorts of bad behavior okay, especially if you're the type to get embarrassed and feel ashamed to be stuck with them.

    2. Re: AirBNB is hurting Barcelona, badly. by IamTheRealMike · · Score: 1

      Getting drunk and running amok is something you do when not home--at home you might exercise some moderation, or there'd be people who'd call you out on it whose authority you'd feel obligated to respect

      I hate to say it, given that I'm British, but unfortunately the problem of a subset of Brits getting completely wasted and engaging in shitty, boorish behaviour isn't something restricted to holiday times. For some reason the UK just has a far more serious problem with drinking than other cultures and it happens at home as well. I normally don't go to the sort of European resort towns that the hooligan set like to frequent but on the occasions that I have done, it's always embarrassing as fuck to be a young male British tourist because you can sense the suspicion locals have that you might be about to do something stupid. The worst was when I visited Bratislava. Lovely city (well, town, by UK standards). The pub in the city centre had the phone number of the British embassy on the beer mats, for people to call in an emergency. The men's toilets had a poster warning Brits specifically not to hit on the local girls. When I was there, a group of Brits came in with some unbelievably grotesque, obese men being led by some extremely hot local girl. Very obviously a stag do. As one of the fattest guys walked past the table where me and my friend were sitting he said (very loudly) "I want to see some TITS".

      I pretended to be Canadian. Luckily I don't have a strong British accent at all and I was travelling with an American, so it was somewhat plausible.

      I think you're completely right that this behaviour is partly learned and transmitted, like some sort of mind virus. For some reason Brits seem far more likely than other people to feel they can't have fun or be socially relaxed until they've got drunk, and will happily admit it. It's not seen as something shameful, people just blurt it out, like saying it somehow makes them one of the group. Combine it with a culture that practically celebrates "laddishness" as being fundamental to being a man, and you've got a recipe for trouble.

    3. Re: AirBNB is hurting Barcelona, badly. by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      I pretended to be Canadian

      If you don't think Canadians can get obnoxiously drunk too, you'rve obviously never been to Canada. ,p> I personally get fed up with snobbish British people criticising other British people on holiday, as though no one else ever got drunk.

      I've seen pissed Belgian Danish, German, Spanish and Turkish, and other people and they're all the same, they just get pissed in Foreign rather than English.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  9. Property taxes are highly regressive by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    e.g. they disproportionately harm the working poor. I know, it's counter intuitive because when we think poor we think no property. That's why I said the _working_ poor. In America if you're just scraping by virtually all of your wealth is tied up in property, specifically your primary domicile (aka your house). About 20-30% of your income goes to this one investment. It's generally not worth very much, and at times it even loses value. But it's the only investment you can afford.

    We fund services with property taxes because a) The rich get out of paying them because most of their wealth is tied up with the stock market and other forms of property with much lower taxes (or many, many more loopholes) and b) for the few taxes the rich pay it's easy for them to keep that money in their neighborhoods and ensure that it's not spent on the lower castes. This is why we fund our schools with property taxes while more decent folks (the Netherlands IIRC) mandate equal funding for all schools...

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  10. Pay back Caesar's things to Caesar by tepples · · Score: 1

    Let's go ask the church to preach paying taxes as a commandment

    A congregation that follows the Bible already does. As Jesus put it: "By all means, then, pay back Caesar's things to Caesar, but God's things to God."--Luke 20:25.

  11. There rich buy very little of that by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    you're thinking about the upper middle class, not the rich. The 1%. They mostly horde their wealth. They don't have a lot of options. No human being could possibly spend the kinds of wealthy they've claimed. It's not even money any more, it's raw power. The ability to decide who lives and who dies. Guys like you and me can't even begin to understand what that's like. It's like trying to understand what a billion is. You can write the digits down on paper but you don't really understand what they mean the way you do for the number 10...

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  12. The Treasury by tepples · · Score: 1

    But this was about Roman coins with Caesar's likeness on them. I don't see a picture of Obama on the dollar bill.

    The ministry of Jesus of Nazareth (29-33 CE) took place during the Tiberius administration (14-37 CE). I imagine that coins in circulation when Tiberius took office would have had a portrait of a past Roman head of state, such as Augustus Caesar. I'm no expert on the history of Roman coinage, and thus I don't know whether Rome recalled old coins after a new emperor took office or whether they were still usable after 20 years. But given the use of the generic "Caesar" rather than "Augustus" or "Tiberius", we can suppose for the moment that the portrait and the scripture refer to the office, not necessarily the person.

    All current Federal Reserve Notes carry an engraving of a Founding Father or past President of the United States as well as the signature of the Secretary of the Treasury, who oversees the department that includes the Internal Revenue Service, who had been most recently appointed by the President at the time of printing. The office represented by the portrait of President George Washington is currently occupied by Washington's successor Barack Obama, and these two 1 USD notes in my wallet carry signatures of John W. Snow and Timothy F. Geithner. Together, they represent the U.S. Treasury, and thus a follower of Jesus ought to pay the Treasury's things to the Treasury.

  13. What's the problem? by tehcyder · · Score: 1

    As long as it's disruptive it must be cool, right?

    --
    To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  14. Re:sharing economy under assault by tehcyder · · Score: 1

    Calling shitty business ventures like Airbnb and Uber part of the underground economy is an insult to the hard work done by pimps and drug dealers to make the world a happier place.

    --
    To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it