Slashdot Mirror


Analysis: Iran's Nuclear Program Has Been an Astronomical Waste

Lasrick writes: Business Insider's Armin Rosen uses a fuel-cost calculator from the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists to show that Iran's nuclear program has been "astronomically costly" for the country. Rosen uses calculations from this tool to hypothesize that what Iran "interprets as the country's 'rights' under the 1970 Non-Proliferation Treaty is a diplomatic victory that justifies the outrageous expense of the nuclear program." Great data crunching.

23 of 409 comments (clear)

  1. Nope! by penguinoid · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Is there any other way for a Middle Eastern country to earn our respect, other than to be able to nuke us?

    (And no, they don't need a rocket delivery mechanism -- it can be shipped pre-emptively to the country most likely to meddle with them.)

    --
    Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
    1. Re:Nope! by jandersen · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Is there any other way for a Middle Eastern country to earn our respect, other than to be able to nuke us?

      Ironically, Iran is the Middle Country most likely to deserve our respect for things other than having nuclear capabilities. When you look beyond the demented ravings of some of their past leaders, they are on a significantly higher level than their neighbours in many respects. As far as I now, they do actually have a somewhat functional democracy, a rather good education system etc. I have always felt they have deserved better than the press they have tended to get since Khomeiny toppled the puppet shah; they are not saints, by any means, but neither are they devils incarnate. They could be our friends in the longer term, unlike for example IS.

    2. Re:Nope! by allcoolnameswheretak · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This.
      I've also always wondered why the U.S. put all its money on the Arab countries instead of Iran. Iran at least has basic level of Democracy with presidential elections. Irans youth is, in general, more progressive and open minded that in most other islamic countries.
      The U.S. big ally and arch-enemy of Iran, Saudi Arabia, on the other hand, is a practically an absolutist monarchy practicing extremely conservative interpretation of Sharia law. It's also interesting to point out that many high-profile terrorists, such as Osama bin Ladin, were Saudi Arabians. I wouldn't be surprised if elements in Saudi Arabia's government secretly support or at the very least condone IS in Syria and Iraq. They seem pretty single-minded about supporting Sunni Islam against everything Shia.

    3. Re:Nope! by tranquilidad · · Score: 2, Insightful

      A functional democracy?

      Are you fucking kidding?

      A democracy requires a free and open market of ideas. Do you really believe such a market exists in Iran?

      Iranian Chain Murders
      Internet Censorship in Iran
      Blogger jailed for "propaganda against the state"

      It doesn't take much of a Google search to find examples of suppression of free speech in Iran.

      I'm sure the Iranian regime has deserved "better press [than] they have tended to get since Khomeiny toppled the puppet shah." "Better press" would have made the pure evilness of the regime much better known.

      The "demented ravings of some of their past leaders?" How about the demented ravings of their current leaders (and here)?

      - The west is plotting to "arouse the sexual desires" in Islamic Iran
      - Israel is run by sub-human leaders
      - Death to America
      - Israel is the sinister, unclean rabid dog of the region
      - Every Muslim who does not want to fight Israel is violating religious law
      - The destruction of Israel ... is one of the pillars of the Iranian Islamic regime

  2. Iran is not trying to save money by mi · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Iranians are not trying to make or even save money.

    They are trying to build a nuclear weapon. Economists need not apply...

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    1. Re:Iran is not trying to save money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Fresh brew of Kool-Aid from American propaganda machine?
      Keep on drinking and keep smiling. Everything you are told is true. Baaa....

    2. Re:Iran is not trying to save money by Beck_Neard · · Score: 5, Insightful

      > They are trying to build a nuclear weapon

      Prove it.

      So far everyone who has tried to prove this claim - including the CIA and Mossad - has come up short.

      There's simply no evidence that Iran is trying to build a nuclear weapon. At most, they might be retaining the ability to develop a nuclear weapon in the future should the need arise.

      Don't get me wrong. The mullahs are no saints. The Iranian regime is tyrannical and brutal. But realize that the propaganda machine is using the WMD line to trance you into gearing up for war, just like they did for Iraq. And you know the scary part? Even after you said you'd never be fooled again, IT'S WORKING.

      --
      A fool and his hard drive are soon parted.
    3. Re:Iran is not trying to save money by Beck_Neard · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It is true. And I not only think they will try to skirt the deal, I 100% trust that they will attempt something devious. And that's why there are verification measures in place in addition to the implicit understanding that the deal will be renewed after it expires. The deal all but ensures Iran will not have a nuke. Any other pathway (including bombardment) would lead to Iran probably having a nuke. You really think you can do better than professional scientists, diplomats, and disarmament experts?

      > Remember, the Koran promotes lying to infidels to gain their trust before back-stabbing them.

      This has nothing to do with religion. Every country will turn its back on a deal if it thinks it can benefit from doing so. Again, this changes nothing.

      --
      A fool and his hard drive are soon parted.
    4. Re:Iran is not trying to save money by Beck_Neard · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's insane to think Iran would open up its military facilities for inspection. No country has ever willingly done that except those that have surrendered unconditionally after defeat in war (such as Imperial Japan). It would essentially mean Iran gives up its right to exist as an independent sovereign nation.

      And they don't need to, anyway. Just monitor their supply chain of nuclear materials. That's what the current deal does.

      If you think about it, a military base is a stupid place to build a bomb anyway. There are a million other places that are less obvious and easier to hide. Those insisting that Iran open up its military sites are insisting on something they know Iran won't do so as to derail the deal. Their intentions are not sincere.

      --
      A fool and his hard drive are soon parted.
  3. What price is Freedom? by quenda · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They still hear the "Axis of Evil" speech, and would rather be North Korea than Iraq today.

    Iran is between Iraq and Afghanistan, not to mention a nuclear-armed Pakistan. Their strong desire for a deterrent weapon is understandable.

    1. Re:What price is Freedom? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      not to mention a nuclear-armed Israel...whose government continues to lurch disturbingly to the right

    2. Re:What price is Freedom? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      Their strong desire for a deterrent weapon is understandable.

      As is their strong desire for a weapon that can kill infidels, per the Koran. These are people who celebrate when a kid blows himself up, if he kills infidels in the process.

  4. Stuxnet by m.alessandrini · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I wonder how much decisive it was in the resulting waste of money and resources.

  5. Aaah, I fucking LoL'd. Seriously! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "they're not rational!!!!".

    FFS, look at Rapturists. Or Scientology. Or the denial machine in the USA. Rational? Hell, mainstream cable TV evangelicals are as mad as the frothingest Mullah on Al Jazeeri. With the filters you apply to "those foreign rag heads" applied to the USA, the USA is barking fucking mad, even compared to the *filtered* perception of Muslims.

    And you have an army 20 times the size.

  6. Re:They are looking forward by Beck_Neard · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Unlike ISIS, Iran is a country that has existed continuously for 2500 years. I highly doubt they would self-immolate just for a chance to 'nuke the infidel.' Even Israeli intelligence agencies have looked at Iran and concluded that, despite the sabre-rattling, they are rational agents with self-preservation as a primary concern.

    --
    A fool and his hard drive are soon parted.
  7. Re:They are looking forward by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There are around 600 churches and nearly 400,000 Christians in Iran. If they were really interesting in attacking "infidels" they would start with them.

    Iran considers the US a rogue state that illegally invades its neighbours and murders innocent civilians. Any way you frame it, they are not entirely wrong about that. Once you strip away the propaganda it's easy to see how they have quite legitimate security concerns.

    --
    const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
    SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  8. Re:Muon detector by Tailhook · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Are you aware that there are hundreds of legitimate fission power reactors operating around the world that are indistinguishable from plutonium production reactors using your "$10 billion" network of neutrino detectors? I'm also wondering if you realize that building primitive `atom' bombs (such as the one that destroyed Hiroshima) won't emit neutrinos because it doesn't involve nuclear fission.

    so gee I wonder why nobody is funding it

    It's not funded because — despite what the group-think malcontents around here have been trained to believe — the world isn't actually run by drooling idiots.

    --
    Maw! Fire up the karma burner!
  9. Re:They are looking forward by Beck_Neard · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Christians AND jews.

    Anyway, Iran doesn't scare me. What scares me are the warmongering far-right lunatics who think it's a good idea to bomb Iran.

    --
    A fool and his hard drive are soon parted.
  10. Armin Rosen? by tinkerton · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This is nothing more than Pro-Israel FUD surrounding the nuclear deal. There will be a lot more of that the coming weeks.

  11. Re:Respect has to be earned by PopeRatzo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Is there any way for any country to earn the respect of others

    Well, you start by not meddling in their politics and overthrowing their leaders, as the US did to Iran.

    http://www.history.com/this-da...

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  12. Self centered morons by Cafe+Alpha · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Actually the problem with Iran has nothing to do with the US. Iran and similar countries are thoroughly dysfunctional without needing any reference to the US, see Syria.

    All utter failures of authoritarian messes and delusions need to declare normal countries their enemy, otherwise their captive populations would demand a system like ours that wasn't Kafka's worst nightmare.

  13. Re:Cost of making the USA piss their pants: Pricel by Karmashock · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You're forgetting that everyone in the region hates Iran... except syria... and syria is falling apart.

    Iran economy is in shambles, they have no friends that are standing, and their activities are agitating the saudis, egyptians, Jordians, etc...

    Iran is fucked. Be Kasparov for second. War game this out 10 moves in advance.

    You'll see it is already checkmate on Iran.

    If they continue with their nuke program... best case... the rest of the middle east which mostly hates them will get nukes about five minutes later... at which point what has Iran accomplished?

    The US is not going to nuke Iran... but the saudis might... the egyptians might. The jordanians might.

    The Iranians have overdosed on their "great satan" propaganda. They've destroyed themselves. For nothing.

    Imagine a different world. A world where Iran wasn't going out of its way to be a dick head. Think of how wealthy they would be? They're a generally well educated and hard working country for the region. They could be an industrial power in the middle east. The Germany or Japan of the region. And look at what they are instead? A minor oil exporter and pistachio nut exporter... which the US is undercutting in both cases by producing lots of oil and lots of pistachios.

    And what did they get in return for sacrificing all of that? Nothing. Power? None. Respect? None. Leverage? None. Diplomatic support? None.

    They sacrificed everything for nothing.

    Go through the world and show me how many countries have prospered in dicking with the US?

    Is that Zero?... so... why do it? Besides fetal lead poisoning leading to chemically induced retardation... I'm at a loss as to what they think they're doing.

    Yes yes... history... colonialism... so what? What relevance does that have on 2015? Oh that's right... none. The US was at war with the British Empire for about fifty years. Then the British stopped trying to reconquer us and we became buddies.

    The Iranians should be trying to make friends with the US. It would mean an end to sanctions. It would mean military security. It would mean trade opportunities. Technology sharing...

    They'd very rapidly become a great power.

    But they've got such a raging hate boner that they can't see they're destroying themselves. FOR NOTHING.

    --
    I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
  14. Re: Cost of making the USA piss their pants: Price by currently_awake · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The world trade centre attack was done by Saudi terrorists, and the US attacked Iraq in retaliation. If an Iranian hydrogen bomb takes out New York or Washington I expect that what's left of the US government and military will attack whoever they really want to attack, regardless of the evidence.