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How the Next US Nuclear Accident Might Happen

Lasrick writes: Anthropologist Hugh Gusterson analyzes safety at US nuclear facilities and finds a disaster waiting to happen due to an over-reliance on automated security technology and private contractors cutting corners to increase profits. Gusterson follows on the work of Eric Schlosser, Frank Munger, and Dan Zak in warning us of the serious problems at US nuclear facilities, both in the energy industry and in the nuclear security complex.

32 of 128 comments (clear)

  1. Antropologist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Someone unqualified to access the safety of nuclear power plants declares them unsafe.

    1. Re:Antropologist by MtHuurne · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Often big accidents are not caused by technology failing unexpectedly, but by not following procedures or bad decision making. So it seems to me that an antropologist might actually have useful things to say about the weakest links: human operators and their managers.

    2. Re:Antropologist by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Someone unqualified to access the safety of nuclear power plants declares them unsafe.

      Did you bother to even skim the article? It was essentially entirely focused on human and organizational risk factors, the sort of thing that anthropologists do actually study, in US nuclear facilities and preferred methods of securing them.

      If the concern is "will the roof resist a hardware-store-improv mortar attack?", sure you don't want an anthropologist on the job. If the concern is "so, will the guards notice, give a damn, and do something about it; or will I just have to walk past a token force optimized for cheating its way to passing grades during perfunctory audits at lowest possible cost?", that's an anthropological question. And the answer appears to tend toward the latter.

    3. Re:Antropologist by AmiMoJo · · Score: 3, Informative

      Japanese shinkansen (bullet train) drivers are required to follow written procedures in the event of any kind of anomaly, failure or emergency. They have a book in the cab with all the procedures, and are not allowed to follow them from memory, they have to read each instruction from the book, speak it out loud and follow it.

      So far there have been no fatalities or serious injuries due to accidents on the shinkansen system, which has been operating since 1964 and carried billions of passengers.

      Unfortunately, nuclear plants might be too complex for this sort of thing to work.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  2. Just private contractors? by Fire_Wraith · · Score: 2, Insightful

    He thinks it's just private contractors that cut corners to save money?

    That's adorable.

    1. Re:Just private contractors? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2

      Surely this is the logical place to insert "In the public sector, they cut corners to waste money!" and then talk about military contracting for a while.

    2. Re:Just private contractors? by Fire_Wraith · · Score: 2

      Oh, no, of course not. In military contracting, we waste money to save money. It's sort of like having to destroy the village in order to save. See any number of "cost saving" measures that ended up costing us all kinds of money (not to mention lives) down the line.

    3. Re:Just private contractors? by turbidostato · · Score: 2

      "He thinks it's just private contractors that cut corners to save money? "

      While government *may* cut corners to save money, since their percived profit not necessarily is tied to pure monetary profit, private contractors, *must* cut corners to save money, since their profit is pure monetary profit.

    4. Re:Just private contractors? by Required+Snark · · Score: 2
      Don't underestimate the institutional and personal corruption factor. When the government outsources to contractors, there is an automatic revolving door between the government insiders and the contracting firms. The government workers put in their time at the relatively lower pay scale, and when they get out they just end up sitting on the other side of the same table at a much higher salary. Everybody knows how it works, and as long as nobody rocks the boat they get to retire with both a government pension and a second income and retirement plan.

      In some areas it moves even faster and nobody waits for retirement. If you want to work on Wall Street with an MBA/law degree and you can't get in, just go work for a government regulator. Four of five years of that under your belt and you end up being hired by the same firms you used to regulate. It's possible that this route will pay as well as going directly to the private sector.

      It's not as obvious as working with on project Z in government and then directly going to a contractor who works on Z, although that often happens. It's more that the contractors know they need to hire a certain number of people who have previous government managerial experience if they are going to make a credible bid for the job.

      I've seen this in person working for military contractors. To even get considered you need to have retired officers of a certain rank. When it comes to the corporate level, the requirement is having generals on you board of directors, or in management. In one case I saw a general who had a big part in the Iraq war get on the board of directors because the company wanted to go over the billion dollar mark in sales. They were starting to compete with the big boys, and without "contacts" they knew they would never get their. As far as I know it worked.

      --
      Why is Snark Required?
  3. Profit over safety by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I am GM of a nuclear power plan and my bonus is based on the total production of my power plant. My engineering tells me I have to take an outage to fix a pump but if I do that I am going to mix my goal and I am not going to get as big a bonus. That is a fact. The chance that the power plant might melt down that is theoretical. I am not going to take a real loss for a theoretical one no matter how bad the theoretical loss might be. And that is why nuclear power plants can't be run by for profit companies.

    1. Re:Profit over safety by SQL+Error · · Score: 2

      Right. No business would take a real loss to prevent a larger theoretical loss. That's why the insurance industry doesn't exist.

    2. Re:Profit over safety by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      There is no way you are a GM of a nuclear power "plan". I have 25 years of engineering, operations, and management experience in nuclear power plants in Canada and the United States and am currently a licensed Senior Reactor Operator. If you were a GM you might recognize that no one pump failure would result in a meltdown, and that we don't shut down nuclear plants typically when one pump has an issue - we have Technical Specification Limiting Conditions for Operation that provide a fixed time period for you to fix the equipment before you have to shut down. This is typically 72 hours, seven days, or longer if a risk-informed Technical Specification action time has been licensed by the NRC. How do you manage to cover up a failed periodic surveillance test of the pump that is mandated by your Technical Specifications? In my plant, about 10 people would all have to be complicit with you. Seems pretty unlikely given that they all make a lot more money than they'd make outside the industry, and you are opening yourself up to sanction - up to and including being barred from licensed activities for life.

      By the way - in my experience privately-run US nuclear power plants run far better than publicly-run Canadian nuclear plants, and the regulator is more potent. High production plants typically have much better equipment reliability and corrective action programs. This ensures that the equipment is available when it is called upon in an event. That tends to mean that higher performing plants are in fact safer.

      So yes - I'm calling you a liar.

         

    3. Re:Profit over safety by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2

      I am GM of a nuclear power plan

      And I am Jack's liver.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    4. Re:Profit over safety by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And I provided a refutation to his points, regardless of whether he is or not. If he's speaking hypothetically, then his lack of knowledge proves that he doesn't know what he's talking about. It's another old argument that can easily be disproven. Like how "old nuclear plants are less safe", even though the oldest plants in the country today are orders of magnitude safer now than they were when they were built.

      I sure hope he doesn't get on an airplane run by a private company - by his logic only the government should be allowed to run airlines. I can think of nothing more terrifying or uneconomic.

    5. Re:Profit over safety by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      I am not going to take a real loss for a theoretical one no matter how bad the theoretical loss might be.

      You have no sense of risk management and would never be the operator of a major hazard facility. These kinds of things are (fortunately for us) regulated.

    6. Re:Profit over safety by dunkelfalke · · Score: 3, Informative

      Here in Germany there was a minor scandal because Vattenfall - a private company - kept quiet about a hydrogen explosion and the ensuing cooling water loss in one of their nuclear power plants (INES 1, but still), and continuing to operate the power plant after quickly patching some pipes. This is against every law for operation of nuclear power plants. It were government officials, who found out about the problem and the company tried to talk themselves out of it.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    7. Re:Profit over safety by dunkelfalke · · Score: 2

      Nope. Cutting corners it was.
      The reactor was designed by cutting corners - enlarging a military reactor the scientists developed 20 years earlier and without a containment (too expensive and nuclear power were considered safe anyway). It was built by cutting corners - utilizing unqualified and uncaring workers, who were faking weld seams. It was operated by cutting corners - qualified people weren't employed - using former conventional power plant operators instead. The experiment ran by cutting corners - instead of waiting for a day due to reactor poisoning, the night shift manager decided to continue nevertheless.

      Oh, and due to a quite similar accident on the Leningrad power plant, which happened in 1975, the reactors of RBMK type were to be modified, but not immediately, only when reactors went offline for maintenance - cutting corners again. Guess on which day the Chernobyl reactor #4 was to be shut down for maintenance?

      The experiment itself was just the last straw. The actual reason for all this was a very very long string of cutting corners.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
  4. Wrong about automation and profit by 1SQ · · Score: 2

    The author has a point about the limited effectiveness of audits and drills, as it's nearly impossible (or at least really expensive and time-consuming) to execute one that's both realistic and safe. He missed the mark on the other two faults (reliance on tech and use of contractors), since people fail more often than tech and contractors are no worse than impossible-to-fire civil servants. The article carries echoes of the "profit is evil and government is good" mantra so popular lately.

    1. Re:Wrong about automation and profit by circletimessquare · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The article carries echoes of the "profit is evil and government is good" mantra so popular lately.

      that's a false dichotomy that only appeals to a simpleton

      profit taking cannot occur without the stability and security established by government. likewise, government cannot exist without tapping into the profits it makes possible. government without the individual pursuit of capital is hell. and the social darwinistic pursuit of capital be damned the externalities is a simply another flavor of hell

      it's just ignorance to imagine that capitalism and government are enemies. one does not exist without the other

      --
      intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
  5. One bogus comparison by mveloso · · Score: 2

    "The United States loves to use statistical metrics and audit procedures to decide which teachers and principals at public schools should be fired or retained"

    Which "United States" is he talking about, the other one that doesn't have teacher's unions?

    1. Re:One bogus comparison by BVis · · Score: 2

      You do know that the only difference between firing a non-union worker and a union worker is that the union worker has to be fired for a reason that management can document, right? A non-union worker can be fired on the spot for no reason whatsoever. A union worker has the right to progressive discipline up to and including termination.

      Stop spreading the lie that union workers can't be fired. They can, it's just harder for management to do so, because they have to have an actual valid REASON (shock horror why do they hate America).

      --
      Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
  6. Case in point: the US Navy by Iamthecheese · · Score: 5, Interesting

    You may have read the report of the USS Srark. This was a US naval ship fired on by an Iraqi F1. The facts of the case are that it was fired on and hit by two missiles and never fired a shot in defense or revenge. The captain was indicted and several officers were drummed out of the Navy. The official inquiry essentially blamed the ships officers. I looked more deeply into the matter a few months ago when I wanted to find out about possible reasons these guys weren't blown out of the water. Back to that later.

    My research on the Stark indicated that most of the ship's defensive systems including two kinds of fire control radar and the PHALANX CIWS were offline awaiting parts or maintenance that needed to be done by a contractor in port.. The real cause of the ship's poor performance under fire was accounting procedures designed to provide an 80% readiness/50% cost solution. Instead of acknowledging the cause the Navy chose to blame the closest people to the incident and call it done.

    Now the piracy incident. First, one of the comments says the pirates were in the big boat and the rafts were US Navy attacking it. I don't believe this to be true. I looked up comments on several forums found a consensus agreeing with a Youtube comment:

    This happened in 2006, the ship in the video is the USS Cape St George and then video was shot from the USS Gonzalez. They didn't try to attack or board anything, we sent a boarding team to talk to them and they pointed an RPG at us. All of the mounts kept jamming because they had old shitty ammo sitting on them exposed to the weather for months and there are no sights on those weapons (you're supposed to walk fire onto targets, difficult to do when your weapon jams every 3 rounds). Source: I was there

    The consensus was that the ammunition on the firing ship hadn't been properly kept dry, and was old. This causes jams. And they didn't do enough live-fire exercises to be able to reliably prevent this problem. Again, an 80%/50% solution. This isn't to say it's easy to hit small rafts in the dark with a jamming weapon but that's not the point. The Navy has all the latest whizbangery and night vision gear. Those rafts should have been shot up by the third burst.

    A third happenstance, part of the Stark incident IIRC: The ship was carrying old missiles and had to dump them into the sea ASAP. This prevented returning fire on the attacking jet. My conclusion is that the US Navy has a firmly entrenched culture of saving money at the cost of readiness.

    incomplete source: http://www.jag.navy.mil/librar...

    All that said: Why should we believe that if general military readiness is flagging to save costs in official government programs the government would do any better than these contractors? A choice has to be made and stuck to: budget or safety. The half assing, ass grabbing, and ass covering needs to stop.

    --
    If video games influenced behavior the Pac Man generation would be eating pills and running away from their problems.
  7. Re:Anthropologist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Except he really doesn't do anything. There doesn't appear to be any study, only the subjective (i.e., qualitative) third party claims, which doesn't mean that they are wrong, just that he didn't do anything himself. He does however launch an attack at quantitative methodology, which isn't a surprise, given that his article approach is a defence of his own field, at heart: If you can measure it, it is by default open to quantitative assessment.

    This applies to scales (hello psychometrics) which are almost never measured without error (heh, look: Error in variables and latent measurement models!), open ended responses (latent direlecht allocation models and similar) and multiple measurements from different sources (back to reliability and latent measurement models). He is right in principal, and makes the point in the article that having poor test security and design (where the testees' employers have access to, or even provide the examinations and assessments themselves) is wrong, and that systems that provide too many false positives are ignored.

    The correct approach to the final system would be a layered system, in which sensitivity increases with depth. As for assessments: no shit, don't let people grade themselves. Ever. And impose penalties and randomly conducted tests by third parties. If you want to hire this out: make it so that whoever succeeds get a bonus. Make the two sides compete. This only defines why QA is of vital importance.

  8. Environmentalists will cause the next nuclear acci by penguinoid · · Score: 3, Interesting

    My vote goes to the next nuclear accident being caused by environmentalists. Not direct sabotage, mind you, but protesting anything that might be done to upgrade or even maintain old plants or replace them with newer ones or safely store nuclear fuel. Then they'll say, "See how dangerous it is -- we told you so."

    --
    Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
  9. Re:Anthropologist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    Actually, a couple of additional points. If you read his other columns, which I have, you see Gusterson has a theme of dismissing quantitative methods, which are admittedly flawed here. It's interesting, because he decried the fundamental attribution error against Eric Shinseki (correctly in my opinion) but commits the very same error against quantitative methods in both that article and the one linked in the summary. Again, I would argue that he is decrying not a flaw in simple quantitative measurement, but instead a fundamental error in judgement that implies measuring something must necessitate that is measured without error.

    And also, I labelled multiple measurements from different sources just as latent measurement models. They are, however they are specifically known as Multiple Indicators Multiple Causes (MIMIC) model and/or Multitrait-Multimethod SEM. There's a distinction between the two, but they underlay a common goal of utilising different measurement sources to produce a higher ability to distinguish between error sources.

  10. Re:Anthropologist by semper_statisticum · · Score: 2

    and yes, dammit, I know I should have logged in before posting.

    --
    The Spanish Inquisition of Psychometrics; Burning all the heretics.
  11. Re:Environmentalists will cause the next nuclear a by hey! · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Every time nuclear power comes up someone blames environmentalists for the industry's problems -- in this case before the problems have manifested. It's an article of faith.

    So far as I can see there's only ever been one plant in the US that's ever been cancelled for environmental concerns is the proposed plant at Bodega Harbor, which as you can see on the map would have been right on top of the San Andreas fault. In every other case projects have been shut down after serious miscalculations in the industry's economic forecasting (e.g. lower energy prices in the 80s than anticipated in the 70s), often exacerbated by poor project management performance. In those cases environmentalists were just a convenient scapegoat for management screw-ups.

    You can see that because after the very largest anti-nuclear protests in history -- against Seabrook in NH and Diablo Canyon -- the plants were built and put into operation anyway. If a company had a plant under construction that it could make money operating, that plant would get built, even if thirty thousand people turned out to protest.

    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  12. Gen IV Reactors by Badlight · · Score: 2

    There are valid concerns about nuclear safety, but all too often these issues are spoken of as if they exist in a vacuum. Do you have any idea how many people solar panels and wind turbines kill, to say nothing of coal-fired power plants? More than nuclear, per unit power, even including accidents, and this is in normal operation, not an accident!

    In any case, as with all technology, it gets better. The latest reactors can't have the kind of serious accident seen at Fukushima or Chernobyl, and they solve the waste problem, as well.

    If there is a problem, it is that Russia and China are building them while we continue with these pipe-dream fantasies that we can somehow build enough solar and wind units before we start seeing serious climate disruption, that doing so would actually help, and that other, poor countries will just stop using energy, themselves.

  13. We need accountability by Archtech · · Score: 2

    Whatever your political disposition, it must surely be obvious that - just as in the world of banking and finance - the incentives are dangerously skewed. The arguments in favour of private enterprise focus on efficiency and the profit motive. So far, so good: but how are we to guarantee the quality of work done by private enterprise? It's surprisingly easy to enter the low bid, and then use weasel methods to deliver far less than was required and promised.

    Take the analogy of big banks. They gamble dangerously, so dangerously in fact that they are almost certain to fail after a fairly short time. Because they gamble so riskily, they make big profits. Then, when they step on a mine and get blown up, instead of being allowed to go bankrupt, they are bailed out by government using taxpayers' money. This has been described as "social security for the rich". The obvious solution is to forbid the creation of banks "too big to fail", and then allow nature to take its course. Also, no doubt, to enforce the separation between everyday consumer banking and legalised gambling.

    When it comes to government contracts, especially for potentially very dangerous projects such as nuclear power stations, we need to demand a far greater degree of accountability from the contractors. The Romans are said to have required that, whenever a new bridge or aqueduct was built, the designers and architects should stand underneath it. That gave them a powerful personal interest in safety; and they built in such adequate safety factors that much of their work is still standing (and even usable) today.

    What is the modern day equivalent of making an engineer stand underneath an aqueduct as it fills with water? If an industrial accident of any kind happens, possibly causing great harm, all those responsible should have to answer for their actions. Maybe the death penalty would be excessive, but certainly very long jail sentences would be in order. For a corporation, perhaps a fine equal to twice its annual profits coupled to prison sentences for all executives involved...

    It will be objected that this would raise the cost of such projects excessively. So be it: if there is a serious element of danger, the cost of avoiding that danger must be factored in. If we can't afford the project, again so be it.

    --
    I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
  14. Obligatory coal complaint by rasmusbr · · Score: 2

    The next major US coal disaster is just coal plants operating as designed on July 2.

  15. Alarmist nonsense might happen by SlithyMagister · · Score: 2

    Although it is prudent to be aware of possible modes of failure, and although it is prudent to examine cultural biases that may affect our safety, this particular article seems more like clickbait.

    So-called "news" has recently become over-populated with "might happen" sorts of stories, when entire pages are given over to what would amount to a paragraph in a larger article surveying all of the possible scenarios along with a relative measure of their likelihood.

    It might also happen (and might not) for several other rather unlikely reasons, none of which this article mentions.

  16. The next USA nuclear power plant accident is: by cellocgw · · Score: 2

    Sorry for the flamebait, but the next "accident" really is the complete failure to start building more power plants. The cost we're incurring by sticking w/ fossil fuels, in environmental damage, human health, $$ flowing to the Middle East, far outweighs either the cost of nuc plants or the potential hazards of such plants.

    Not all disasters are active. Some are purely passive but just as destructive.

    --
    https://app.box.com/WitthoftResume Code: https://github.com/cellocgw