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When Nerds Do BBQ
Rick Zeman writes: On this 4th of July, the day when Americans flock to their grills and smokers, Wired has a fascinating article on a computerized smoker designed by Harvard engineering students. They say, "In prototype form, the smoker looks like a combination of a giant pepper mill, a tandoori oven, and V.I.N.CENT from The Black Hole. It weighs 300 pounds. It has a refueling chute built into the side of it. And it uses a proportional-integral-derivative controller, a Raspberry Pi, and fans to regulate its own temperature, automatically producing an ideal slow-and-low burn."
After cooking >200 lbs of brisket while fine-tuning the design, the students concluded, "Old-school pitmasters are like, 'I cook mine in a garbage can,' and there's a point of pride in that. A lot of the cutting edge is when you take an art form and drag it back onto scientific turf and turn it into an algorithm. I don't think we've diluted the artistic component with this."
After cooking >200 lbs of brisket while fine-tuning the design, the students concluded, "Old-school pitmasters are like, 'I cook mine in a garbage can,' and there's a point of pride in that. A lot of the cutting edge is when you take an art form and drag it back onto scientific turf and turn it into an algorithm. I don't think we've diluted the artistic component with this."
Whomever it is, their begging the question to much
This.
Agreed.
Rediculous
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
I remember watching some BBQ competition TV series (figures, right?) and the winner was an asian dude who built his own PID BBQ fan controllers and used them with cheap grills. It's not impossible for a human to get that kind of consistency, but it's not expensive to let a computer do it any more.
Now, why aren't all the things PID? People regularly retrofit even digital appliances to be PID because they aren't already, how insane is that?
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Part of the reason that some of us take pride in our low-tech solutions is because we can achieve results above and beyond that of others even if we don't have any resources. I'm reminded how when Richard Petty crashed a stock car in the sixties during a big race; the team got the car back into running shape and aligned it with string to compare the geometry and got him back into the race, which he won. No fancy computer alignment or specialized tools, some mechanics hand tools and knowledge got them the solution.
It's great to use fancy tools or to construct a high-end system, but there's something to be said for being able to make it work without anything more than a brain and a few applied steps.
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“Mechanical engineers, it’s not a required class for them,” says bioengineering major Jordan DeGraaf. “There are no mechanical engineers who take this class. They just run away.”
This class is a ME for Non ME's. Everything in this project/class is what is the core of what ME is. Fluid Flow, Heat Transfer, Sensors, Controls, Materials, etc. I'm guessing the reason there are no ME's in it is because they are taking the real ME classes.
This is similar to when I was in school for ME but I had to take one EE class for non EE majors. There were no EE's in there not because it was hard but because it was easy.
I love Jesus, except for his foreign policy.
So, as far as the old-school pitmasters go, look at it like this:
Let's say someone wanted to go through engineering school using software that would do all kinds of mathematical equations for them, without them having to learn the underlying math and other discrete skills that the software automates for them. You'd frown upon that, right?
That's kind of how the old-school pitmasters look at rigs like this. It has a purpose, and it has value...but you won't get any respect for using one.
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There are plenty of pit masters using PID-controlled hopper-fed pit smokers. They've been on the market for years. The smoker looks great in comparison to neanderthals holding meat over fire on sticks, but it's not groundbreaking technology now. The shape may be nice, but they don't address usable cooking area, sturdiness, and many other factors that make a good smoker.
My Rec Tec Grill has that, and it does a great job. I love to mix cherry and mesquite to do my slow-smoked brisket (12-14 hours at 200 deg F).
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That's it? Seriously? Rather depressing...
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Hilarious. I've seen'em. They get hurt all the time. They get burnt. They cut themselves while trying to eat. They stuff hot stuff in their mouths and then scream. They drink beer by the gallons and then they get violently sick and throw up all over the place. I have seen one flailing about like a spazz and fall upon a lighted barbecue. He turned into a human torch. So funny. Nerds have no business doing Real People stuff.
"The Shit Has Hit the Fan"
Whoever's in charge of this guy, please lower his dose of Kool-Aid.
Thank you.
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It interrupts their hacking sessions....
putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
I eat Tofurky on the 4th of July you insensitive clod!
Alton Brown is King Geek Chef and has a rule about unitaskers, single-purpose devices: don't buy them. Turn this into a unit than can also BBQ lamb and cold smoke fish and cheese, please.
I have a bbq Stoker automatic temp control formy smoker. There are like 5 popular atc (automatic temp control) products and tons of homebrew options. Taking the tech beyond that serves no purpose.
For your grilling pleasure, here's an entry for the Biggest BBQ Grill
... complete with super-cool looking Griller! ;-)
Hulk SMASH Celiac Disease
Smoke plus meat not hard. Og do great!
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
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How?
I'll tell you.
They don't.
Never have.
Never will.
So what these engineers created is the world's most inefficient, largest carbon footprint even before its first cook BBQ.
I mean, all that tech in the BBQ, brain power and setup is a waste of energy.
Throw it into a cast iron BBQ, set the fuel amount, set the airflow, then cook and relax--will be within temps for what? 8hrs or so? This BBQ is overkill for precision, but a waste of energy.
It take a lot more energy to be precise. It take little energy to be accurate. Food doesn't need to be precise. Easy lesson in using the right tool for the application...
This is much like a commercial meat smoker. They have all of these features. They're completely automated. It's how we're makin' bacon in the modern day.
Who builds something like that and then puts a brisket in it?
If I put that much energy into making a grill... I'd put a better piece of meat into it.
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I have a WSM (weber smokey mountain) and I can buy several different solutions that use PID controllers to hold it at an exact set point. Its actually pretty trivial to design / build by a single individual.. You certainly don't need a team of people to accomplish this..
Let's say someone wanted to go through engineering school using software that would do all kinds of mathematical equations for them, without them having to learn the underlying math and other discrete skills that the software automates for them. You'd frown upon that, right?
If they want to work as an engineer, sure. But if they just are a tinkerer or someone trying to get some stuff done, I don't really care unless safety is involved. I am an engineer and I run a company that makes wire harnesses. A LOT of the products we make were not designed by people with a background in electrical engineering. And that doesn't matter and I don't look down my nose at them for it. As long as what they do works it doesn't matter. If someone can play music beautifully I don't care if they can't read sheet music.
That's kind of how the old-school pitmasters look at rigs like this. It has a purpose, and it has value...but you won't get any respect for using one.
Whether that matters or not depends on how much you care about the opinion of "old-school pitmasters". Personally I don't really care much. I have no ambition to do what they do or do it the way that they do it. I don't compete in BBQ competitions and I don't have anyone to satisfy but myself and my family and friends. I don't own a restaurant either. So if someone wants to use a device to get good results without spending half their life learning esoteric BBQ techniques, who am I to care how they do it?
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BBQ != Smoked
Smoked != BBQ
A smoked meat can be barbecued but they are not interchangeable terms.
Alton Brown is King Geek Chef and has a rule about unitaskers, single-purpose devices: don't buy them.
While I'm as big a fan of Alton as anyone around here, I'll decide for myself what tools to buy thanks. There is nothing wrong with buying a unitasking device provided it meets a couple of conditions. 1) You actually will use it a meaningful amount and 2) It saves time or results in a better product. There is a lot to be said for having the right tool for the job. Sometimes specialty tools exist for very good reasons.
This was built years ago. It's called the Ugly Drum Smoker. Guys have been putting PID controllers and fans on them for years.
This is nothing new...........
Please fuck off.
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The MIT nerds are just ignorantly stereotyping BBQ chefs. You'd figure that they of all people would be sensitive about looking down on others, but I guess not. BBQ chefs aren't morons who use old oil barrels for pits (they're not food grade and will make your food taste like shit). If they do reuse an old barrel, it's one that has held food like olives, and it is reused because it's cheaper and better than buying a brand new one. Seriously, duh.
Just check all this out. Science, science, science. It's all over BBQ these days. All the wisdom of the elders has been tested, trialed, and the old myths like "salt gets into meat by osmosis" and "pink chicken is not safe" have been busted and thoroughly debunked. Just check out the following SCIENCE:
The Thermodynamics of Cooking
What You Need to Know About Wood, Smoke, and Combustion.
The Maillard Reaction And Caramelization
The Science of Wet Brines
Basic Meat Science
Why We Don't Need Grill Marks, and Why You Should Flip Often
And there are about a kajillion more articles like this on this one site. There are many, many more sites all across the internet. All of them are full of science. MIT isn't breaking new ground here, as much as they'd like to think so. Up to and including computer-controlled cookers that turn out perfect meat every time.
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Please fuck off.
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Of course you are. And I am Santa Claus.
Please fuck off.
-- a US veteran
Of course you are. And I am Santa Claus.
You sound more sinister than that. You're Death, right? I'd know that scythe anywhere.
Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
As someone who has a bazillion different grills and smokers. I'm pretty sure these 'students' don't know their (pork) butt, from a hole in the ground. Science doesn't make great flavor, expertise does (otherwise we'd have robots cooking gourmet meals by now...those things can't even run the local mcdonalds, forget cooking quality brisket. Also love the nerds on slashdot claiming to know about quality bbq. How many people here know without looking what animal or what part of said animal the brisket comes from?) P.S. I've been a computer nerd since I was old enough to read or write. My day job is a software engineer. My hobby is creating awesome food.
was one in Berkely at an industrial kiln for scientific equipment. They made chemistry beakers and the like, all to precise standards, using multiple kilns.
Somebody got the bright idea many years ago to roast pigs and slabs of beef in these things. What would normally take hours to cook was done in one or two hours, and I have never had a better pig. It was delicious.
I just hope I didn't get asbestos poisoning.
where else?
Of course you are. And I am Santa Claus.
You sound more sinister than that. You're Death, right? I'd know that scythe anywhere.
Turn in your Pratchett Nerd Card. Death only speaks in ALL CAPS.
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Just to name a few:
1. The water pan is there to keep the brisket moist, which not only helps keep the meat from drying out, which also aids in smoke penetration (which is where the flavor comes from). It's not there to catch drippings. In the case of an egg smoker, it's also there to reduce the impact of different burns.
2. Offset smokers seem to be preferred by most "pitmasters"; direct heat really means you're grilling, not smoking, and that means you're mostly cooking over coals, rather than producing consistent smoke with an open-flame fire for the duration of the burn, and that means you're not getting enough flavor.
3. The "fuel" - given rather short shrift here - is one of the more important parts of bbq, and very hard to automate. Green wood, seasoned, large chunks or small, each has an impact on the immediate heat, the curve that the heat follows as it burns, and of course, the flavor via the smoke.
4. 220 lbs of brisket is decent, but good brisket places do 2000 lbs a day. If you're looking for something of quality instead of, well, acceptable, you're going to need to spend more time experimenting to figure out how to make a good brisket.
5. In order to have a chance to regulate the temperature well - and not keep cycling through blasts of heat and cooling - they'll need multiple temp probes, and an awareness of the outside temp and humidity as well, since ceramic insulation or no, the external environment will play a huge factor.
6. If the flat - the lean part of the brisket - is falling apart when you pick it up, the brisket has been overcooked. It means the point is going to have the consistency of pudding - or it's been destroyed entirely and is completely dry. It's harder to avoid this in a direct-heat smoker rather than an offset.
It should probably look like this. I remember seeing that shot in Franklin's book, Franklin Barbecue: A Meat Smoking Manifesto ... which yes, sounds pretentious, but since he's lauded as the best BBQer in texas several times over, and that book is #1 in BBQ & Grilling books on Amazon, maybe he's allowed to be a bit pretentious. Go get that book if you're at all interested. Apparently fact checked by Harold McGee.
There's more things I could pick apart too. I know, I'm sounding like a BBQ snob, but the fact is that I'm not very good at cooking it, and I haven't had a lot of experience. However, like any geek, I did my research. I read around. I checked things up on the internet. I talked to cooks. I volunteered at some cookoffs. I think I have just barely enough experience to recognize when someone else is doing it poorly. Anyone who's done this at all isn't going to be very worried about this invention, since, well, the parts that you can automate are the parts that are least likely to affect whether your brisket is going to taste good. You may as well have just stuck it in an oven with a few blocks of aromatic wood in a water pan underneath at 275 for an hour and a half per lb.
My only question is: "When will this product become available to us the masses?"
In insensitive clod Russia, Fourth of July Tofurkey eats you?
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
While the backyard pitmaster could assemble a similiar system from component parts (a ceramic grill like the Egg along with some aftermarket accessories), an integrated turnkey system is moderately novel.
That's because that's the satirical Discworld version of Death. The real-world figure employs different typographical conventions. Particularly when he's disguised as Santa Claus.
Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'