Software Devs Leaving Greece For Good, Finance Minister Resigns

New submitter TheHawke writes with this story from ZDNet about the exodus of software developers from Greece. "In the last three years, almost 80 percent of my friends, mostly developers, left Greece," software developer Panagiotis Kefalidis told ZDNet. "When I left for North America, my mother was not happy, but... it is what it is." It's not just the software developers quitting either. The Greek Finance Minister Yanis Varoufakis also resigned. A portion of his resignation announcement reads: "Soon after the announcement of the referendum results, I was made aware of a certain preference by some Eurogroup participants, and assorted ‘partners’, for my ‘absence’ from its meetings; an idea that the Prime Minister judged to be potentially helpful to him in reaching an agreement. For this reason I am leaving the Ministry of Finance today."

Comments

Re:Democracy

[gstoddart]

From what I can tell, nobody knows WTF it means.

The Greek government thinks that the will of the people now means they have more leverage to negotiate.

The problem is they're asking for handouts and free money from other governments who have to explain to their citizens Greek pensions are being funded by everybody else.

Greece is essentially bankrupt, and wants more money. So either every other EU government is going to throw even more taxpayer money into the pit which is Greece's economy, or they're going to tell Greece to piss up a rope.

This sounds like someone having their house foreclosed demanding the banks forgive their debt, lower their interest rate, and give them more money to pay bills.

In other words, it sounds like the Greek government is living in a fantasy where everybody else pays for their society.

And I'm not sure that's gonna happen.

Re: It's like Venezuela but without all the gun cr

[Curunir_wolf]

Even if 100% of their past debts were written off, current tax receipts are insufficient to meet current expenditure.

That situation is exactly the same in the US (except the gap is about $500 billion right now, more than the entire Greek debt). The only reason that the US keeps going is that they control the lender (the Federal Reserve). At least they think they do.

Re:Outside help

[nikosdion]

I'm tired of listening to this. Let me tell you what happens when you're 100% legal and declare everything up to the last penny you get as a software developer. In 2012 I had 100,000 Euros income paid 86,000 Euros spent on taxes (income tax with surprisingly different brackets than last year, "temporary" property tax, "temporary special contribution" 4% on the total turnover, mandatory social security, 55% of your current income tax as downpayment for next year). The year before I made 74,000 Euros and paid "only" 50,000 or thereabouts. In return I got: no schools, no roads, no pension, more taxes, more family members depending on me to live. The more you work the less you make (unless you have an ever-shrinking business). Crazy? That's the Greek tax brackets for you.

Meanwhile: I have to pay for my own hospital plan because in case I get sick I have to notify the public insurance carrier 15 days in advance of emergency surgery (no kidding!) or 3-4 months before booking an appointment with a doctor. I have to get an additional, expensive pension plan on top of the 350 Euros per month I am currently paying as mandatory social security because there will be no money when I'm 67 years old or have worked 40+ years to get the minimum pension of 700 Euros (nominal; actual payment after taxes and mandatory social security is around 480 Euros). I also need to set aside money to get the kids I'm planning on having to a private school because there are no teachers (not even substitutes) half of the time in the public schools.

If you are wondering why people tax evade you have to first ask the questions: 1. how much does the state take in taxes and 2. what does the state offer for the money it takes from its citizens? If the answers are "most of your money" and "not that much at all" respectively it doesn't take a genius to see why you get an endemic tax evasion for free.

Anyway. After three years of battling the system I gave up and moved away. My last tax filing in Greece was 2014 for my income in 2013. I am owed a 13,000 Euro tax return since August 10th, 2014. Of course it's NOT credited. And we're talking about money I have paid as a tax downpayment to the state since August 2013. They hold my money hostage for 2 years and they won't give it to me. Also, don't make the mistake of asking whether there's an interest rate for those two years. Don't be silly. There's not! Adding insult to injury I'm still a Greek tax citizen which means I get to pay taxes for the dividends I'm paid from my company abroad. Don't be ridiculous, of course they are NOT offset by the money the Greek state owes me! I have so far paid another 40+ thousand Euro taxes in these two years where the Greek state owes me the 13,000 Euro tax return.

I understand all this sounds alien to you. Why so much taxation, why no services in return, why the state isn't punctual in paying back. Beats me, brothers and sisters. I have concluded that one must be outright insane to try and do business if they're born in Greece.