UK May Send More People Into Space

sciencehabit writes: A few months ahead of the first visit by a U.K. astronaut to the International Space Station (ISS), the U.K. Space Agency has published its first strategy on human spaceflight, promising greater involvement in crewed missions and perhaps even participation in a mission out into the solar system. Following a public consultation and lengthy discussions across government, the new strategy, published yesterday, concludes that continued involvement in the ISS and other programs is the best way to involve U.K. scientists and industry in human spaceflight. The document says the government will consider bilateral projects with other space agencies but fears always being the junior partner since the United Kingdom has no launchers or space stations. It does not think that the commercial launch industry is sufficiently mature for the United Kingdom to buy services commercially. The report also states: 'The Agency will also consider its role in human exploration missions beyond Earth orbit, especially where this complements science and technology goals for robotic exploration.'

Comments

Hitchhikers

[argee]

They are saying "We have some people interested in going up. How about a ride?"

They have no launch capability. Basically no money to realistically contribute, yet
they want to send their guys up? Gimme a break. Limey freeloaders is what they
are. Cheeky bastards! ;-)

Re:Hitchhikers

[sconeu]

Don't knock it, it worked for Arthur Dent.

If I were drinking coffee

[weilawei]

I would nearly have lost my coffee via my nasal passages. Are the Brits really economically, technically, and industrially capable of doing this anymore? Sure, they have some large aerospace companies, but at a glance, they seem to be focused mostly on conventional passenger flight.

Sometimes I wonder if we (USA) still are. Then, I'm reminded that we have SpaceX. They're at least a small glimmer of hope.

Of course, I'm probably just out of touch with this planet.

Re:If I were drinking coffee

[ArchieBunker]

if they design rockets the same way they design cars then the rocket will need a drip pan to catch the oil leaks.

Re:If I were drinking coffee

[Spy Handler]

Lucas electrical system.

In rockets.

Re: If I were drinking coffee

[cyber-vandal]

And Rolls Royce who make plane engines.

Re:If I were drinking coffee

[maroberts]

The UK:

Manufacture Jaguar, Rolls Royce, Minis (BMW), Land/Range Rover, Aston Martin, Lotus etc
Produced many of the Formula 1 racing cars and their components
has a good chance of pushing the Land Speed Record even further over the next few years (Thrust SSC => Bloodhound SSC)
has BAE, which may have gone American but still has a significant presence here
has Airbus group, which manufactures satellites and other space related stuff.

Re:If I were drinking coffee

[xaxa]

"The UK's Space industry has an annual turnover of around £9billion, employs over 28,000 people and achieves an average annual growth rate of 7.5%."

According to https://www.adsgroup.org.uk/pa...

Re:If I were drinking coffee

[AmiMoJo]

The UK is the only country that had the capability of putting things in orbit and then gave it up.

Re:If I were drinking coffee

[AmiMoJo]

Jaguar is Indian.
Rolls Royce cars are German, engines are British but looking like they will go bankrupt again.
Minis are German.
Land/Range Rover and Indian.
Aston Martin is mostly British.
BAE is American.
Airbus is French.

You might as well claim that Nissan is British. They build cars here, and there is a British subsidiary of the parent company.

Re:If I were drinking coffee

[Jamu]

Some of us seem to think we are: Skylon.

Re:If I were drinking coffee

[Smauler]

Thu UK is still the 5th (or 6th, France is close) largest economy in the world, behind the US, China, Japan and Germany. It's about 1/6 of the US.

Re:If I were drinking coffee

[cheesybagel]

The UK Space Industry mostly works on satellites. Surrey Satellite Technology for example.

The UK used to have a launcher (Black Knight) before the 1970s when they started gutting the military-industrial complex.

Re:If I were drinking coffee

[cheesybagel]

Sorry its Black Arrow. Black Knight was a test rocket.

Re:If I were drinking coffee

[maroberts]

Yes, but we were talking manufacturing/ design capability and presence of the engineering skills to get us there, not who owns it

Re:If I were drinking coffee

[maroberts]

We might even have the Skylon spaceplane to send people up if everything goes to plan, then you can stuff Proton and SpaceX

C'mon USA...

[dzamie]

First to the moon, but the public no longer seems to care about the Final Frontier. Somewhat of a shame...

TARDIS?

[Nethead]

I thought The Doctor grabbing cute young women and taking them away was UK's space program.

Re: TARDIS?

[dzamie]

Be fair... He occasionally brought along strapping young men, too.

Re:TARDIS?

[ArcadeMan]

And when they're not young and cute, they sure have a mind and a temper of their own.

Re:TARDIS?

[Nethead]

Hey! I'm old enough to think that Donna was young and cute.

Skylon?

[Zobeid]

No mention of Skylon? It's the one thing they've got in the works that could -- if funded -- propel the UK to the forefront of space development.

Re:Skylon?

[cheesybagel]

Too far fetched.

what about greece?

[ganjadude]

im all for space travel, heck i wanted to be an astronaut as a kid (who didnt?) i even went to space camp

but with whats going on in the EU wouldnt it make more sense to fix things at home????

Re:what about greece?

[drinkypoo]

but with whats going on in the EU wouldnt it make more sense to fix things at home????

They'll fix 'em good, don't you worry.

Re:what about greece?

[dunkelfalke]

Greece isn't fixable.
Here's why:
http://www.grreporter.info/en/...
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-...
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB...
http://www.themalaysianinsider...
http://panteres.com/2015/05/07...

Re:what about greece?

[monkeyxpress]

Socialism only works for people, while people are willing to work for socialism.

On the other hand capitalism is eating the earth. So perhaps space is the answer after all.

Re:what about greece?

[dunkelfalke]

What Greece has is not socialism, it is kleptocracy.

Re:what about greece?

[dunkelfalke]

Elementary, my dear Watson. Look at Greece GDP per capita, their public debt as their GDP percentage, their unemployment rates and compare them to any other European country which has or had a social democrat government. Then you'll see the difference.

Re:what about greece?

[cheesybagel]

Like what Spain? Not much better.

Re:what about greece?

[dunkelfalke]

Spain had a real estate bubble, but otherwise the country is much more solid than Greece and while somewhat corrupt, it is not nearly a kleptocracy. In 2008 the GDP per capita of Spain and Greece were comparable. After the crash Spain has implemented austerity measures and apparently they were successful - Spain is on the way to recovery and nowadays their GDP per capita is almost twice of Greece. It helps that Spain actually has an economy. Greece only exports olive oil and tax evaders.

Re:what about greece?

[cheesybagel]

Same unemployment issues as Greece. Also Spain had to do less "austerity measures" than Greece. That's why they fared better.

Re:what about greece?

[dunkelfalke]

Greece hasn't really implemented the austerity measures they were asked to implement, that is why they fared worse. And that is why they don't get more money now. And if 20% of Greek workforce wouldn't work for the government, their unemployment would have been much, much larger.

Re:what about greece?

[cheesybagel]

hasn't really implemented the austerity measures they were asked to implement

Bullshit. Read Krugman. Greece managed to increase their primary budget surplus the most of all Eurozone countries in the period. What you are saying it what the Troika has been spouting. It's called the "No True Scotsman Fallacy".

Other countries, including Germany, have much higher fractions of the population working for the state. Plus a large amount of those people work in the military in Greece. They actually less people in healthcare, etc, than the average in the EU.

Re:what about greece?

[dunkelfalke]

Bullshit yourself.
They have increased their primary budget surplus purely due to borrowed money. It was a one time thing and won't happen again if they get no further funds from EU. Their shipowners still pay no taxes - read it up, it is even in Greek constitution. Neither do the land owners, business owners and so on. They have promised a lot and implemented bugger all.

Germany has the same number of civil servants, but 7 times the population. And military doesn't count as civil servants because they are military, not civil. Greek bureaucracy is the largest and most inefficient in Europe.

And your "read Krugman" is called "appeal to authority fallacy" by the way.

Re:what about greece?

[cheesybagel]

They have increased their primary budget surplus purely due to borrowed money.

Do you even know what a primary budget surplus is? It means they can pay all running expenses with the tax income.

You are falling into the No True Scotsman Fallacy the EU leaders have been pushing. Regardless of how well Greece did at meeting their dictates for them, if there is a problem, it is always because Greece did not follow orders. Look at this chart Krugman made:
http://interactive.guim.co.uk/...

I look it from this article:
http://www.theguardian.com/bus...

Then keep telling me austerity is sound economy policy. There is a trend in that chart and it doesn't matter which country you are looking at. Austerity is economic cannibalism. That is what it is.

And your comment about number of civil servants is a LIE. Germany has more civil servants per capita than Greece. You don't know WTF you what you are talking about:
http://www.dgaep.gov.pt/upload...

Read the chart at the bottom of page 9. And that chart was produced before Greece started firing public servants because of the Troika demands. Germany has done no such thing.

As usual you drone off LIES you hear elsewhere and never bothered checking the facts yourself.

Long shot

[Dereck1701]

Who knows, maybe they'll be able to get Skylon up and flying. If that happens they'll be giving rides to the rest of the space-fairing nations. A long shot I know, but beyond SpaceX it is the only fully reusable orbital launch system in some form of active development that has some physical hardware built and tested and no fancy new "10 years out" technological requirements.

Re:Long shot

[monkeyxpress]

Yes Skylon is quite exciting, but really still very far away from anything that can fly into orbit. The company seems to be focusing on addressing the unknowns in the engine technology, not even getting a complete engine going at this stage. If they get to the point where a complete engine looks viable I imagine as established aerospace company like Airbus or Boeing will take over from there.

UK is very good at early stage tech, but has always struggled with scaling up. The engineering sector never really recovered from the destruction of the Thatcher era. Engineers are still seen as a hang over from the victorian age, so the best go into finance or leave the country. Sad for a country that produces such good ones.

Re:Long shot

[cjameshuff]

If they get Skylon up and flying, they'll have a horrendously complex, expensive, and fragile launch vehicle which is utterly unscalable and inflexible in the range of orbits it can target. More likely, it'll never get up and flying, but suffer the fate of every other super duper spaceplane project, turning into nothing but a big money sink.

The horizontal takeoff and "looks like a plane" aspect is cargo cult engineering based on what looks cool in sci-fi and what works for aircraft performing an entirely different task. Air breathing buys you next to nothing in the end, and costs a great deal. Liquid hydrogen is a pain to use, it's hazardous and it's awkwardly low-density. Carrying extra liquid hydrogen for cooling and a bunch of extra air-breathing equipment and aerodynamic structures in order to use atmospheric oxygen diluted 4:1 with nitrogen which must be dragged up to the speed of the vehicle before being used, all to avoid carrying a bit of liquid oxygen, is not the path to cheap spaceflight.

You can make a reusable vehicle without using exotic propellants, without carrying wings and landing gear to orbit, without any of the Skylon's other magic technologies. SpaceX is a lot closer to doing this than Skylon is to even having a working engine.

Re:Long shot

[dave420]

The experts seem to disagree with you, and they have the evidence on their side.

Re:Long shot

[cheesybagel]

The military-industrial complex started being destroyed in the 1970s way before Thatcher. She just finished it up and then proceeded to destroy the civilian industrial complex as well.

Re:Long shot

[Dereck1701]

I may be reading from some overly cheerful sources but from what I understand the air cooler system was the only real technological hurdle needed to make the SABRE engine viable and it's been tested and proven. No doubt a full prototype engine will need to be built and flown to confirm the engines performance characteristics and viability but beyond that it appears to be "simple" aircraft design/development. Expensive no doubt, but not all that different from developing an advanced airliner which are usually in the $10-15 Billion range.

UK

[Greyfox]

Will not be going to space today.

Re:UK

[hcs_$reboot]

Would they send all Brits into space? Or is it a wild dream...

Most scientists are against manned spaceflight

[thinkwaitfast]

To date, more than 20 scientific organizations worldwide have come out against the space station and are recommending the funds be used for more important unmanned missions.

Do they need space suits?

[bmo]

Can we please launch Teresa May into the Sun?

David Cameron would be my second choice.

--
BMO

Re:Do they need space suits?

[AmiMoJo]

It would certainly save a lot of money. No need for a rocket, an old oil barrel and some TNT should do the trick. Maybe put a rabid ferret in there too, to see how they do in zero gravity. For science.

Re:Do they need space suits?

[stoatwblr]

How about standing them on a nuclear propelled manhole cover?

Re: Lunar penal colony?

[someone1234]

Make it a lunar penal colony for SJWs then.

Ternary sector

[Errol backfiring]

Inspired by Douglas Adams, there will be a space program to send everyone from the UK into space. In three space craft. We send the ternary sector first...

Re:Ternary sector

[ArcadeMan]

I vote to update Mr. Adams' space program and build four space crafts. The fourth one, to be launched first, will include every religious person.

Re:Lunar penal colony?

[monkeyxpress]

It worked for Australia!

Until you sent Tony Abott.

Re:Space whale

[ArcadeMan]

Are you my mommy?