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Robot Performs Prostate Surgery Inside an MRI

the_newsbeagle writes: Researchers have developed a non-metallic robot with ceramic piezoelectric motors that functions inside an MRI machine, allowing surgeons to perform procedures guided by real-time imaging. It's now being tested in prostate biopsies. Doctors say this system will let them aim their needles more precisely and reduce the number of times they stick them in. The NIH thinks such systems could come in handy for neurosurgery too. Gregory Fischer, a professor of mechanical engineering at WPI whose Automation and Interventional Medicine Robotics Lab led the research says: "You can bring it into any MRI room and have it up and running in an hour. It can locate the target, track the needle, and if it deflects during insertion, it can steer the needle to hit the target. We’re taking baby steps to get the robot into clinical use."

64 comments

  1. Let's get it out of the way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    First post, some crazy rant about the hosts file, moo moo cows, obligatory robotic overlords meme, etc.

    1. Re:Let's get it out of the way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > First post, some crazy rant about the hosts file, moo moo cows, obligatory robotic overlords meme, etc.

      Dude, it's prostate surgery with needles deflecting and being steered (inside said prostate). All that with so many Teslas Elon would have a fit...

      After that, Skynet and Terminators seems like Dora the Explorer to me. Actually you could add the Alien queen in the role of the Fox, too.

    2. Re:Let's get it out of the way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Alien queen seems apropreate, This thing is basically a core sample gun in a robotic dildo. Like that second tiny mouth coming out of the first...

  2. Star Trek by Ryanrule · · Score: 1

    like a motherfucker.

    1. Re:Star Trek by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1
    2. Re:Star Trek by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or the Star Wars ep. 4 medical droid, floaty sphere thingy, with just a needle at the end of it...

  3. weird sense of deja vu by Trepidity · · Score: 4, Funny

    I was just reading about an MRI that performs robot repair inside a prostate, so this headline really tripped me up for a second.

    1. Re:weird sense of deja vu by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      I was just reading about an MRI that performs robot repair inside a prostate, so this headline really tripped me up for a second.

      Why would you have a robot that needs repair way up in there?

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    2. Re:weird sense of deja vu by drinkypoo · · Score: 4, Funny

      Why would you have a robot that needs repair way up in there?

      What happens when the prostate repair robot breaks down? Do you want to crawl up there and fix it?

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    3. Re:weird sense of deja vu by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      What happens when the prostate repair robot breaks down? Do you want to crawl up there and fix it?

      Help me find my keys and we can drive out.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    4. Re:weird sense of deja vu by FranTaylor · · Score: 2

      Why would you have a robot that needs repair way up in there?

      What happens when the prostate repair robot breaks down? Do you want to crawl up there and fix it?

      Why don't you ask Seattle? They are currently getting butt-fucked by a broken down tunneling robot.

    5. Re: weird sense of deja vu by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I just talked to your dad, he filled me in. Literally.

    6. Re: weird sense of deja vu by FranTaylor · · Score: 1

      he's been dead for 40 years, I hope you enjoyed it

    7. Re:weird sense of deja vu by zentigger · · Score: 1

      I think it's a Soviet thing.

      --

      the above is my personal opinion and does not necessarily reflect that of the little voices in my head

    8. Re:weird sense of deja vu by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      I think it's a Soviet thing.

      In Soviet Russia, prostate fixes you.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
  4. I did not know MRIs had prostates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    AI is real. Woz is right to fear them!

    1. Re:I did not know MRIs had prostates by mark-t · · Score: 1

      That's how I read the headline as well... not sure if it's missing a comma or just needs to be rephrased.

    2. Re:I did not know MRIs had prostates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or neither, and you just read it incorrectly.

  5. Where? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The first thing I thought of after seeing that stirrup contraption: You are going to put that where?

  6. The first what? by tchdab1 · · Score: 1

    Somebody did not fully explain this situation to the patient.

    I mean, I wouldn't ever be the first guy verifying the test procedures for something so, um, delicate.

    1. Re:The first what? by delusional_wombat · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but imagine all the freaky bastards that are now standing in line!

    2. Re:The first what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know, reading the summary... combine "prostate surgery" with phrases like "reduce the number of times they stick it in" and "deflect during insertion" and I'm pretty sure plenty of guys are willing to take that risk...

    3. Re:The first what? by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      *shudder* Wow, that whole Rule #34 thing just won't go away, will it?

      Bad internets! Bad bad internets.

      Dirty, naughty internets. There must be punishments. A spanking, I think.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    4. Re:The first what? by delusional_wombat · · Score: 1

      Wow, I hadn't really thought it through that far. I was just thinking of trying to find an alternate way of saying - "Whatever rolls your socks up and down!" And now I know about rule #34. What I am really afraid of is that there will be another human centipede sequel. Just when it couldn't get any worse!

  7. combines two of my... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    nightmares! - being penetrated in a claustrophobic setting. I'll be the last man on earth for this procedure.

    1. Re:combines two of my... by FranTaylor · · Score: 1

      so you would prefer an agonizing slow death from cancer?

    2. Re:combines two of my... by CaptQuark · · Score: 4, Informative

      Some prostrate cancers are so slow growing and happen so late in life, the recommended treatment option is... nothing. Monitor the situation and realize it may take more years then you have left before it becomes a problem. Also, the side effects of treatment might be more debilitating than the cancer itself. http://www.cancer.org/cancer/p...

      ~~

    3. Re:combines two of my... by dcw3 · · Score: 1

      Mod parent up.

      My dad had to deal with this in his early 70s, and was very painfully treated, successfully. Unfortunately, he passed from another form of cancer two years later. Recommended reading here:
      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pm...

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    4. Re:combines two of my... by RandCraw · · Score: 1

      Much is left unsaid when making this claim. If your cancer is found before age 65, or if the cancer is not localized, you absolutely will want to treat. The "wait and see" approach applies mostly to men who are closer to 80 than 65.

      Yes, early prostate cancer (e.g. Gleason 3) does advance slowly relative to other cancers. But we're *not* talking about 10 years here. If you hope to live more than perhaps another 5 years after diagnosis, you definitely will need to address the cancer somehow (surgery, radiation, or hormones).

      IMHO, watchful waiting is overrated unless you're in late stage retirement. And PSA screening is badly underrated.

    5. Re:combines two of my... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I had heard this too. Just want to add my personal experience as a counter-example.

      My father was diagnosed with prostate cancer at approx. 80-85 years old (don't remember exactly when). Successfully treated and no serious side-effects.

      Best guess is that treatment practices have improved substantially in recent years. I'd still agree it's a viable option in many cases to not treat and just monitor. At that age I believe the statistics are that something like 50% of all men have prostate cancer (the numbers are really high).

      As always, assess medically and choose the best course of action for the patient.

  8. Hackers lickin' their chops by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    This can go wrong is soooo many ways...

    1. Re:Hackers lickin' their chops by FranTaylor · · Score: 1

      leaving the cancer to grow doesn't exactly have a good outcome, either

  9. First Use? by BiggerIsBetter · · Score: 5, Funny

    Bunch of geniuses invent robotic surgical equipment that can operate in an intense magnetic field.

    What's the first thing they want to do with it?

    "Stick it up his arse!"

    --
    Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
    1. Re:First Use? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Stick it up his arse!"

      I'm sure this part of the summary is just coincidental:

      reduce the number of times they stick them in.

    2. Re:First Use? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The technology use is entirely understandable!

      The surgical robots were invented by aliens, anal probing aliens. Anal obsessive aliens, if you must know.

      The aliens crashed and the technology was replicated at Area 51. The technology was then distributed to hospitals but, because it has not been fully deciphered, it has to be used as it was constructed. By the aliens.

      Bingo bango bongo, the surgical robot goes up the butt. It's the only way!

  10. We all know by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...what the robot was really inside.

  11. Messy IEEE article by RandCraw · · Score: 5, Informative

    The original IEEE story is about the use of MRI when doing prostate cancer biopsies, not prostate cancer surgery, which is almost always the radical removal of the prostate -- something that would not be aided appreciably by MRI. (The visual field is already outstandingly clearly illuminated during a DaVinci robotic procedure. Seeing *within* the prostate would be unnecessary during removal.) Likewise, prostate surgeries for BPH (enlarged gland) won't warrant MR either, since the procedure is already well served by a simple camera attached to a trochar.

    The article also fails to mention how economically feasible the use of MRI would be for biopsy, given the high cost of MR in general (perhaps 10x more than CT, which is perhaps 5X the cost of ultrasound, which is what's used now). In practice, it's more likely that advances in ultrasound (like doppler) will prove more useful and feasible for biopsy than will MR.

    1. Re:Messy IEEE article by FranTaylor · · Score: 2, Informative

      The article also fails to mention how economically feasible the use of MRI would be for biopsy, given the high cost of MR in general

      An MRI costs $280 in France, $1080 in the USA. The CURRENT prostate biopsy procedure costs well over $2000 in the USA. Guess what? Google is your friend.

    2. Re:Messy IEEE article by peragrin · · Score: 2

      That's because in american health care system we have to 10 CEO's before the patient is allowed to the see the doctor first.

      In france they lowered it to just 3 ceo's

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    3. Re:Messy IEEE article by xanthines-R-yummy · · Score: 1

      Yeah, the cost of prostate biopsies should go down somewhat. As a specialty, Pathology has gotten whacked in recent years on reimbursement rates. The current rule for reimbursements on prostate biopsies was finalized in Jan for 2015. I posted a link, but you may need to agree to TOS, etc. If so, look up code G0416 which is for prostate biopsies of any amount. Medical billing is a cryptic and mysterious art and I'm (thankfully?) shielded from that, but as near as I can tell it's going to cost somewhere between $200-$500, plus whatever the surgeon charges (code 55700?), etc.

      http://www.cms.gov/apps/physic...

    4. Re:Messy IEEE article by electrosoccertux · · Score: 1

      That's because in american health care system we have to 10 CEO's before the patient is allowed to the see the doctor first.

      In france they lowered it to just 3 ceo's

      as opposed to many eastern european countries where Americans and those with cash under the table see the doctor first. Unless you don't want to wake up...

    5. Re:Messy IEEE article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, the key is early detection. If you can identify cancer and also determine it aggressiveness early, it is much more readily treatable. So, a bit more expense up front to find it the fist time ends up with big saving (of life and money) down the road.

      By the way, if you are going to be stuck with needles, would you rather have a bunch almost randomly poking you and maybe missing the cancer, or just one targeted to just the right spot?

    6. Re:Messy IEEE article by godel_56 · · Score: 1

      The article also fails to mention how economically feasible the use of MRI would be for biopsy, given the high cost of MR in general (perhaps 10x more than CT, which is perhaps 5X the cost of ultrasound, which is what's used now). In practice, it's more likely that advances in ultrasound (like doppler) will prove more useful and feasible for biopsy than will MR.

      The extra cost may be worth it if the results are good enough. Here is a radio interview (with transcript) from an Australian doctor using MRIs for prostate exams, claiming fewer false positives resulting in unnecessary procedures, and better diagnosis of real prostate cancers.

  12. I'm surprised the researchers were not aware... by tlambert · · Score: 1

    I'm surprised the researchers were not aware that you can build robots with servos that aren't even in the same room as the "business end" of the robot. Plastic parts don't have to be actuated by locally mounted servos.

    As a bonus, you don't have to build tiny servos, or have them packed together in a tiny volume, which drastically reduces the overall cost of the robot itself, as well as them being a heck of a lot easier to repair (making them even cheaper in terms of lifecycle cost).

    1. Re:I'm surprised the researchers were not aware... by FranTaylor · · Score: 1

      Plastic parts don't have to be actuated by locally mounted servos.

      plastic parts won't do well in the autoclave

    2. Re:I'm surprised the researchers were not aware... by Prune · · Score: 1

      So instead of plastic you use ceramic (glazed so it's non-porous) or some other high temperature dielectric. GP's main point still stands.

      --
      "Politicians and diapers must be changed often, and for the same reason."
    3. Re:I'm surprised the researchers were not aware... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      plastic parts won't do well in the autoclave

      Metal parts won't do well in the MRI.

    4. Re:I'm surprised the researchers were not aware... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you make them single use disposables.

  13. Great, just ready for the hacking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I wonder how secure this is.

    1. Re: Great, just ready for the hacking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, it's secure. Mmmmmm. Ooooh yeah. VERY secure.

  14. What about the conductors? by Prune · · Score: 1

    While removing the ferromagnetic materials in motors solves one problem, how do they deal with the wires/cables for power and control signals? It doesn't matter if the material they're made of is non-ferromagnetic metal or some other conductor, such as conductive ceramic — the conductors by virtue of being conductors will get current induced in them through both (1) moving through the magnetic field as the robot moves, and (2) from the MRI's RF. I did not see in TFA how they address this. Can someone here explain?

    --
    "Politicians and diapers must be changed often, and for the same reason."
    1. Re:What about the conductors? by SuricouRaven · · Score: 2

      I'm just speculating, but if I were designing it the first thing I'd try would be twisted pair wiring. It's highly resistant to magnetic interference because the induction in one wire is perfectly balanced by induction in another - and you only need to get the connections made to piezo elements, which run off a voltage differential. All the sophisticated electronics can sit in a box some distance away.

  15. non-metallic robot by Skapare · · Score: 1

    i bet some terrorists designed it.

    --
    now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
  16. Why? by nospam007 · · Score: 1

    Nice but why do prostate biopsies at all?

    If it's the aggressive cancer version, you're fucked anyway, if not, it doesn't matter since you'll be dead anyway long before it becomes a problem.

    Just make your testament.

    1. Re:Why? by dcw3 · · Score: 1
      --
      Just another day in Paradise
  17. I for one... by mooterSkooter · · Score: 1

    ...welcome out new prostate-probing robotic overlords.

  18. No fun on the receiving end by mnemotronic · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I had one (prostate biopsy) about 10 yrs ago. The doc that ordered it did so because of a single elevated PSA. No robots, no MRI, just a doctor and nurse with an ultrasound machine and a tube up my butt. They moved the tube guided by the ultrasound image. press a button and it shoots a hollow needle through the colon wall into the prostrate. Basically, core drilling into body parts. Hurts like hell. Retrieve the needle with sample, put new needle into machine, lather, rinse, repeat. Blood in my piss and come for a week. Diagnosis was BPH. I cant see how robots and being confined to an MRI will make it any more effective or painless; just more expensive.

    --
    The Russians have won. They have made the world a cesspool of distrust, greed, fear and hate.
    1. Re:No fun on the receiving end by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The MRI can detect the anomolous regions and the robot can minimize the number of core samples needed.
      Cuts down on the number of "Rinse and Repeats" needed.

    2. Re:No fun on the receiving end by Wargames · · Score: 1

      BPH - Benign Prostatic Hyperplasia

      --
      -- Each tock of the Planck clock is a new world and here we are still life. --
  19. Send in the ASSBOTS! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sorry. Couldn't resist.

  20. DO NOT WANT! (?) by Thud457 · · Score: 1

    no no no no No NO NO!

    They got the headline wrong, should read : ROBOT ATTACKS PROSTATE of MAN TRAPPED in MRI with NEEDLES

    I'm sure the younger generation will accept this as a beneficial advancement and not some of the scariest parts of the major motion picture "Prometheus".

    --

    the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

  21. umm... by Charliemopps · · Score: 1

    ...and here I thought I couldn't dread going into an MRI machine any more than I already did...

  22. MRI prostate? by cowdung · · Score: 1

    I didn't realize MRIs had prostates..

    you learn something new every day!