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European Agreement Sets Up Third Greek Bailout

An anonymous reader writes: Euro zone leaders have reached a deal that will attempt to resolve Greece's financial crisis. The deal sets up negotiations for the country's third bailout, and will require the Greek government to give up significant autonomy in financial matters. Experts have estimated that Greece could require almost $100 billion to stabilize once again. While this will be a significant cost to taxpayers in other European countries, the economic repercussions of letting Greece default on its debts would be much greater. "The agreement will call for Greece to raise taxes in some cases, parepension benefits and take various other measures meant to reduce what critics see as too much bureaucracy and too many market protections that keep the Greek economy from operating efficiently. ... Despite the agreement, Greek banks are expected to remain closed this week. The banks are acutely short of cash and Greek depositors may soon find it difficult to withdraw even small sums from ATMs."

8 of 485 comments (clear)

  1. Greeks surrender: no restructuring by l2718 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The most notable point is the that there is no firm agreement to restructure (cut) the debt. I wonder how Tsirpas will sell this to his constituents who just voted a firm "NO" to a deal without restructuring.

    1. Re:Greeks surrender: no restructuring by gweihir · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Basically, the "NO" was a bluff in the hopes that the other side will yet again get soft. The problem is that the Greeks have vastly overplayed their hand. That a big crash was coming to them was visible for a very long time to anybody willing to look at facts. I know several Greeks that left the country 10 years or more ago because they saw no future for that country.

      As it is now, there is almost no sympathy left for what Greece is doing at the moment in the Euro-Zone. Newer eastern members rightfully point out that _they_ had to implement drastic reforms to even be allowed in. Citizens all over the EU are unwilling to pay anymore without vast concessions by Greece. Anybody being friendly or soft on Greece runs a serious risk of losing the next election just because of that.

      In other words, the gloves are coming off now. The main reason is that Greece is completely out of touch with reality.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    2. Re:Greeks surrender: no restructuring by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What was the Greek government thinking? that the EU will just give more money without asking for more responsible measures.

      Yes, because that is basically what is happening. The Greeks will get 100B euros, they will implement a few minor reforms, and the EU will kick the can down the road. Greece will almost certainly need another bailout in a few years. Meanwhile, voters in Italy, Spain, and Portugal, will be asking why they aren't getting a bailout too. And voters in Slovakia, Poland, Estonia, Latvia, etc. will be asking why they are paying higher taxes to bailout Greeks that are on average far richer than they are, and on average retire five years younger.

    3. Re:Greeks surrender: no restructuring by MightyMartian · · Score: 3, Interesting

      There will be no more can kicking. The Troika is now demanding a surrender of Greek fiscal sovereignty. All government legislation going ahead will have to be cleared with the Troika before the Greek parliament votes on it, and previous legislation will have to be amended to be brought into line with the new agreement.

      Greece, for some time to come, will essentially be in "administration". The Germans and other EZ members do not trust Greece anymore, and are not willing to simply allow Greece to come back in a year or two and pry more money from ECB's hands. The long and the short of it is that the Greek government will no longer exercise critical sovereign powers.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  2. Re:Sunk cost fallacy by Tokolosh · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Yes, there is no point in sending a debtor to prison. And there is no point in lending him any more money, now that he has proven to be a deadbeat.

    --
    Prove anything by multiplying Huge Number times Tiny Number
  3. Greece is like your brother-in-law by Virtucon · · Score: 2, Interesting

    That brother-in-law that keeps borrowing money, then borrows some more; never paying it back. Why? because they can't generate enough revenue to cover their spending. Finally when they can't seem to manage their finances at all and throw a big party, they still want more. Fiat currency arguments aside, it's probably better to let Greece figure this out on their own, with their own currency because the rest of the EU would be throwing good money after bad. Unfortunately the rest of the EU won't let that happen just yet because Italy and Spain would probably be next; it would give the UK further argument to pull out and that would mean serious trouble for the Eurozone.

    --
    Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
  4. Re:Sunk cost fallacy by sribe · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The money that was loaned to Greece has been lost. The whole crisis is about everyone involved being unwilling to accept this reality and thinking that the money will somehow magically come back once the Greeks have been punished sufficiently.

    Remarkable the extent to which economists agree with you and to which politicians disagree. Gee, I wonder who's right?

    Most notably, in the last bailout plan, the IMF called for growth in the Greek GDP to top 4% within a few years, and that's what would allow them to pay back the debt. So, in a very short time, while constrained by harsh austerity measures and with no ability to use govt funds to stimulate any job growth, Greece was supposed to leap from the bottom of the EU to the top in terms of growth. Yeah, right, pure fantasy--devised to soothe the lenders that somehow, some way, their investments in Greek loans are not a lost cause and that they will soon profit from them, if only Greece will get its act together and mumble mumble mumble something.

    The underpants gnomes had a better business plan ;-)

  5. Credibility is key by l2718 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Indeed, whether Syriza would implement the reforms is the most important question. Varoufakis was very vocal about the need for the reforms, but he has been forced out (by the EU !). The left-left wing of Syriza is opposed. It's not clear what the majority would do, and like you I would have preferred to see some reforms passed in February and March while the negotiations were ongoing.

    However, some of the reforms Germany is asking for (higher taxes, pension cuts) cause me to doubt their bona fides here. The main problem is taxes in Greece is non-payment and the informal economy. Raising taxes is likely to exacerbate this problem by increasing the motivation to evade the higher taxes. Lowering taxes and simplifying the tax system is far more likely to raise more revenue.

    Similarly, the main problem with government pensions is early retirement. The solution should therefore be to raise the retirement age for those currently working, which in the long term resolve the problems without creating short-term pain. The German solution (cut pensions now) means asking current pensioners who have no prospect of other sources of income and cannot choose to go back to the jobs they retired from to help repay the national debt.