Ask Slashdot: If Public Transport Was Free, Would You Leave Your Car At Home?

dkatana writes: The Estonian capital launched a program of free public transport to encourage people to leave their cars at home. But they never did. When Tallinn launched the program ridership numbers did increase, but not by the 20% the city had projected. Instead, they grew by a modest 3%, and by people already using public transport. What happened is that more pedestrians and bike users started to use public transit instead of walking and cycling. But car users continue to drive to work. Do you think the same would hold true in the U.S. if a similar program was started?

Comments

I would sell it

[prefec2]

If public transport would be free in all of Germany, I would not use this car thing again.

Re:I would sell it

[LinuxIsGarbage]

Is it convenient? If I take the transit and it only extends my commute from say 10 minutes to 20 minutes, but I don't have to worry about paying for parking, finding parking, etc. sure I'd take it. But I probably already would be. If it took 1.5 hours and two transfers where I have to wait 20 minutes each at a terminal, vs 30 minutes driving, no, I would not take transit.

Re:I would sell it

[JoeMerchant]

Depends - does the public transport system suck less than driving a car?

Yes, driving 45 minutes through rush hour traffic sucks, but when the alternative is to drive 20 minutes, then spend an additional 40 minutes riding on public transport, waiting for a transfer, and finally walking exposed to the weather for 10 minutes at each end of the trip (40 minutes total exposure, just long enough to get totally rain-soaked at both the beginning and end of the day)... well, then, it doesn't really matter if you give that away for free, does it?

Re:I would sell it

[lgw]

My ideal is that everyone else takes public transport, and my 40 minute commute then becomes a 4 minute commute. I might need to remove the speed governor from my car, and get better tires, and add a rocket or two, but money well spent!

It's all about the routes, dummy

[damn_registrars]

If you make routes that are not useful - or have non-useful time tables - free, people still won't use them. A lot of driving that is done now is done in part because people are making commutes that are not easily - if at all - accommodated by existing public transportation infrastructure. If it takes two hours to get from A to B by public transport because you have to travel to C first - covering at least twice the total distance along the way and waiting for connecting buses or trains - people won't do it.

The other thing is the availability of parking. If parking in the city is affordable and available, that reduces the appeal of public transportation.

Chapel Hill/ Carrboro North Carolina

[duckintheface]

I frequently ride public transit in Chapel Hill and Carrboro. It is the largest fare free system in the US. It is used by many people but growth in usage depends on many factors. Park and Ride lots make a big difference for people who live outside of town and must drive to get even close to their destination. Sidewalks make a difference because people who live close enough to walk to a bus stop have to have a safe place to walk. The Chapel Hill buses have bike carriers on the front so that bike riders can take the bus for part of their trip.

But one of the biggest factor is how easy it is to find parking. Cities use a huge amount of their space just to store cars during the day. The more expensive and hard to find parking becomes, the more people will use free public transit.

And all of this takes time. People have to adjust to the new reality of bus transportation being easier and cheaper than owning and driving a car. Over time, people will make decisions about where to live based in part on the presence of public transit. And if businesses also locate in areas served by transit, then it's easier for people to live and work on a transit line.

Re:Chapel Hill/ Carrboro North Carolina

[cayenne8]

They also need to work, in many areas, on comfort, cleanliness, and speed. We shouldn't be trading down to public transportation. Install something like PRT so that the public option is just plain *faster* than cars and people will love them. Heck, one idea I had was to put in more elevated walkways to avoid weather complaints and increase pedestrian capacity, then put slideways in the elevated walkways such that you double the distance a pedestrian can cover in a set amount of time. Which allows for fewer stops by mass transit as the acceptable walking distance between stations has doubled.

Nope, I don't think I'd much ever be interested in public transportation for many of the reasons you stated.

For me, it would be HIGHLY inconvenient. Having to wait on their schedule, and not being able to come and go on my time table is a deal killer.

Also, for things like grocery shopping, that wouldn't work. I usually look at the weekly sales and go hit 3+ grocery stores to get the best sale items. And I buy at once for a whole week, or even to put large things of meat in the deep freezer in case of a sale.

And for work? Forget about it. No routes are straight to my places I've worked at. I'd have to change multiple times, and nothing drops me off at the front door (or picks me up close to my home front door)...and in the heat of the summer or a torrential rain, well, I'd be soaked to the bone and not really professionally presentable.

Also...not the best thing in the world picking up a date via the bus, you not only look cheap, but she's not gonna real be thrilled sitting next to a smelly bum.

But to the bottom of it. I like to buy FUN cars. I've owned sports cars all my life. I have a blast every time I jump in the car and fire up the ignition. Why would I trade that for the PITA that would be public transportation? I have the means, and I'll always prefer my independence and enjoyment over saving a couple $$.

The sole exception being when I don't feel like the hassle of parking in the Quarter (and avoiding car break-ins), I do tend to park at the end of one of the street car lines, and ride into there to party, and catch a ride on it back to my car at the end of the night. But that is about the sole special example I could think of to ride public transpiration. And hell, that's only $1.25 each way...who doesn't have that?

In the USA

[fyngyrz]

Public transport in the USA is almost uniformly low-ball, by which I mean to wave my hands at uncomfortable seating, sparse scheduling, sparse pickup and drop-off locations, smelly (nothing like an old diesel engine to get your sinuses in an uproar), and simply old-school -- the number of cities with proper elevated monorail systems that don't impact the streets or create shadowy hangouts for the unsavory is very small, and those (looking at you, Seattle) tend to not actually implement route coverage that is worth even considering for most excursions unless you're one of the lucky few who live, work and shop right along the line itself.

Offering something worth very little for free isn't going to get anyone very far, no pun intended (but I'm always happy when they fall out like that, lol.)

Considering my own use of private vehicles, I use them because:

o It's point to point; I start where I am and I end up where I'm going
o It's considerably more secure; windows up, doors locked, only trusted riders are on-board, and I control the vehicle
o I have my music (and my ham radio gear), in short, the environment is customized for me
o There's no waiting, no calling, and no communications problems
o Joyriding
o Car sex is fun and safe if done thoughtfully, while public transport sex is a direct route to the courtroom

Any of these would be sufficient, but all of them together are broadly decisive. A bright, scenic trip on a monorail appeals on its own merits; very little else does. That's because I have spent an enormous amount of time on public transport and liked it not at all.

My overall impression is that public transport as implemented here is that it is the very least we can get away with, regardless of the harm done.

I don't think we should be looking at it with an eye to making it incrementally better, either. It's a black hole that sucks very large amounts of money and returns nothing of new value. No one with an actual comprehension of the risks prefers public transport -- I think the most common case by far is that people use it because they have to use it.

What we need to be looking at is electric transport in varieties suitable for the individual and the various types of family units. Non-polluting in and of itself, utterly agnostic as to how the power it uses is generated, thus 100% friendly to conversion from polluting power generation to non-polluting. These vehicles can be extremely light and easy to park/store, ranging from tiny electric scooters for good weather use (we have one... awesome fun) through small enclosed commuter vehicles to full-on sedans and SUVs for people who need those. Circumstances and availability are rapidly improving in this regard. I see it as the best place to put our investment, if we are to be putting it anywhere in particular regarding transport itself. Beyond that, public funding should be going to infrastructure maintainance, because infrastructure decay is a very serious problem in this country.

I also think that in the urban context we tend to separate working- and living-specialized areas. This area is apartment buildings, that area has factories and so on, while shopping has clustered elsewhere. I suspect that's cost us more than it has benefited us. If the majority of people could reasonably live and shop close to their jobs, transport would be considerably less of an issue. But we don't seem to want to swallow that, and so we end up paying for our preference.