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UK Pilots Want Lithium Battery Powered Devices In the Cabin
AmiMoJo writes: The professional association and trade union of UK pilots The British Airline Pilots Association (BALPA), has asked airlines to require travelers to carry devices that run on lithium-based batteries with them in the passenger cabin instead of in checked luggage. The union hoping to address what it considers a significant potential safety risk, baggage fires going unnoticed in the hold. BALPA explains, "when they short circuit, [they] have a tendency to burst into high intensity fires, which are difficult to extinguish." They further point out, "lithium battery fires have caused at least three cargo aircraft crashes and the UN safety regulator has banned a specific type of lithium battery (lithium metal) from being carried as cargo on passenger aircraft."
Now I need TWO bags for my vibrator collection.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
I thought we all kept our stuff in the cloud and we can just 3D print a new device at the destination?
Have I been misinformed or am I just a Luddite?
This is a laudable suggestion with three small caveats, assuming you don't ban our iPhones, laptops all together :-
1/ If we are required to carry these batteries in the cabin then a mass dispensation needs to be made to accommodate them and what they are powering if non-removeable (I've had situations in the past where I needed to check my laptop power supply and batteries to get under the cabin Mass allocation)
2/ TSA etc cannot require that devices be activatable to be carried as a dead battery would mean nowhere else to carry them. (To be honest I nere understood this rule as all previous instances of 'converted' electronic devices used on planes would have passed this test but not the chemical sniffers.)
3/ If they do catch fire in the cabin, what you gonna do in the short period of time before toxic fumes start killing passengers. My suggestion, get an empty food trolley and keep duct-tape on hand.
Is it some devious logic that if the battery kills the owner first, there would be some justice? Or it would gradually dawn on to the passengers that these batteries have very high energy storage densities and are dangerous, slowly they would stop carrying them?
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
LiFePO4 are a class of lithium batteries which do not have this thermal runaway problem. The disadvantage is that they have less energy density when new, but because other lithium battery technologies quickly lose capacity, this disadvantage is eliminated at a year of age, and thereafter, LiFePO4 has a higher energy density. LiFePO4 batteries are what should have been used in the Boeing 787 in the first place, in order to prevent the problems that grounded the fleet.
first cheeked bag free will help as well as people will be taking see stuff in side the main cabin
No. UK pilots want lithium batteries OUT of the cargo hold. They don't have some odd desire to populate the cabin with lithium batteries.
Are you sure they may have some batter powered devices fetish.
Maybe if the baggage handlers didn't miss treat the luggage they would less damage
Gadgets with Lithium batteries in the cabin instead of the hold. I'm okay with that. Anything that goes in the hold is likely to get stolen. Heathrow* didn't earn it's nickname Thiefrow for nothing!
* London Heathrow.
Take Nobody's Word For It.
No. UK pilots want lithium batteries OUT of the cargo hold. They don't have some odd desire to populate the cabin with lithium batteries.
Just ban lithium batteries outright. No problems in the cargo hold, no problems in the cabin although passengers maybe pissed by not being able to use/carry on the plane ipads, iphones and other modern day life gadgets.
Why would you assume that Allah would need to or even want revenge for such a thing? Assuming, for the moment, that Allah is actually opposed to gay marriage, and assuming that said deity even actually cared about what it was that we do, what would be the point of an omniscient and omnipotent being giving humans what is supposedly a free will if said deity was going to be petty and actually try to micromanage human behavior via swift vengeance for every infraction?
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
I bet they can't produce their American Birth Certificates either.
No. UK pilots want lithium batteries OUT of the cargo hold. They don't have some odd desire to populate the cabin with lithium batteries.
Just ban lithium batteries outright. No problems in the cargo hold, no problems in the cabin although passengers maybe pissed by not being able to use/carry on the plane ipads, iphones and other modern day life gadgets.
Fuck you. I want to be able to take a fucking camera on holiday and I don't think bringing it is a huge risk to life and limb.
You are aware every single tablet a mobile phone uses lithium batteries, as do all modern laptops? Likewise for cameras, portably DVD players and just about every single rechargeable electronic device made in the last decade.
Good like trying to ban that! There's more chance of getting twats like you off the net.
In a weird opposite meaning, https://xkcd.com/651/
Time for the device manufacturers to enable changeable batteries and flexible power for their products. Can't bring the battery to the plane? Leave it a out and power the device from the seat integrated power. Buy or rent new batteries at the destination.
what would be the point of an omniscient and omnipotent being giving humans what is supposedly a free will if said deity was going to be petty and actually try to micromanage human behavior via swift vengeance for every infraction?
If you stop assuming a "good" god than Abrahamic religions will make a lot more sense to you.
1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
2? 3? Not sure - plenty of "implicated but not proven" or "something caught fire, landed safely, nobody hurt but extensive damage".
This is an interesting read, though - lengthy report of incidents, including minor (e.g. smoking bag before being loaded) between March 1991 and April 2015:
http://www.faa.gov/about/offic...
The plane(s) that supposedly went down (Malaysia Air?) from lithium in cargo, would obviously be a problem. The current regulation for Class 9 requires these not to be shipped on passenger aircraft. Adherence to the rules may have been botched. Also, Class 9 requires the series T-tests according to the UN 38.3 spec, and put very severe limits on lithium content, and includes crush testing.
Ever since the famous Sony laptop fires, how many laptops, phones et cetera have been transported on board aircraft? Billions? Millions? How many fires? How many downed aircraft from burning phones, digital watches, tablets or laptops? None? Not that the common Lithium polymer and Lithium Ion cells could in most cases be replaced by the much safer Lithium Iron Sulphate cells, it seems like this may be overblown.
The lithium in the cells is not the primary problem, but the flammable electrolyte is. It has a very low boiling and flashpoint. Lithium Ion and poly commonly contain a LiCoO2 where the weak cobalt-oxygen bond breaks under stress and oxygen feeds the fire internally. Regulations are addressing the problem as "lithium problem", makes it harder for safer lithium technologies to be readily adopted. LiFePO4 is the safest Lithium battery yet. It has a 30% weight and size disadvantage which should not be to hard to accommodate in most cases.
If there had been a rash of cabin lithium battery fires I'd think we would have heard about it, and the aircraft would be equipped with sand-buckets whatever to dispose of burning laptops.
I wouldn't trust a Muslim with a lithium battery in the cabin. How long before one of them sorts one out with some convenient jewellery chain or chocolate wrapper?
If you stop assuming a "good" god than Abrahamic religions will make a lot more sense to you.
Indeed, there is a dichotomy in religions since the Zorastrians. Most of the Abrahamic religions descended from Zoroastrianism have both a "good" and a "bad" god. Some examples:
Angra Mainyu (Zoroastrian)
God and Satan (Christian)
Allah and Shaitan (Islam)
The more monotheistic religions (such as Judaism after the Babylonian exile, and Baha'i) are either recent or were polytheistic originally.
If you stop assuming a "good" god than Abrahamic religions will make a lot more sense to you.
Indeed, there is a dichotomy in religions since the Zorastrians. Most of the Abrahamic religions descended from Zoroastrianism have both a "good" and a "bad" god. Some examples:
Angra Mainyu (Zoroastrian)
Ahura Mazhda and Angra Mainyu (Zoroastrian)
God and Satan (Christian)
Allah and Shaitan (Islam)
The more monotheistic religions (such as Judaism after the Babylonian exile, and Baha'i) are either recent or were polytheistic originally.
Did I miss something? the part where planes are dropping out of the air left and right due to someone's iPhone in the hold?
I think it's one thing to talk about say... shipping a palate or two of LiON batteries in the hold of a passenger airliner? sure, ban it, but I think this is a serious over-reaction to a problem that really is not exactly the most pressing thing threatening us today.
The Digital Sorceress
I'll take both. There's nothing wrong with letting two adults keep things between themselves however they want to. On the other hand, religions themselves tend to have peaceful teachings; it's people that fuck up the implementation and destroy lives.
Perhaps I am naive, but I just assumed airplane cargo holds had some sort of fire-suppression mechanism.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
... and most watches
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
modern automobile keys...
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
They don't have some odd desire ...
As pointed out, this would ban most battery-powered devices from aircraft. Which is not practical for passengers who will have 1 or 2 devices with rechargeable lithium batteries. (Calculators, watches, car keys have single-use lithium batteries.) The easiest option is to provide a detection system for inevitable fires, such as the owner. Another alternative is to eliminate the trigger (air pressure, vibration, what?) for the fire.
Lithium batteries protect themselves from shorts.
You must be thinking of a cell.
Fuck you. I want to be able to take a fucking camera on holiday and I don't think bringing it is a huge risk to life and limb.
And so you can:
http://www.leslikescameras.com...
Why can't women be like Hedy Lamarr - beautiful, talented and inventors of frequency-hopping spread-spectrum techn
Look, before I got a BSc in CS, I went to college and got an AD in Electronics Engineering (specializing in Avionics --Aviation Electronics). Lithium batteries are *NOT SAFE* in the Cockpit or E&E pit. When the lithium meets air, it wants to *BURN HOT*. VOR? DME? HF radio beacons? Glide Slope? ADS-B? Radar data? GONE! Flying on by guess and by God! Boeing had major problems with the 787 Dreamliner due to Lithium Ion cells. Lithium Ion Cells can store a lot of energy, but are not intrinsically safe. Getting power from engines and storing power in capacitors is a better solution (up to several hours) if you want a "the engines are dead and we want to have all instruments still working including all telemetry and radio" scenerio. Capacitors only blow up if you plug them in backwards, but nicks and scratches on LiOn batteries cause them to burn.
Why would Allah need to seek revenge? One would think he would be very pleased with the fact that he can now legally marry.
It would seem like they would like to move the issue from the Hold, where the batteries will burst into flames and apparently the automatic sprinklers cant put them out. To the Cabin, where they will still burst into flames, but they will probably start not only an intense fire but also a deeply poisonous smoke cloud as all the plastics in the cabin start to burn. I'm not quite sure of the merit of the proposal . It would appear that they would prefer to kill the passengers with smoke rather than killing them by crashing the plane???
Unfortunately that would require standardised batteries. While most alkalines have decent standardisation (AA AAA C D PP3 etc) at least until you start looking at watch/camera batteries, every single laptop has its own type of battery. You just wouldn't be able to stock enough of them to be able to run a shop that could cater to everyone. Indeed most high street electronics shops (eg Currys/PC World) no longer sell spare batteries because they'd have to stock too many kinds to be practical. Even for their current range of devices. Instead they sent you to a website/phone number that ships out of a large warehouse. Renting from somewhere like that may be an option, but it'd mean you'd only get your battery several days into your important business trip.
Manufacturers have their own battery types for a good reason: LiPo batteries (the most common type nowadays) are very flexible and can be made to fit devices in a custom way, wasting as little space as possible. Previous types were much bulkier. Good luck with your standardization effort, you can eradicate world hunger when you're at it. It's probably just as easy.
The devices must go somewhere. Just about everything contains a potentially flammable lithium battery nowadays so you can't ban them.
This is already done from Traveling from China. I literally was asked if I had any batteries in my checked bags when I checked in 22 hours ago to fly back to the US from China.