NASA Spies Earth-Sized Exoplanet Orbiting Sun-Like Star

An anonymous reader writes: NASA has announced that a new Earth-like planet has been discovered that may be the closest thing yet to a first true "Earth twin." Kepler 452b is located 1,000 light years away, is 60% larger than Earth, and orbits Kepler 452 at a distance similar to that between Earth and the Sun. "It is the first terrestrial planet in the habitable zone around a star very similar to the Sun," says Douglas Caldwell, an astronomer at the SETI Institute in Mountain View, California.

Comments

2 time the gravity thought

[Eloking]

2 time the gravity thought...

Re:2 time the gravity thought

[Anonymous Coward]

Wouldn't that be directly related to the MASS of the planet, not the size?

Maybe I forgot how to science.

Re:2 time the gravity thought

[unixcorn]

Right, 60% larger gravity would be tough on a fat guy like me. Also, can someone please help me understand the orbit thing? In the article it appears that 186 orbits a brighter-sun closer to Mercury's orbit as opposed to Earth's. The Earth has liquid water in the summer and frozen water in the winter just with the polar shift. How can a planet orbiting closer to a brighter star have anything but steam in the atmosphere, if it even has water?

Re:2 time the gravity thought

[CrimsonAvenger]

You did, in fact, "forget how to science" - he's right.

From TFA, it's 1.6x the diameter of Earth, and 5x the mass of Earth.

Which puts it about 2x the surface G, when rounded to two significant digits (1.95+).

Note this world is rather denser than Earth - 5x the mass packed into 4x the volume. Should be a great place for heavy metal poisoning. Or toxic wastelands. Something like that....

Re:2 time the gravity thought

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes... mass as well as diameter will play a role :P

Re:2 time the gravity thought

[MightyMartian]

I'm thinking the worst aspect of that higher gravity would be a much denser atmosphere. We certainly could survive in 1.6g environment, but we couldn't survive the crushing weight of that atmosphere.

Re:2 time the gravity thought

[Anonymous Coward]

Thank you sir, I did not complete reading the article.

"Should be a great place for heavy metal poisoning. Or toxic wastelands"

Ahh we should feel right at home there then.

Re:2 time the gravity thought

[mark-t]

Yes, but because gravity is inversely proportional to the square of the distance, by being further from the center of mass in a larger planet, the net gravitational effect where the density of the planet is otherwise the same is scales linearly with the diameter. Assuming earth-like composition, the planet is 1.6G at its surface.

Re:2 time the gravity thought

[Anonymous Coward]

Think of the football player from this planet! They would be about 3 feet high and enormously strong...but maybe our air is too thin for them

Re:2 time the gravity thought

[CrimsonAvenger]

And I repeat: from TFA, mass of the planet is 5x Earth Mass. Diameter (and radius) is 1.6x Earth.

Insert 5x mass and 1.6x radius into Gm/r^2, and you very quickly realize that:

1) density isn't the same as Earth's. It is, in fact, a.25x Earth density.

2) surface gravity will be ~2x Earth (1.95+g).

Re:2 time the gravity thought

[Anonymous Coward]

We have free diving records down to 200m... People regularly dive for hours down to 50-100m (5-10 bar pressure). I doubt thick atmosphere will be an issue for us. And high gravity does not mean thick atmosphere in the slightest.

Re:2 time the gravity thought

[bledri]

Right, 60% larger gravity would be tough on a fat guy like me. Also, can someone please help me understand the orbit thing? In the article it appears that 186 orbits a brighter-sun closer to Mercury's orbit as opposed to Earth's. The Earth has liquid water in the summer and frozen water in the winter just with the polar shift. How can a planet orbiting closer to a brighter star have anything but steam in the atmosphere, if it even has water?

You're looking at the wrong planet. Kepler-452b is the planet whose orbit is similar to Earth's orbit. And it's sun is similar to ours. Kepler-186 is orbiting much closer to it's star, but it's star is much cooler than ours.

Re:2 time the gravity thought

[daenris]

Though as one of the questions during the briefing asked, they don't actually know the mass. They're pretty much guessing based on the size by using the distribution of a smaller pool of past planets that they do have mass estimates for.

From the caption for figure 4 from their presentation: "While its mass and composition are not yet determined, previous research suggests that planets the size of Kepler-452b have a better than even chance of being rocky."

http://www.nasa.gov/keplerbrie...

Re:2 time the gravity thought

[aaron4801]

If 60% larger is "Earth-Sized," call me when they find something "Mars-Sized."

Re:2 time the gravity thought

[Anonymous Coward]

Two times the gravity, though...

FTFY.

Re:2 time the gravity thought

[Anonymous Coward]

We can survive enormous atmospheric pressures. Saturation divers are known to go a third mile underwater, and that's an entire Earth atmosphere of pressure every 30 meters! High Pressure Syndrome doesn't even show up until they get to 6x our regular atmospheric pressure (atmosphere + 150m of water), and that can be offset by adding nitrogen into their air supply.

Re:2 time the gravity thought

[starless]

And I repeat: from TFA, mass of the planet is 5x Earth Mass. Diameter (and radius) is 1.6x Earth.

Insert 5x mass and 1.6x radius into Gm/r^2, and you very quickly realize that:

1) density isn't the same as Earth's. It is, in fact, a.25x Earth density.

2) surface gravity will be ~2x Earth (1.95+g).

The mass of the planet is only an estimate currently as that can't be measured without radial
velocity studies.
But assuming that mass I agree with your gravity estimate.
But your density is wrong (maybe a typo?), volume scales as size^3, so density is like 1.22 x Earth
for that assumed mass.

Re:2 time the gravity thought

[ChrisK87]

"Note this world is rather denser than Earth - 5x the mass packed into 4x the volume. Should be a great place for heavy metal poisoning. Or toxic wastelands. Something like that...."

Not necessarily. A planet with a larger radius retains heat better thanks to its lower surface area to volume ratio, and a planet with higher gravity will more efficiently separate its component materials by density, i.e. drawing metal elements into its core. And since the planet is retaining more heat, it will probably have had more resurfacing and tectonic activity than Earth did. So a denser planet does have more metals, but by being larger it is also going to have a lower proportion of it [metals present during formation] in its crust than a 1G planet.

As to which effect dominates in this situation, that's a question for someone with an actual model of planetary evolution.

Re:2 time the gravity thought

[Applehu Akbar]

Heavy metal poisoning for us, maybe, but the presence of heavy metals means more industrial options for a species evolved to live there.

Re:2 time the gravity thought

[bledri]

If 60% larger is "Earth-Sized," call me when they find something "Mars-Sized."

OK, Kepler-138b is about the size of Mars.

Re:2 time the gravity thought

[meerling]

The whole "Earth-sized" thing is a misnomer because apparently journalists are stupid. All it really means is "This isn't a gas giant". Outside of that one point, it's pretty much a crap shoot.

Re:2 time the gravity thought

[Camel Pilot]

.... Should be a great place for heavy metal poisoning. Or toxic wastelands. Something like that....

Great so EPA restrictions should be minimal then... let's go

Re: 2 time the gravity thought

[Anonymous Coward]

Or gold?

Re:2 time the gravity thought

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds like a perfect place for the Toxic Avengers!

Re:2 time the gravity thought

[CrimsonAvenger]

But your density is wrong (maybe a typo?), volume scales as size^3, so density is like 1.22 x Earth

Typo. That was supposed to be "1.25", not "a.25".

Re:2 time the gravity thought

[fizzup]

...an entire Earth atmosphere of pressure every 30 meters!

10 meters.

Re:2 time the gravity thought

[mark-t]

from TFA, mass of the planet is 5x Earth Mass.

I'm not sure what you were reading.... From the page linked to the summary:

Scientists do not know if Kepler-452b can support life or not. What is known about the planet is that it is about 60 percent larger than Earth, placing it in a class of planets dubbed "super-Earths." While its mass and composition are not yet determined, previous research suggests that planets the size of Kepler-452b have a better than even chance of being rocky.

So I'm not sure where you got 5 times the mass from.

In fact, if we assume composition similar to earth, a planet 1.6 times the size of earth would have 4.096 (1.6 cubed) times the mass of earth

Because gravitational pull falls with the square of the distance, we could divide 1.6 cubed times the mass of earth by the square of 1.6 gives us exactly 1.6 times earth's gravitational pull at the surface of the planet. Thus, assuming identical composition, surface gravity scales linearly with diameter. While it probably doesn't have absolutely identical composition to Earth, there is not yet any compelling reason at this time to speculate that its composition would be drastically different either. Certainly if its density were 25% heavier than that of earth, then the mass (and surface gravity) would be exactly as you described. According to the page, we do not know that information yet, however.

Re:2 time the gravity thought

[Anonymous Coward]

We know all this from a wobble on a telescope.. That's science!

Re:2 time the gravity thought

[Last_Available_Usern]

Maybe this is where Eddie Lacy is from.

Re:2 time the gravity thought

[Curunir_wolf]

Note this world is rather denser than Earth - 5x the mass packed into 4x the volume. Should be a great place for heavy metal poisoning. Or toxic wastelands.

Or gold mining! Yea, that's the ticket to get the prospectors out there to colonize the place. Interstellar gold rush!

Re:2 time the gravity thought

[fyngyrz]

Think of the football player from this planet! They would be about 3 feet high and enormously strong

Yeah, but if it did that to them, it'd do the same thing to the cheerleaders, then there would be no reason to watch the game -- unless you have a gnome fetish.

Re:2 time the gravity thought

[Anonymous Coward]

Just because it has significant gravity (assuming it is even a rocky planet instead of mostly gas) doesn't mean it has a significant atmosphere. Note that it is believed that Earth's atmosphere was once much like Venus, an atmosphere of a whopping 92 MPa (vs 101.325 KPa for Earth). However over hundreds of millions of years it was converted by early life into some mineral (can't remember which one).

Re:2 time the gravity thought

[Anonymous Coward]

2x Earth's gravity != unsustainable for human life.
The human body survive and even adapt in a up to 3G environment: http://zidbits.com/2012/02/could-humans-colonize-a-planet-with-stronger-gravity/

Re:2 time the gravity thought

[cowwoc2001]

Could it be.... Krypton?

Re:2 time the gravity thought

[chinton]

Should be a great place for heavy metal poisoning. Or toxic wastelands.

Thank you, Dr. Righteous!

Re:2 time the gravity thought

[Anonymous Coward]

Calcium Carbonate?

Re:2 time the gravity thought

[circletimessquare]

so we do it like the movie "Armageddon"

but instead of oil rig workers we send wrestlers

send WWE personalities. send john cena and people built like him

Re:2 time the gravity thought

[ChrisMaple]

Density of Earth is about 5.5. 1.25 times that is still less dense than iron or copper.

Re: 2 time the gravity thought

[WindBourne]

Then, you should move to china or Somalia. They can give you the living conditions that you want.

Re:2 time the gravity thought

[Anonymous Coward]

So you wrote all that without checking if the second link in TFS has anything to say about mass...

Re:2 time the gravity thought

[tehcyder]

Or gold mining! Yea, that's the ticket to get the prospectors out there to colonize the place. Interstellar gold rush!

Yes, there's just the small matter of inventing FTL travel so that we can reach a planet that's 1400 light years away.

Re:2 time the gravity thought

[tehcyder]

...an entire Earth atmosphere of pressure every 30 meters!

10 meters.

He's probably a NASA engineer and confused metres and feet.

Re:2 time the gravity thought

[Anonymous Coward]

Whoosh!

Re:2 time the gravity thought

[david_thornley]

It all works out the same in big-O notation.

Re:2 time the gravity thought

[Anonymous Coward]

doesn't the rotational speed also factor into the effective gravity calculations?

Re:This planet is for cows.

[sycodon]

I would pay to see a cow in space.

Venus

[chinton]

Hooray! Kepler just discovered Venus!

Re:Venus

[Anonymous Coward]

Isn't that too big compared to Venus? Maybe a Venus of Willendorf...

Too Far Away

[lazarus]

It is 1400 light years away. It may be a good candidate for life, but we will never know. Even if we point SETI-type radio telescopes at it and monitor it for signals, they will have spent 1400 years getting to us and there is no guarantee that whatever civilization was there is still there. Chances of a "conversation" are nil.

If we detect life-emitting organic compounds on it, it also won't matter. We'd never be able to verify their veracity because we cannot get there.

Interesting discovery, but I can't muster up much excitement about this one.

Re:Too Far Away

[tomhath]

1400 years from now they will pick up the faint television broadcast signals of the Milton Berle Show and I Love Lucy. Then they will conclude that there is no intelligent life on Earth and point their antenna elsewhere.

Re:Too Far Away

[Anonymous Coward]

A Conversation With Kepler 452b, a short play

Setting: a radio telescope facility in America, 2015.

Scientists on Earth: Hello, lifeforms of Kepler 452b. Our telescopes have just discovered you. We are scientists here on Earth, a planet just like yours. Will our people be friends?

(2800 years pass before Earth receives a response.)

Kepler 452b: What was that? Your transmission was somewhat garbled.

Scientists 40,000 generations removed from the original scientists on Earth: æ'å¾æS±æã æ'èæ'äéf½æåoeYã æ'äåä¥æäæoeåå--?

(2800 years pass before another response arrives.)

Kepler 452b: I'm sorry. I don't speak whatever that is.

Scientists 40,000 more generations removed from the last ones, who by now are pretty much just robots and computers and stuff: 01001110 01100101 01110110 01100101 01110010 00100000 01101101 01101001 01101110 01100100 00101110 00100000 00100000 01010111 01100101 00100000 01110000 01110010 01101111 01100010 01100001 01100010 01101100 01111001 00100000 01110111 01101111 01110101 01101100 01100100 01101110 00100111 01110100 00100000 01101000 01100001 01110110 01100101 00100000 01101101 01110101 01100011 01101000 00100000 01101001 01101110 00100000 01100011 01101111 01101101 01101101 01101111 01101110 00100000 01100001 01101110 01111001 01110111 01100001 01111001 00101110.

(2800 years pass. Another response arrives.)

Kepler 452b: Sorry, was that second byte 01100101 or 01101101?

Scientists on Earth: (no response because everyone is dead from either bird flu, asteroid strikes, or IP-Gonorrhea.)

End.

Re:Too Far Away

[zlives]

yes nothing matters, must commit seppuku

Re:Too Far Away

[Anonymous Coward]

Nah, we'll just send the message through a parallel universe with different topology where the distance to Kepler 452b is just 1.6cm.

Re: Too Far Away

[ArmoredDragon]

Well it's possible that in a few million years, our star will once again become in close proximity to it's neighboring stars, making an interstellar journey not so far fetched.

Possibly when the Milky Way collides with Andromeda. Or when that happens, we could get thrown out of our galaxy entirely and end up being a lonely star system somewhere out in the void of intergalactic space, and then not even star trek style warp drive will take us there.

Re:Too Far Away

[Applehu Akbar]

The real significance of this discovery is not just that the system is Earthlike, but that it has been stable for two billion years longer than our own. That's time for a lot of local technology to happen. Once they get the Thirty Meter Telescope built on Gran Canaria or whatever other decent location is not infested by liberals, systems like this will be prime candidates for high-res observation.

Re:Too Far Away

[Tablizer]

We don't have to have 2-way communication to know if there is intelligent life there. If we receive their TV signals, for example, we'll know, even though we cannot reply in our life-time. (I hope they don't have Kardashians also.....hmm, maybe the Kardashians are from there.)

And, we may be able to pick up the spectrum of life-related chemicals from here if we get powerful/big enough telescopes. But, we wouldn't know much about the nature of the animals (or equiv.) from that alone.

Re:Too Far Away

[TwentyCharsIsNotEnou]

Chances of a "conversation" are nil.

Why? Even individuals had many productive conversations on this planet when it took weeks to get a reply via snail mail.

Of course individual humans today couldn't have a conversation with 1000 year latency (at least form Earth's side - the aliens might live a lot longer). The invention of cryogenics of some kind, extreme life expectancy increases, or relativistic time dilation could fix that though.

But as a civilisation, I don't see why we couldn't converse. Especially as civilisation ages - after 1 million years of technological growth, 1000 years mightn't seem that long.

(See also "Dragon's Egg" by Robert L. Forward for some great sci-fi in this vein)

Re:Too Far Away

[Camel Pilot]

That is long ping return...

>64 bytes from planet-blue (120.1.1.1): icmp_seq=1 ttl=100000000000000000000000 time=1400 years

Re:Too Far Away

[Anonymous Coward]

Just wait until they get to Justin Bieber and the Kardashians. We never stood a chance.

Re:Too Far Away

[LWATCDR]

" Even if we point SETI-type radio telescopes at it and monitor it for signals, they will have spent 1400 years getting to us and there is no guarantee that whatever civilization was there is still there."
"Interesting discovery, but I can't muster up much excitement about this one."
Really? You are an idiot.
The discovery of life in another solar system would be a HUGE discovery. Finding a technologically advanced civilisation would change everything. There is no telling what we could find out if we could read the data from the signals over time. However just knowing that we are not the only life in the Universe would be huge.
Sorry sparky this is science not Star Wars.

Re:Too Far Away

[robi5]

The GP's post was on topic, your weird post and my post are just vain efforts to criticize our respective P.

Re:Too Far Away

[Anonymous Coward]

I know what you mean, those pesky no-government and anti-science libertains would hate anything that didn't make a corporation (and its shareholders, naturally) richer.

Wait a minute, you said liberal? So you think the pro-science contingent who favors space exploration would not like this? I'm confused. Maybe you are confusing a social group of people (anti-science "new age" types) with a political leaning?

Re:Too Far Away

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you kidding ??!?

If we picked up radio broadcasts from a remote civilization, even a LONG EXTINCT one, it would be one of the most interesting things to happen in human history.

We would simultaneously:

- know sentient life has evolved eslewhere
- be able to pick up their ideas
- be able to study their culture
- learn about their planet
- etc

What if we could receive radio broadcasts from the Romans ? That would be incredible!

You can go on watching whatever crap TV we have, I would certainly watch theirs.

Re:Too Far Away

[Anonymous Coward]

The real significance of this discovery is not just that the system is Earthlike, but that it has been stable for two billion years longer than our own. That's time for a lot of local technology to happen.

Life on Earth has only more 500 million years. That's when the Sun starts to be an unstable star. We have run 95% of our evolutionary path. It's quite end of party for us. Sorry.

Re:Too Far Away

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't think you even began to understand the post you replied to. Sorry.

Re:Too Far Away

[Anonymous Coward]

We'd never be able to verify their veracity

But, maybe we'd have a shot at validating their validity.

Re:Too Far Away

[Curunir_wolf]

Why wait 2800 years for a particle transmission when they could just use a subspace channel?

Re:Too Far Away

[Applehu Akbar]

You said it - anti-science "new age" types. The people who for years have been proud of blocking every engineering project. Now they are turning on science itself.

Re:Too Far Away

[Applehu Akbar]

That's an exceedingly worst-case assumption, but let's say that's really all the time we have left. That's plenty of time to get not just off this rock, but out of this solar system.

Re:Too Far Away

[Ramze]

1400 years is indeed a long time, but if there is a civilization broadcasting, who knows what we might be able to learn from those broadcasts?!?

ET could be beaming out their PBS documentaries with the answers to nearly all our questions for them.

Even if there's no advanced life there, we now have a great target for sending a probe to detect life -- the fact that the humans that send the probe won't live to get the reply isn't important. Someone, someday will know if we send a probe now and it is successful in its mission.

Re: Too Far Away

[Anonymous Coward]

Either we solve the interstellar travel problem within the next few thousands of years, or not at all. If we don't, we won't be around in a few million years, much less when Andromeda collides with the Milky Way.

Re:Too Far Away

[ChrisMaple]

We have run 95% of our evolutionary path.

Please show your 100% evolved samples so that competent scientists (i.e. you're excluded) can measure our exact progress toward the 100% limit.

Re:Too Far Away

[ChrisMaple]

There's a technical problem here. Assuming electromagnetic broadcasting, for a signal's content to be discernible on Earth, the broadcast from a planet 1400 L.Y. away would have to use a substantial portion of all the energy impinging on the planet. What civilization would use that much power on such a dubious project?

Re: Too Far Away

[Gavagai80]

A star passed within 0.8 light years of Earth during the lifetime of homo sapiens, a mere 70,000 years ago. Our ancestors missed the boat.

Re: Too Far Away

[Anonymous Coward]

A star passed within 0.8 light years of Earth during the lifetime of homo sapiens, a mere 70,000 years ago. Our ancestors missed the boat.

Pictures or it didn't happen!

Re:Too Far Away

[Anonymous Coward]

You said it - anti-science "new age" types. The people who for years have been proud of blocking every engineering project. Now they are turning on science itself.

So you mean Republicans or Donald Trump Republicans? Donald is talking about starting his own political party, I wonder if it should be called the Road Kill Stapled To Their Head Party or Hoof in Mouth party.. not sure..

Re:Too Far Away

[tehcyder]

It is 1400 light years away. It may be a good candidate for life, but we will never know. Even if we point SETI-type radio telescopes at it and monitor it for signals, they will have spent 1400 years getting to us and there is no guarantee that whatever civilization was there is still there. Chances of a "conversation" are nil.

If we detect life-emitting organic compounds on it, it also won't matter. We'd never be able to verify their veracity because we cannot get there.

Interesting discovery, but I can't muster up much excitement about this one.

*puts on Space Nutter hat*

It's just an engineering problem.

Re:Too Far Away

[tehcyder]

Nah, we'll just send the message through a parallel universe with different topology where the distance to Kepler 452b is just 1.6cm.

Parallel universes can't interact or communicate with each other.

The proof is that we have had no such communications. (Same argument as that against time travel).

If there are a (near?)infinite number of parallel universes, you'd expect one of them to have managed it by now.

It's a similar argument to that against time travel.

Re:Too Far Away

[cusco]

So you are assuming that radio astronomy will just stop advancing from today onward, or what? When Voyager was launched the ability to pick up the signal strength we're currently monitoring didn't exist. IIRC, to monitor the signal from Voyager is the equivalent of viewing a 60 watt light bulb in the orbit of Jupiter. In the next decade or so we'll have radio telescopes in orbit with baselines of tens of thousands of kilometers. Already Earth sends out more radiation than the Sun at several interesting wavelengths, we should be totally detectable within a sphere of 100 light years.

I think that, rather than a technical problem, detection of a civilization by monitoring the radio band is an issue of timing. After barely a century we're already moving away from high power radio broadcasts towards lower-powered directed communications, I don't see why another civilization wouldn't follow a similar path.

Re:Too Far Away

[tehcyder]

Chances of a "conversation" are nil.

Why? Even individuals had many productive conversations on this planet when it took weeks to get a reply via snail mail.

There is a fairly clear difference between a delay that is less than 0.1% of your lifespan and a delay that is 2000% of it. In fact, once you're over 100% you are not in any real sense having a conversation.

Re:Too Far Away

[david_thornley]

I don't know about that. Physics is weird. It may be that it is possible to communicate between Universes, but it requires methods we're not currently using, like very precise gravity-wave detectors. (We leave as an exercise for the student what sort of spacetime geometry would allow such communication and still preserve the inverse square law.)

Or, from old H. Beam Piper stories, perhaps it is possible to travel between parallel universes, and one of them does have travel between them, and wants to make absolutely sure it's a secret from every other universe (and hence the Paratime Police).

Re:Too Far Away

[TwentyCharsIsNotEnou]

Which I stated in the very next line: "Of course individual humans today couldn't have a conversation with 1000 year latency".

Re: Too Far Away

[smaddox]

I'm not so sure thats true. I used to think something similar; however, I'm now convinced that we're really living in the most dangerous time period for our race right now. The difficulty is that in the next ~100 years (order of magnitude estimate) is that we need to transition from a growth economy to a steady-state economy, and the growing pains might be too much for us.

I think if we can get through this next ~100 years, then it will be trivial to get through the following 10,000 or more. Eventually we'll have to get off this rock to survive true global extinction events, but those should be quite rare at this stage in our solar system's life.

Re:Too Far Away

[smaddox]

I think he meant in terms of time, although his arithmetic is a bit off. 500 million / 4.4 billion = 11%, so by his logic we would have run 89% of our "evolutionary path".

Re:Too Far Away

[smaddox]

The problem with trying to detect radio signals from hypothetical alien civilizations is that they would almost certainly have to be intentionally signaling us, and at great expense (it would take a lot of power). High power analog TV transmissions (the type that can be distinguished from background noise) are nearly extinct on earth, and certainly won't last through the century.

As efficiency improves, every from of communication becomes more and more indistinguishable from random noise to any outside observer that doesn't know the protocol. So, unless we catch a civilization in the particular period of time between the invention of radio, and the invention and perfection of efficient communication, we won't be able to actually detect their signals to each other. I guess we could just look for unusually high powers of random noise, but there are already so many potential sources of high-power random noise that it seems pointless.

So it has come to this

[GroeFaZ]

NSA not content with Earth, extends spying to exoplanets.

Re:This planet is for cows.

[Anonymous Coward]

Go play the original Earthworm Jim.

im sure the news on Kepler 452b was grave.

[nimbius]

Keplerians: so...we've been discovered by the earth people?
Keplerian scientist: Yes, the small blue planet 1000 lightyears away knows of us now.
Keplerians: This is exciting! truly a breakthrough!
Keplerian scientist: Yes, one would think that...until you observe the electromagnetic spectrum emanating from the planet. We have yet to develop a complete understanding of the horrific bloodsport known as 'Kardashian'

Re:im sure the news on Kepler 452b was grave.

[gstoddart]

Except, of course, at 1000 light years away ... there are no EM radiations from us which would have reached there.

Sorry to burst your bubble.

Re: im sure the news on Kepler 452b was grave.

[ArmoredDragon]

Well it's been all but proven that the future influences the past, so the keplerians are likely taking advantage of that.

Re:im sure the news on Kepler 452b was grave.

[keiichi000]

But I'm sure if the Keplerians are aware of us, they probably already have a probe monitoring us. And I'm certain it has some sort of micro-wormhole data transfer device which allows them to transmit all of the wonderful offerings of those strange earth people into each Keplerian home for the low low price of 14'95 kumark / cycle. Unfortunately, Keeping up with Kardashians (Even though they can't understand WTF those people do) is a top show on the Keplerian home world, so we probably should just launch the nukes now and be done with them. =)

Re:im sure the news on Kepler 452b was grave.

[Anonymous Coward]

Except, of course, at 1000 light years away ... there are no EM radiations from us which would have reached there.

Sorry to burst your bubble.

Dude... here's five dollars. Go buy yourself a sense of humor.

Re:im sure the news on Kepler 452b was grave.

[robi5]

I'd have thought it depends on signal strength and the sensitivity of the sensor, not just the distance, and also thought that SETI tries to detect EM radiation, among other things. So what's the truth?

Re:im sure the news on Kepler 452b was grave.

[Anonymous Coward]

His point was that we haven't been transmitting (at least, as humans) EM signals for 1000 years.

Unless the real reason for the Dark Ages was humanity devolving after watching mindless TV shows. In which case, they'll know more about AD1000-era TV shows than we do.
Unfortunate, because it's really going to hurt our chances in the pop-culture category in interstellar Jeopardy.

Re:im sure the news on Kepler 452b was grave.

[ScentCone]

Except, of course, at 1000 light years away ... there are no EM radiations from us which would have reached there.

You obviously haven't been watching enough hard science documentaries on The Learning Channel, and don't understand the important role that our ancient pyramids have played in transmitting psycho-electrical immortality radiation towards the stars. Please try to keep up.

Re:im sure the news on Kepler 452b was grave.

[gstoddart]

Ummm ... yes, SETI does look for EM radiation.

But EM radiation pretty much travels at the speed of light.

As there is zero EM radiation emitted by humans which will have traveled 1000 light years, no matter how sensitive your sensor is, it simply cannot measure signals which haven't traveled that far.

So when we just now discover something which is 1000 light years away, what we are seeing is 1000 year old light, and conversely, what they can see/hear from us is also 1000 years delayed.

Around 1000 years after humans started producing EM radiation this planet might start receiving the earliest radio signals. But humans have not been transmitting EM radiation for anywhere near 1000 years.

There is NO amount of sensitivity of a detector which can have received EM radiation 1000 light years away from us, because we haven't been creating it for that long. That would involve time travel.

You know, because physics.

Re:im sure the news on Kepler 452b was grave.

[gstoddart]

Dude... here's five dollars. Go buy yourself a sense of humor.

Dude ... this is Slashdot ... if you don't expect someone to correct that, joke or not, you're pretty clueless.

News for Nerds, the pedantry comes for free.

Re:im sure the news on Kepler 452b was grave.

[sims 2]

Wow! I didn't know one could be had that cheaply nowadays

Re:im sure the news on Kepler 452b was grave.

[cbhacking]

That's actually not *entirely* true... humans haven't been making artificially modulated RF for a millennium yet, but artificial sources of EM (remember, *light* is EM) have existed practically as long as any form of civilization has. Cities are visible from space. Much less so when they're lit by candles and fireplaces than when they're lit by all the myriad electric sources found in modern cities, and there's a nearly-incomprehensible difference between LEO "from space" and interstellar "from space", of course. It also wouldn't tell the aliens anything about us (even if they had the sensors to detect those tiny motes of firelight, and distinguish them from natural sources) other than that we'd invented fire. Still, that's a lot, in some ways.

Re:im sure the news on Kepler 452b was grave.

[Anonymous Coward]

So they pick up these signals and decide to come finish us off, like Stargate but entirely on earth.,

Re:im sure the news on Kepler 452b was grave.

[iggymanz]

Except Earth has natural forest fires and prarie fires and methane fires.

Re:im sure the news on Kepler 452b was grave.

[cusco]

and methane fires.

Wonder how long people have been lighting farts . . .

Sorry, brain droppings.

Re: im sure the news on Kepler 452b was grave.

[tehcyder]

Well it's been all but proven that the future influences the past

So how come no one has corrected your idiotic statement from the future?

Re:im sure the news on Kepler 452b was grave.

[painandgreed]

Except Earth has natural forest fires and prarie fires and methane fires.

Yes, but assuming the equipment was sensitive enough, cities would detect as constant low burning fires that remained in the same place constantly over years. It would at least be unusual to have some many natural steady state, if not slowly increasing fires, and quite possible that the light spectrum does not match such known sources as natural gas or methane. However, if will probably be a larger clue, if they could detect ancient cities light, that said lights dim soon after sundown every day.

Re:This planet is for cows.

[OhSoLaMeow]

You are all cows. In space, no one can hear you moo. MOOOOOOOOOOO! MOOOOOOOOO! Moo cows MOOOOOOOO! Moo say the cows. YOU COWS!!

You're a pal and a cosmonaut.

Re:This planet is for cows.

[Anonymous Coward]

Hi "sexconker (1179573)". Don't make yesterday's mistake of not ticking the "Post anonymously" box!

http://news.slashdot.org/comme...

Naming the planets

[new_01]

They should really think about naming these planets (at least the Earth-like ones) alongside their Kepler designations. While there is the distinct possibility that we'll find thousands of these things, it would be good PR to have something to call it. The current names are tough to remember and don't do the huge discovery justice.

Re:Naming the planets

[tehcyder]

They should really think about naming these planets (at least the Earth-like ones) alongside their Kepler designations. While there is the distinct possibility that we'll find thousands of these things, it would be good PR to have something to call it. The current names are tough to remember and don't do the huge discovery justice.

Wouldn't it be easier to wait until we find planets with actual intelligent life on, and ask the people who live there what they call it?

Re:This planet is for cows.

[Anonymous Coward]

Already happened.
They put 3 cows in one of the Shuttle launches.
It was the herd shot 'round the world.

Re:This planet is for cows.

[Anonymous Coward]

You are all cows. In space, no one can hear you moo. MOOOOOOOOOOO! MOOOOOOOOO! Moo cows MOOOOOOOO! Moo say the cows. YOU COWS!!

Honestly, you have to stop milking that joke. It's udderly ridiculous.

Earth Mark II

[Anonymous Coward]

Arthur Dent: The Earth!
Slartibartfast: Well, the Earth Mark II, in fact. We're making a copy from our original blueprints.
Arthur Dent: Are you telling me you originally made the Earth?
Slartibartfast: Oh, yes. Did you ever go to a place - I think it was called Norway?
Arthur Dent: No. No, I didn't.
Slartibartfast: Pity. That was one of mine. Won an award, you know. Lovely crinkly edges.

Re:Earth Mark II

[jfdavis668]

In this replacement Earth we're doing, I've been given Africa to do and, of course I'm doing it with all fjords again because I happen to like them and I'm old-fashioned enough to think they give a lovely 'Baroque' feel to a continent, and they tell me it's not equatorial enough. What does it matter? Science has achieved some wonderful things, I know! But I'd far rather be happy than right any day.

Re:Earth Mark II

[ChrisMaple]

Chia Earth.

Hypergravity effects on rats

[Sla$hPot]

One should think that hyper gravity would lead to tissue damage or organ failure, but it seems like rats take it pretty well under +3 g.
Over a number of generations most living organisms would probably adjust to 2-3 g.
So life could possibly thrive on Keplar 452B.
If not in an advanced form then as bacteria.
According to below wikipedia article bacteria can tolerate insane levels of gravity.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

Question is. Could we pick up distant alien signals as far away as Keplar 452B?

Re:Hypergravity effects on rats

[meerling]

I guess that would depend on frequency, strength of signal, and if they even use something we understand like electromagnetic radiation for communication.

Re:This planet is for cows.

[meerling]

And the cow orbited over the moon...

Did anyone think about the aeronautically deprived pigs?

Earth Size, and 60% Larger?

[medv4380]

I'm willing to give Venus the title of Earth Sized. It's 80% the mass of the Earth, and roughly the same diameter. Plus or minus 20 percent of the earths mass and size sure. 60% is not in the right ball park yet. It would be ok to say this is the closest to earth sized but not earth sized.

Re:Earth Size, and 60% Larger?

[tomhath]

I think they mean it's small enough that it wouldn't become a gas giant, but it has enough gravity to hold an atmosphere

An Ode To Things That Are Too Far Away

[Hognoxious]

Luckily wifi and 3g don't travel that far, or they'd pick up facedot and twitbox and come to an entirely different conclusion.

They'd decide that there's not only no intelligent life on Earth, but there's a negative chance of it ever happening, and demolish it to build a hyperspace bypass.

Re:An Ode To Things That Are Too Far Away

[Anonymous Coward]

How does one have a negative chance of something happening?

Re:An Ode To Things That Are Too Far Away

[tehcyder]

How does one have a negative chance of something happening?

Even if you have apparent positive proof that it has happened, logic forces you to discount it.

Re:This planet is for cows.

[Anonymous Coward]

Ok...how long have you been just waiting for a situation to pop up where you could use that joke?

You are a bad man and you do very bad things.

It's just a stone's throw away

[AndyKron]

What are they waiting for? Get a space probe out there already! Oh, and take Donald Trump along for the ride.

Re:It's just a stone's throw away

[Anonymous Coward]

It would be more efficient if we just took his ashes.

Spying

[Curunir_wolf]

Now they have NASA spying, too??!! Is there ANY federal agency not getting involved in this over-the-top surveillance state activity?

Caprica or BSG Original earth?

[wolverine1999]

Is this Caprica or Battlestar Galactica's original earth (the one devastated by nuclear war)?

Big Planet

[lorinc]

It makes me think of Big Planet by the late Jack Vance. Of course this one is real and heavier, and the plot in big planet novels comes from the lighter density of the planet. But hey, these were fun stories. It's kinda sad we'll never be able to see another world.

Fermi paradox

[manu0601]

And perhaps there is some intelligent life form here. They are staring at us too, but since this is 1000 light-years away, they see our middle-age radio emissions, which are nil.

They will have an opportunity to see us in 1000 years, but at that time they will have trashed their environment and it will not be compatible anymore with being able to listen to radio signals.

What will water be like on denser planets?

[Taco Cowboy]

While I have a lot of interest in astronomy I am not trained in the field, thus, I have the following questions - hoping that someone may be able to answer them ...
 
Let's say a planet, Planet XYZ, which is 5X denser than earth and there's water on (and in) it --- how will the water behaves on that planet?

Will water on Planet XYZ 5X denser than planet earth have 5X the viscosity of the H20 we have on planet earth?

What if the planet has only half the density of planet earth? Will the water be half the viscosity as it is on planet Earth?

Re:What will water be like on denser planets?

[cusco]

The density of the planet would refer to the average of the entire planet. Water won't be any denser just because the planet has more metal and less silicon, there just won't be much if any ground water because it won't be able to percolate very deep. Now if the gravity were five times greater the water would be denser (because it's effectively being compressed), and the gradient would be much steeper than comparable depths here on Earth.

Venus is closer to an "earth twin" than that

[walterbyrd]

Not as far away either.