Slashdot Mirror


Sun Tzu 2.0: The Future of Cyberwarfare

An anonymous reader writes: Cyberwar and its ramifications have been debated for some time and the issue has been wrought with controversy. Few would argue that cyber-attacks are not prevalent in cyberspace. However, does it amount to a type of warfare? Let's break this down by drawing parallels from a treatise by 6th century military general, Sun Tzu, who authored one of the most definitive handbooks on warfare, "The Art of War." His writings have been studied throughout the ages by professional militaries and can be used to not only answer the question of whether or not we are in a cyberwar, but how one can fight a cyber-battle.

77 comments

  1. Imagine by invictusvoyd · · Score: 1

    If Sun Tzu had one of those shiny new laptops !

    1. Re: Imagine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah imaine. He would have decided that there were certain tactics and knowledge common to all warfare experts. He would have written them doen from his laptop.so you wouldnt know he had a laptop.

      He'd include a bogus one as a honeypot. Ans then you woukd discover thisgold.nine conveniently and play by their rules of warfare. All the while they could be doing something completely different. "Illusion vs reality" is mentioned as a key part of the document. Id say thats the illusion right there. But Ive never read it.

    2. Re: Imagine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If Sun Tzu had laptop, he would have made many grammar mistakes - just like you... :D

  2. Know thyself... by GoonDuIO · · Score: 3, Insightful

    and know your enemy's secrets and you will win a hundred battles. Or a hundred blackmails. You know what, forget about the 'thyself' bit, just know your enemy's dirty laundry.

    1. Re:Know thyself... by The+Evil+Atheist · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The "knowing yourself" part is to know your own security vulnerabilities, capabilities etc. Knowing your enemy's dirty laundry is fine only if they don't know yours. The essence of that Sunzi quote is about winning decisively at little to no cost to yourself. Winning a hundred battles is hard if you have nothing to fight with after the first battle, and knowing where you stand (and that you can stand) after any number of battles is key.

      --
      Those who do not learn from commit history are doomed to regress it.
    2. Re:Know thyself... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Sun Tzu was saying exactly that.

      The rest of that goes something like "know your enemy but not yourself and you will always be defeated"

      His point was that you have to know your own strengths and weaknesses as well as those of your enemy.

      So you can exploit your enemies weakness while not wasting effort attacking their strengths head on. But at the same time protecting yourself by looking strong where you are weak and weak where you are strong so your opponent wastes their effort where it does nothing.

      If you don't know your where you are weak you can't protect yourself. And if you don't know where your enemy is weak you don't know what to target.

    3. Re: Know thyself... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You let them fatten themselves and roll in their overly comfortable stagnant mess.

      Indeed, looking at the current situation in China, I'd say the West is doing a pretty fine job of letting them wallow in their own corruption right now.

    4. Re: Know thyself... by Archtech · · Score: 1

      Indeed, looking at the current situation in China, I'd say the West is doing a pretty fine job of letting them wallow in their own corruption right now.

      Matthew 7:3-5 https://www.biblegateway.com/p...

      --
      I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
  3. not 6th century by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sun Tzu 544 BC - 496 BC

    1. Re:not 6th century by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      That would in fact be the 6th Century (BC).

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    2. Re:not 6th century by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes. That is the point he was making.

    3. Re:not 6th century by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      Good thing you're a mind-reader, then, since I'm not.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    4. Re:not 6th century by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good thing you're a mind-reader, then, since I'm not.

      I think he was pointing out that 6th century (without qualification) is generally read as 6th century CE, as opposed to BCE, which was his time-frame. There's a roughly 1200 year difference, which would be significant if not for the fact that if someone not versed in Chinese history or language or culture, were dropped off by a time traveler, (Dr. How or Dr. Why, or whoever, for instance,) in 600 BCE in China, or in 600 CE, it's unlikely he'd have any idea WHICH 600 he'd been dropped off in, since technologically, and in terms of outwards appearance to a westerner of the 20th/21st century, they'd look and sound much the same.

      You'd have to know about some innovation or another, that occurred solidly in between the two, and observe either the presence, or obvious absence of the technology, or whatever, to know WHEN you are.

      Now, if you were dropped off in the year 600 on the Hebrew calendar in China, again, knowing little or nothing of China, you MIGHT notice. If you were dropped off 600,000 years ago, you'd almost certainly notice. This all assumes of course you're told WHERE you're going, and left to figure out WHEN.

      If you were dropped off, (continuing in this vein as inspired by Randall Monroe's "What IF's,") 600,000,000 years ago, you'd totally notice. There'd be giant insects, huge snakes, and not a mammal in sight, as you'd be the first by hundreds of millions of years.

      If you were dropped off 6,000,000,000 years ago... hope you brought along a space suit!

      If you were dropped off 60,000,000,000 years ago... according to most modern cosmologists, you'd see something very interesting. Take careful notes and observations, and when you return, IF you return, report what you saw to Stephen Hawking, as he'd almost certainly want to know, along with, well... everyone else.

      Be prepared to answer questions as to why you didn't stop 9/11 or Adolf Hitler. Because when you come back and tell everyone you've been gallivanting around time in a time machine, those are the first questions people are going to ask. Except that one guy, who will ask how you go to the bathroom in time. In answer to this question, you climb into the time machine, set the controls so that you reappear a mile above the guy's head and about 20 seconds before he finishes asking the question, hang your ass out the door, and take a shit. Then reappear right after you left, back on the ground where you were, and when the shit you took 20 seconds earlier, and one mile above him, (or however long it would take, accounting for the time required to extrude the feces, and accounting for wind resistance,) lands squarely on his head, say, "like that."

      For the rest of the day, you will now wonder whether or not a time traveler is going to hang his ass out of a TARDIS and take a shit strategically so it lands on your head. If this happens, just understand he was studying birds, and wanted to get inside ones head by taking a shit on someone else's. Because... that's what birds do.

      Now... what were we talking about?

  4. You don't fight "cyberbattles". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You win the war. You kill your enemy's technical experts and programmers. They're soft targets. You don't even need to kill them all, after the third decapitated body found with a keyboard up the ass and the head stuck on a pole and used as a toilet, they'll get the message and call in sick. Computer pedoweirdos are cowards.

    1. Re:You don't fight "cyberbattles". by Visarga · · Score: 1

      You don't need millions of programmers, just a few good ones. There will always be some with courage (ex: Snowden).

    2. Re:You don't fight "cyberbattles". by hamsterz1 · · Score: 0

      "You don't need millions of programmers, just a few good ones." "Fighting with a large army under your command is nowise different from fighting with a small one: it is merely a question of instituting signs and signals." – Sun Tzu

    3. Re:You don't fight "cyberbattles". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, they way to win. Only an idiot announce their intention to attack - the normal way is to use the element of surprise to the fullest. A whistleblower announcing his intentions in advance will get fired, and will then have to fight (and win) a battle with building security and police reinforcements before cracking an account with the same acesses he used to have before they revoked his. This is unrealistic.

    4. Re:You don't fight "cyberbattles". by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      A certain general would like to speak to you: http://www.brainyquote.com/quo...

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    5. Re:You don't fight "cyberbattles". by Archtech · · Score: 1

      I'm not convinced. History is full of instances to the contrary: cases in which a general failed because his army was too big for him to control. Indeed, there is a well-known story about a war in which the leading general of Nation A was warned that Nation B's commander-in-chief had 50,000 soldiers whereas Nation A had only 20,000. Nation A's general smiled and relaxed. "Why are you acting so pleased to hear that you are outnumbered two-and-a-half to one?" asked his alarmed subordinates. "Ah, I know General X," he replied. Given 10,000 men he is very competent. I think he could just about handle 20,000. But given 50,000 he will spend all his time trying to keep track and get organized. While he is doing that, we shall move in quickly and defeat him. It will be easy".

      --
      I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
    6. Re:You don't fight "cyberbattles". by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      Cyber-attacks, cyberspace are just a fancy way for wealthy US contractors to get more/new no bid funding and enjoy decades of wealth creation with new terms and sales.
      It depends how a nations understands its strengths.
      The US hopes the other side will always have a cell/sat phone, voice print, home computer, travel, be in CCTV range.
      That political leaders can be contacted and make coup offers or let US "advisers" enter ie
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_United_States_military_operations
      The Soviet Union, East Germany would study the outside life of the mil/gov staff members of interest and look for lifestyle choices that would make then open to some interaction or create their own Western staff over decades.
      Once established a turned person can stay in place for years, even selecting projects.
      The UK perfected both technical and human options thanks to its skill sets needed in Ireland and tracking all Irish funding from the US.
      Whats the best small nation, low cost system? GCHQ, MI6, SAS. That gives a nation the broad digital propaganda narrative, with that perfect personal covert in country touch when needed.
      Re the submissions "Few would argue that cyber-attacks are not prevalent in cyberspace."
      What is cyberspace to a nation, cult, faith, idea, flag? Propaganda, shills, sock puppets have to actually know what they are doing pre culture, pre coup.
      Most nations and their wider, educated diasporas are very resistant to such "cyber" efforts. Color revolutions with outside funding soon fail.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    7. Re:You don't fight "cyberbattles". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For battles, yes, sometimes the smaller force wins. For wars, not as much. In war, the side with the greatest industrial capacity and most manpower usually wins.
      “Quantity has a quality all its own.” - Joseph Stalin

    8. Re: You don't fight "cyberbattles". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And that's where auftragstaktik comes in.

    9. Re: You don't fight "cyberbattles". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What exactly has Snowden won? He's the one exiled whose life is hostage to the whims of a foreign government. There has been no public outcry, the US haven't suffered at all. The Surveillance Age persists, and more countries (like France) adopt the US methods. Snowden has lost. Obama reigns over the world.

    10. Re: You don't fight "cyberbattles". by meta-monkey · · Score: 2

      There has been public outcry. People are talking about it. Laws are getting passed. Opinions are changing. Snowden is in exile for now but I don't think he'll stay that way forever.

      The US declared war on Germany on 12/11/41. It took two and a half years to land at Normandy. It's still 1943 and you're declaring Hitler victorious.

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
    11. Re: You don't fight "cyberbattles". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, there has been public outcry. About 5 seconds of it. No taking it to the streets, no boycotts of US products, no diplomatic consequences. Laws are being passed alright... To enable more surveillance. The general feeling is: "there's nothing we can do". Apathy reigns. This is not WW2, the Nazis had powerful nations as their rivals. What do you do when you're just people, and *ALL* your governments are against you? It's over.

    12. Re:You don't fight "cyberbattles". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Computer pedoweirdos are cowards.

      Says the Anonymous Coward via his computer. Takes one to know one, eh?

      Anyway... I quite understand the urge to break every bone in both hands of people who hack into shit they're not supposed to, it's just like the compulsion felt by anyone who's ever had anything stolen from them, to want to bring back the practice, (or expand it to where they live,) of lopping off hands for theft, even petty theft. But at the end of the day, your impotent rage isn't going to do any good for you or anyone else, other than cause your stomach to fill so with acid and bile that it eats you alive from the inside.

      It's a lovely day, why not put on some sunscreen and bug repellant, and go outside and play?

      Actually, that's not a bad idea... think I'll do that myself!

      ATH0+++ NO CARRIER

    13. Re:You don't fight "cyberbattles". by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Ah yes, the "courage" to attack without warning and then run away and hide.

      It's only cowardly if the enemy or terrorists do it. If we do it, it's clever tactics.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  5. Cyberwar and how one can fight a cyber-battle .. by nickweller · · Score: 1

    "Cyberwar and its ramifications have been debated for some time and the issue has been wrought with controversy"

    No serious techie uses 'cyber' in a sentence. If you do want to go online and stay safe from hacking, then buy a computer that can't be compromised by opening an email attachment or clicking on a malicious URL (Uniform Resource Locator).

  6. If it is some kind of war by Lennie · · Score: 2

    I wouldn't be surprised if it's closest to a guerrilla war.

    It's hard to recognize the attackers before and after the battle, they are part of the crowd.

    With Anonymous and these other groups from for example Russia or Arabic countries, they might have no (direct) affiliation with any state. Just the 'cause'.

    --
    New things are always on the horizon
    1. Re:If it is some kind of war by steelwraith · · Score: 1

      "I wouldn't be surprised if it's closest to a guerrilla war."

      Exactly. Sun Tzu did have some aspects of asymmetric warfare in TAOW, but Mr. Herberger is making sweeping generalizations based on an out-moded concept of warfare. TAOW was based in a time where only larger entities (political or economic) had the capacity to project force at a scale larger than just the immediately local, if just for logistical reasons. In the space that electronic warfare will take place (because cyberspace is more then just the internet) we have the equivalent of redneck militias wielding nuclear weapons. One person with the right tools, at the right time, with the right information can bring cities to collapse from the other side of the planet and may never be implicated if they are skilled enough.

      Scaling that up to the nation state level you get things like 'cyber-kill-chain'. It actually becomes less efficient to conduct operations at that level due to a number of factors. Electronic warfare will be conducted by something akin to Operation Screaming Fist in Neuromancer.

  7. Re:Cyberwar and how one can fight a cyber-battle . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No serious techie uses 'cyber' in a sentence

    I'm a Doctor Who fan, you insensitive clod!

    (Also, cybernetics.)

  8. Depends on how you define warfare. by hamsterz1 · · Score: 0

    "However, does it amount to a type of warfare?" Listen to Sun Tzu himself define warfare: " All warfare is based on deception. Hence, when able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must seem inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near. Hold out baits to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and crush him." – Sun Tzu, the Art of War "Military tactics are like unto water; for water in its natural course runs away from high places and hastens downwards Water shapes its course according to the nature of the ground over which it flows; the soldier works out his victory in relation to the foe whom he is facing. Therefore, just as water retains no constant shape, so in warfare there are no constant conditions. He who can modify his tactics in relation to his opponent and thereby succeed in winning, may be called a heaven-born captain." – Sun Tzu "In all fighting, the direct method may be used for joining battle, but indirect methods will be needed in order to secure victory. In battle, there are not more than two methods of attack – the direct and the indirect; yet these two in combination give rise to an endless series of maneuvers. The direct and the indirect lead on to each other in turn. It is like moving in a circle – you never come to an end. Who can exhaust the possibilities of their combination?" – Sun Tzu

    1. Re:Depends on how you define warfare. by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      Trust me, it reads better in the original Klingon.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    2. Re:Depends on how you define warfare. by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Why didn't you just copy and paste the whole book? It would have been quicker and no one's going to read that wall of text anyway.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    3. Re:Depends on how you define warfare. by hamsterz1 · · Score: 0

      You have my scincere apology, I didn't think I put a "wall" of text up, as I can see other posts with about as many words as I put up, but if I was in error, again you have my apologies. Hamsterz1

  9. Poppycock! by Lurks · · Score: 2

    This really is a load of crap. Extract a bunch of fairly obvious stratagems from a received text, an English translation of generally dubious worth, and apply it to cyber warfare.... unsurprisingly it fails to stack up particularly well. Sunzi was almost exclusively fixed on the idea that armies were controlled by single entities and that virtually all actions under taken by them had cost, and thus could be factored in a set of trade-offs, or expert application of game theory, before game theory was a thing. It was insightful at the time, to say the least, it can still be useful to state the more obvious strategems of any conflict but to claim relevance today where the agents existiing in dramatically different contexts is weak sauce indeed. Sunzi, in particular, would be horrified that any engagement would essentially exist in perpetuity, if the sunzi bingfa (art of war) was indeed written by one person, then he would be horrified by the layout of modern cyber warfare, and would certainly be quite unable to add anything to the idea that one may have to defend against any number of actors, each of which potentially using different strategies at virtually no cost..

    1. Re:Poppycock! by The+Evil+Atheist · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Where do you get the idea that Sunzi was fixated on the idea of armies controlled by a single entity? He explicitly states, in one instance, that the generals on the field can disobey a prince. Sunzi's idea of war was about coordination of multiple entities each doing their own thing to win a war.

      And I contest that contexts are dramatically different. The contexts for tactics may be different, but overall strategies are still the same. Identify weak spots while hide or disguise your own. Borrow your enemies resources to attack them. Usage of spies. etc etc. The main reason why Sunzi was opposed to protracted warfare was the cost to the citizens. If what you say is true, that costs in cyberwarfare are negligible, then that concern of Sunzi doesn't apply. However, given how much money has to be spent on something like the NSA and still be completely ineffective, then your critique is wrong and the concern of protracted warfare does apply and the strategies to suit.

      --
      Those who do not learn from commit history are doomed to regress it.
    2. Re:Poppycock! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      True. No single English translation will ever fully capture the "Bing Fa". ("Strategic methodologies" would be an alternative rendition.) The Denma group's translation is arguably the closest so far, but you need to read a few different versions, really.

      Plus there's actually another 7 ancient Chinese books on war and strategy, including the Sun Bin (possibly a descendent of Sun Wu) which was rediscovered in the early 70s. Just focusing on the Sun Tzu and shoehorning it into every situation is simplistic at best.

      That said, there's not really anything else that comes close to it. Clausewitz is a mess, Machiavelli's "Art of War" is of its time. (Musashi's worth a read, though.)

      Something else that's usually overlooked is that the Sun Tzu is a very Daoist text. Reading it without understanding such context is doubly simplistic. Change and adaptation is central to his philosophy. So yes, if he were alive today, he'd probably be first to point out that it's not going to apply to modern circumstances.

    3. Re:Poppycock! by gtall · · Score: 1

      "given how much money has to be spent on something like the NSA and still be completely ineffective,"

      And you know this? How? They've been sending you memos?

    4. Re:Poppycock! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      His ideas on tactics (perhaps they are obvious stratagems, once you've seen them) can be applied to programming, specifically debugging and code organization. You just need to "generalize" them a bit. ;-)

    5. Re:Poppycock! by The+Evil+Atheist · · Score: 1

      Why don't you read the news. Luckily, you're on a news site where I'm sure this fact has been reported many times.

      --
      Those who do not learn from commit history are doomed to regress it.
    6. Re:Poppycock! by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      Luckily, you're on a news site where I'm sure this fact has been reported many times.

      Opinion. Not fact.

      Note that if NSA is doing its job properly, you'll never hear about its successes. So it could be 99.9% successful and fail 0.1% of the time, and you'd still hear about nothing but its failures in the news.

      Likewise, of course, for 0.1% success and 99.9% failure.

      Which is why any information about the NSA's functionality is an opinion. Even if it's promulgated by Congress, President, NSA head, whatever (since all of them have reasons to lie about it - if you KNOW it's doing it's job well, telling everyone it's not is a GOOD thing, not a bad thing)...

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    7. Re:Poppycock! by The+Evil+Atheist · · Score: 1

      If they were doing a good job, Snowden would not have been able to leak.

      --
      Those who do not learn from commit history are doomed to regress it.
    8. Re:Poppycock! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If they were doing a good job, Snowden would not have been able to leak.

      Or rather, Snowden wouldn't have felt the obligation to leak.

    9. Re:Poppycock! by ultranova · · Score: 1

      Note that if NSA is doing its job properly, you'll never hear about its successes.

      Don't we hear about foiled terrorist plots and infiltrated groups all the time?

      Also, one might argue that as an institution in a democratic society, NSA isn't doing its job properly unless you, the citizen, hear enough about its successes and failures to form an informed opinion about it. Because that's what democracy is: subjecting the institutions - both organizations and traditions - of the society to the will of the people.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    10. Re:Poppycock! by ComputerGeek01 · · Score: 1

      Sunzi's idea of war was about coordination of multiple entities each doing their own thing to win a war.

      Exactly, that text was fixated in bridging the gap from second to third generation warfare and was still focused on massed maneuvers of infantry against well defined targets. The world saw first hand the pinnacle of that during the German Blitzkrieg and by the time the Cold War between the US and the USSR set in the it was done with it. Traditional war between super power states had set the barrier to entry too high for new players to enter in and so the Maoist model of warfare has become predominant. Everyone from the Viet Cong to Iran and ISIL have been following the doctrine of fourth generation warfare since then and "cyber-warfare" fits that strategy better than any other. This article is stupid because TAOW, although interesting enough to read, is no longer applicable in today's world.

    11. Re:Poppycock! by lhowaf · · Score: 1

      This really is a load of crap.

      Absolutely! Applying The Art of War to cyberwarfare is pretty goofy. There are many actors with many motivations, targets, aspirations, strategies (or lack thereof) and tactics. The general principles can apply if you are focused on a particular opponent but are meaningless to "cyberwarfare" at large.

    12. Re:Poppycock! by The+Evil+Atheist · · Score: 1

      Again, no. The need for coordination does not necessarily translate to massed maneuvers. Sunzi was not concerned with tactics because they change with technology. Sunzi only discusses principles that applies regardless of the organization.

      --
      Those who do not learn from commit history are doomed to regress it.
    13. Re: Poppycock! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Read Guderian's "Achtung, Panzer!" Then go buy a tank.

  10. War is not art by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And there is nothing artful to it. It's an atrocity.

    1. Re:War is not art by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Only when you lose.

      The "Art" is the strategy. Not the results.

  11. Only idiots trust computers that trust programs by ka9dgx · · Score: 1

    If your operating system isn't smart enough to require a list of resources to feed a program you want it to run, you lose.

    If you built your entire civilization on such a stupid foundation, you lose.

    Anyone smarter than that can wipe you off the face of the earth, unless you can survive long enough to correct your deeply embedded mistake.

  12. Hasn't even begun to begin yet by Archtech · · Score: 1

    Disclaimer: Like many other, I abhor and reject all terms including "cyber" except "cyberspace" in its proper meaning (see William Gibson's novel "Neuromancer") which has very little in common with the Internet or any other present-day technology.

    That said, yes - "cyberwar" is entirely possible and would be immensely harmful. But no, we have not seen anything even slightly related to full-blown "cyberwar". If it happened, we would notice: trust me. It would blow the doors off computer systems most people have no idea exist: systems that give them power, light, water, network access (of course), banking, medical services, education, food, etc. etc. Our present posture in this respect is basically that of a person camping in the woods who has been told there are grizzly bears around, and whose response has been to tie himself up stark naked and hang himself from a tree at convenient nibbling height.

    It must have been about 20 years ago that I began lecturing and writing about the security risks of software systems. I always kept it as short and simple as I could, since I realize that security is not only very counter-intuitive but (to most people) appallingly boring. But I usually wound up with a warning: there were many threats, ranging from the trivial to the extremely serious; there was hardly any defence; and hardly anyone was taking the trouble or investing the resources to put up any defence at all. The only good news, I added, was that so far criminals had made no real efforts to exploit all the juicy vulnerabilities spread out before them. That wouldn't necessarily last, I warned.

    The same remarks, mutatis mutandis, apply to "cyberwar". It would cause far more harm than criminal exploitation, because the objective of war is to bring about complete defenselessness and unconditional surrender. Look at Iraq after the second Gulf war, and imagine that happening to all the IT infrastructure you know about (and that you don't know about). And, due to the design of the Internet and the amazingly insouciant carelessness of governments and corporations, our infrastructure is almost completely unprotected. What we have seen so far is analogous to a few spies and skirmishers probing the most obvious weaknesses. They have deliberately refrained from even hinting at what they could really do, because (as Sun Tzu pointed out)

    "Speed is the essence of war. Take advantage of the enemy's unpreparedness; travel by unexpected routes and strike him where he has taken no precautions".

    --
    I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
    1. Re:Hasn't even begun to begin yet by Archtech · · Score: 1

      As so often before, Henry Baker sums up the issue to perfection:

      "Once again, in our asymmetric world, people who live in glass houses shouldn't be throwing rocks—especially at those who don't live in glass houses". http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks...

      It's quite certain that, of all the nations in the world, the USA has far more to lose from "cyberwar" than any other.

      --
      I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
    2. Re:Hasn't even begun to begin yet by Archtech · · Score: 1

      Alas and dammit, that link should be http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks...

      Please pardon my incompetence.

      --
      I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
    3. Re:Hasn't even begun to begin yet by Opyros · · Score: 1

      Like many other, I abhor and reject all terms including "cyber" except "cyberspace" in its proper meaning

      What about "cybernetics"?

    4. Re:Hasn't even begun to begin yet by MagickalMyst · · Score: 1

      "I abhor and reject all terms including "cyber""

      That reminds me of a business teacher that I once had. She told the class that any business with the word "cyber" in it would simply fail - which I found ridiculous.

      ...especially since I had just left a company who used that word in their business name and was a multi-million dollar e-commerce company.

      --
      Political correctness is really just herd psychology pushed by insecure people who desperately seek social conformity.
    5. Re:Hasn't even begun to begin yet by Archtech · · Score: 1

      OK, it's a fair cop guv'nor.

      --
      I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
    6. Re:Hasn't even begun to begin yet by Archtech · · Score: 1

      The teacher's assertion was different from mine. I said that I don't like such words. She made a statement about what kind of business would succeed or fail. Her mistake was to neglect the published views of such luminaries as:

      "You’ll never go broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public".
      - Phineas T Barnum (Barnum’s Law)

      "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public".
      - H. L. Mencken

      --
      I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
  13. Re:War by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    To join the growing number of cyber-warfare units, or maybe a radio / radar (and internet?) jamming unit?

    What a splendid idea!

  14. you can't win by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 1

    if your enemy doesn't like you on their networks, they can always disconnect or turn off their machines.

    the only way to win is not to play.

    --
    Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
  15. Cyber~ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We need to allocate more cyberresources to our cyberwarriors fighting these cybercriminals. Cyberwarfare is serious cyberbusiness.

    1. Re:Cyber~ by GoonDuIO · · Score: 1

      We cyberneed to cyberallocate more cyberresources to our cyberwarriors cyberfighting these cybercriminals. Cyberwarfare is cyberserious cyberbusiness. CyberFTFcyberY. --Cyberdude

  16. Sun Tzu.1 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's not actually that different.

  17. He's trying to argue a specific side and failing by Wycliffe · · Score: 1

    He posts a point like "intended target must stay the same" or and then gives more support for the opposing side.
    I could easy take every one of his points and argue the exact opposite probably more effectively than him.
    Most of the cyber attacks today seem to be undirected from rogue disconnected parties with undefined or
    constantly changing goals and no way to achieve any sort of victory unless victory is defined as "causing chaos".

  18. He also stresses choosing ground. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sun-tzu stressed in general that a good part of winning was being able to choose the ground and conditions under which battle is joined.

    So connecting anything to the Internet that you want to be secure is stupid.

  19. Sun Tzu Revisited by hamsterz1 · · Score: 0

    1.The art of deception, is to control your enemies perception. 2.Stretch your enemy too thin, he can't possibly win. 3.When in doubt, draw your enemy out. Hamsterz1:)

  20. Sun Tzu is so 90s by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Personally I subscribe the writings of Shan Yu, "Live with a man 40 years, share his house, his meals, speak on every subject. Then tie him up and hold him over the volcano's edge, and on that day, you will finally meet the man"

    Sun Tzu is for idiot alpha male management types. The equivalent of "brogrammers." Quit reading this crap and just do your work.

  21. Re: He's trying to argue a specific side and faili by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's because "cyberattacks" today take the shape of acts of sabotage (Anonymous and assorted small children) with no strategy behind them. This is because proper strategy entails measurable goals and some kind of control behind it. There can be none of this because Anonymous and assorted small children cannot have any goals. They know they can't win, the "enemy" has already conquered all of its objectives, and all they can do is some half-assed vandalism thinking it might spoil the victors' feast. It is not. Grow up.

  22. Out by a thousand years by bunbun68 · · Score: 1
    Minor (!) inaccuracy in the article: Sun Tzu did not live in the 6th century but the 6th century B.C.

    Off by more than a thousand years...

  23. Re:Cyberwar and how one can fight a cyber-battle . by tehcyder · · Score: 1

    No serious techie uses 'cyber' in a sentence.

    That is the term being used by politicians and the military, so (as with "hacker") techies will just have to get used to the popular usage.

    --
    To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  24. Re:Cyberwar and how one can fight a cyber-battle . by nickweller · · Score: 1

    @tehcyder: "That is the term being used by politicians and the military, so (as with "hacker") techies will just have to get used to the popular usage."

    Only if you're happy to go into a room full of techies and sound totally stupid ..

  25. Re: War by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't forget the propaganda/spin department.

  26. That's not cyberwar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The article talks about websites down, DoSs etc. and that's just Internet politics by mainstream media, to legitimize laws, retaliate, rehabilitate "victims" etc.
    The real cyberwar is infiltration of personnel, persistent backdoors, data exfiltration etc. and that's mostly discussed between insiders.