Mozilla CEO: Windows 10 Strips User Choice For Browsers and Other Software

puddingebola writes: Mozilla CEO Chris Beard has sent an open letter to Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella complaining about the default settings in Windows 10. Users who upgrade to 10 will have their default browser automatically changed to the new Edge browser. Beard said, "We appreciate that it’s still technically possible to preserve people’s previous settings and defaults, but the design of the whole upgrade experience and the default settings APIs have been changed to make this less obvious and more difficult. It now takes more than twice the number of mouse clicks, scrolling through content and some technical sophistication for people to reassert the choices they had previously made in earlier versions of Windows. It’s confusing, hard to navigate and easy to get lost. ... We strongly urge you to reconsider your business tactic here and again respect people’s right to choice and control of their online experience by making it easier, more obvious and intuitive for people to maintain the choices they have already made through the upgrade experience.

Comments

IE all over again

[gstoddart]

So basically they're doing the same thing with Windows 10 as they did originally with IE? Making it part of the OS and claiming it can't be removed?

Sorry, Microsoft ... but everything I hear about Windows 10 is making me say "fuck you, I'll stick with my Windows 8.1".

When will Microsoft realize we own the computers, we are ultimately the ones who make decisions about the computers, and they simply can't dictate to us what software is on our computers and how we use it.

And, like every other Microsoft product, I'm sure this new hotness is riddled with security holes an defects for their users to have to deal with.

But don't worry, because they'll update the OS as they see fit, and if they break it, that's your problem ... says it right there in the EULA.

Keep alienating your customers, see how that works out for you. You might even find the DoJ knocking at your door if they ever grow a pair and stop doing whatever industry demands of them.

Re:IE all over again

[Anonymous Coward]

"fuck you, I'll stick with my Windows 8.1". ----- giahwaaaht?

I like MS but not their new stuff? I brain froze on the rest of what you had to say...

Re:IE all over again

[Anonymous Coward]

You could grow a pair yourself and stop using Windows.

Re:IE all over again

[squiggleslash]

I don't think so, browsers have always, until now, been able to set themselves as default, even back during the Netscape wars.

And they're not asserting ownership of your computer. What they've done is created a hamfisted (and biased towards Microsoft - yeah, I don't like it either) interface that replaces third parties modifying your computer with or without your consent. They had a better system in Windows 8.1, and should revert to that, but nonetheless, I don't actually like the idea of a browser being able to set itself up as default. I prefer myself to make that decision. Fortunately, the mainstream browsers have, until now, always at least asked for permission before changing the defaults, but that's not something they should have been allowed to do to begin with.

If we want this changed, we need to be a little less hyperbolic, because the issue here is that the new change isn't user friendly and is biased towards Microsoft, not ludicrous claims that Microsoft is taking control of your PC in some way it wasn't before. If you complain about the latter, expect your ticket to be closed with a "INVALID. Not actually a description of a real problem."

Re:IE all over again

[Anonymous Coward]

>> So basically they're doing the same thing with Windows 10 as they did originally with IE?

> No, basically Mozilla is bitching that Windows 10 has default settings, and people might not change it to the ones they want.

No, Mozilla is complaining that if you have already changed your defaults, when you upgrade to Windows 10, it changes those defaults back.

Re:IE all over again

[Anonymous Psychopath]

Launching another browser presents the usual "do you want me to be default" dialog. It's completely trivial to change your browser preference. Yes, I would have preferred if Microsoft had left my browser preferences alone with the upgrade, but this is blown a bit out of proportion.

It's also a bit disingenuous to compare today's situation to the Internet Explorer case that's literally 20 years old. I find it improbable to believe that anyone using Windows 10 is unaware of alternative browsers availability.

Re:IE all over again

[chmod a x mojo]

Nope.

Apparently it's too hard for a CEO to parse the upgrade page where it asks "Do you want to use the windows defaults or your old defaults for opening programs?". I wasn't paying the most attention to the part after, but I vaguely recall maybe even a mini tutorial on rightclick > open with > set as default from the list after clicking OK from the keep my default settings page.

Not saying there is nothing wrong with Windows 10, the start menu for instance is NOT worth a shit.... it is just a list in alphabetical order of programs with no sane grouping. Thankfully classic shell has a build that works with 10. Other than the one 8.1 laptop I upgraded I think I will keep my win7 machines for a while.

Re:IE all over again

[CastrTroy]

I actually really like the way they implemented it in Window 10. As far as I can tell, It's no longer possible for the browser to change the default browser for you. They can bring up the screen to change the option, but the user has to change the option themselves. This is much better than the old functionality where applications would constantly be setting themselves as the default application either with no warning or with a simple yes/no dialog. Making it take more clicks is a good thing.

Re:IE all over again

[tlhIngan]

Wasn't the ability for other browsers to set themselves as the default browser part of the DoJ settlement? So now Microsoft is deciding that doesn't apply?

Sorry, but Microsoft has gone well into the "we can do anything we want to your computer, any time we want, and unless you have an enterprise license you can't stop us".

That is complete bullshit. If they're going to assert ownership of my computer, they can help me pay for it. Until they do, it's my computer.

Here's the problem - Firefox/Chrome/etc ask you if you want them to be the default browser. The ability for the program to set the preference is the problem.

If you don't see the problem, let me rephrase it. I create SuperWebBrowser. I think it's so super, I will make it the default browser on everyone's machine. So I do that. Why should I ask the user? It's so super they'll want it.

If you still don't get it, then how about, I create WebBrowserSpy and set it as default. It launches an instance of your normal web browser but hooked so it can spy at your traffic and even get at HTTPS data after it's been decrypted.

Just because the good guys ask, doesn't mean everyone else has to. In fact, if you're particularly nasty, if that setting is changed, you can always reset it back.

And you'll be surprised, but both scenarios are common - many management types can't understand that people might just want to use your software as necessary, and they don't need or want it to be the default shell, the default web browser, to pin itself to the task bar and start menu and all sorts of other things. After all, after buying a copy of SuperApplication, why wouldn't you want it in your face everywhere you look? I mean, it's a great application.

It's why Microsoft doesn't provide APIs to pin applications to the task bar, start menu and a few other things. Heck, I'm surprised no installer decides to go change your desktop wallpaper on you after you install an app. After all, it's super, and you'll not want to live without it...

Choice in Firefox OS?

[gti_guy]

So where can I change my default browser in Firefox OS?

Re:If you think Windows is bad

[Karlt1]

Or try using a non-Firefox browser with the Firefox OS.
Or try using a non-Chrome browser with the Chrome OS.

Re:If you think Windows is bad

[Guspaz]

It's the javascript engine that's the problem, not the rest of it. Opera on iOS, for example does not use WebKit, or at least it doesn't in turbo mode. They do the javascript execution on the server side and feed you the results. The downside is lower compatibility, the upside is it can be MUCH faster when you're on a really slow or shoddy connection.

Pot Meet Black Kettle

[Anonymous Coward]

Just like how a semi-recent firefox update forced a new search engine on users by changing my long accepted default. The irony is delicious!

Re:If you think Windows is bad

[Guspaz]

Everything has its trade-offs. iOS tends to have less issues with malware and reliability than other platforms, but you trade a bunch of flexibility for that. I'm willing to accept that trade-off.

Re:If you think Windows is bad

[Coren22]

Despite it being very easy, not every person who owns a car knows how to change the oil, change a tire, or replace brake pads. Not every computer user knows how computers work, and I would suspect that many people who drive cars consider internal combustion to be a black box process.

Pot meet Kettle

[jenningsthecat]

FTS: "We strongly urge you to reconsider your business tactic here and again respect people’s right to choice and control of their online experience by making it easier, more obvious and intuitive for people to maintain the choices they have already made through the upgrade experience.

Oh... you mean the way you guys did when you both inflicted Australis on the world and changed the default search engine to Yahoo?

Re:If you think Windows is bad

[david_thornley]

Apple has maybe 20% of the market where iOS competes. An Android phone can do pretty much anything an iPhone can do. Apple does not have a monopoly.

Microsoft Windows is on 90-95% of the world's desktops and laptops. A non-Windows system cannot do nearly everything a Windows system can do (in particular, run Windows-compatible software reliably). Microsoft does have a monopoly.

If you don't like an iOS restriction, you can buy an Android equivalent, maybe rebuy some apps, and you're in business. If you don't like a Windows restriction, you can't move to Mac OSX or Linux and rebuy all your software, because much of it that you are likely to need for business or entertainment simply doesn't run off Windows.