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Questioning the Dispute Over Key Escrow

Nicola Hahn writes: The topic of key escrow encryption has once again taken center stage as former Secretary of Homeland Security Michael Chertoff has spoken out against key escrow both at this year's Aspen Security Forum and in an op-ed published recently by the Washington Post. However, the debate over cryptographic back doors has a glaring blind spot. As the trove of leaks from Hacking Team highlights, most back doors are implemented using zero-day exploits. Keep in mind that the Snowden documents reveal cooperation across the tech industry, on behalf of the NSA, to make products that were "exploitable." Hence, there are people who suggest the whole discussion over key escrow includes an element of theater. Is it, among other things, a public relations gambit, in the wake of the PRISM scandal, intended to cast Silicon Valley companies as defenders of privacy?

48 of 82 comments (clear)

  1. Solution: Don't Trust Anyone (within reason) by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Client-side end-to-end encryption using perfect forward secrecy is the only thing we can "trust" now, sadly. Key escrow? Who gives a crap? Our government has destroyed all reasonable expectation of trust or privacy, and it's not like private corporations can't be compelled to cooperate. The problem is, it's not really feasible to vet source code for the vast majority of people, even for open source projects, since it's a highly specialized skill set. And how do we ensure that an update doesn't come along specifically to open up an exploit or a back door? Essentially, we're now in a position of trying to decide which projects we can trust with our privacy.

    I used to snicker at people who thought like this, maybe throwing in a "tinfoil hat" joke here and there. Damn... it's not quite at the level of CIA implanted brain bugs, or thought-controlling water additives, but the government is getting damn creepy with it's mass surveillance.

    --
    Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    1. Re:Solution: Don't Trust Anyone (within reason) by Narcocide · · Score: 1

      We get old. We get smarter. We learn from our mistakes. Kids who haven't learned the same lessons yet are always ingrates when they disagree with you. It even happens to the best of us.

    2. Re: Solution: Don't Trust Anyone (within reason) by Demonoid-Penguin · · Score: 1

      Yes. The FSF and reviewing millions of line of source code will save your mortal souls. How about that Hearbleed vulnerability?

      Insightful! I don't need no steenkin' weighted decision matrix - I'm going back to Windows ('cause it's got less code, and more eyes - and the ads are cool).

    3. Re:Solution: Don't Trust Anyone (within reason) by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      And how do we ensure that an update doesn't come along specifically to open up an exploit or a back door?

      It doesn't matter if it's intentional or not, the exploits are there. Even OpenBSD hasn't managed to keep remote exploits out of their system (although practically speaking, good luck breaking into an OpenBSD system).

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    4. Re:Solution: Don't Trust Anyone (within reason) by flink · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It doesn't matter if what you are using is exploitable or not. If a state agency is targeting you specifically, you are screwed no matter what. They will probably find a way to collect the information you want. However, using end-to-end encryption with well vetted tools will keep your communications out of these global dragnets the NSA and it's ilk have been running.

      You're not going to stop them from hacking your computer if they want to get in, but frankly you're not important enough, but it is worthwhile to keep your data from being swept up incidentally.

    5. Re:Solution: Don't Trust Anyone (within reason) by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      but frankly you're not important enough, but it is worthwhile to keep your data from being swept up incidentally.

      How do you know? There are important people on this forum.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    6. Re: Solution: Don't Trust Anyone (within reason) by Demonoid-Penguin · · Score: 1

      Dear coward

      You missed the point. Open source acolytes pray at the feet of "free software" and don't recognize there is no "free labor" to review those scared lines of code. You see both closed source and open source people are putting their faith in something. Are the FSF lovers going to review all those lines? If not then you are hypocrites

      I miss the point? And you aren't painting with a broad brush (Open source acolytes pray at the feet of "free software" ) ?!. There's term for that - confirmation bias. No surprise you don't get irony, sarcasm or satire - or "weighted decision matrix".

      "You see both closed source and open source people are putting their faith in something.". I do? O'reilly? You seem to put a lot of faith in something... like the belief your "psychic powers" aren't "psychotic delusions". Thanks for your insights. They say nothing of me, and speak volumes of you. I'll go with facts instead of buying into your crystal gazing powers.

      That word, hypocrite, it doesn't mean what you "thunk" it means. You've made a compelling case that you are one, with a series of assumptions you can't possibly prove about me without psychic powers (so much for fact based decisions). And then you rant about "faith". The Timber industry wants in on your eyes.

      tl;dr on a scale 1 to 10 for critical thinking you score a -5. HONK HONK - you've won a Special Snowflake tour on the Mobro 4000.

    7. Re:Solution: Don't Trust Anyone (within reason) by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      I used to snicker at people who thought like this, maybe throwing in a "tinfoil hat" joke here and there. Damn... it's not quite at the level of CIA implanted brain bugs, or thought-controlling water additives, but the government is getting damn creepy with it's mass surveillance.

      What we know about CIA-implanted brain bugs and thought-controlling water additives is that this government would not hesitate to use either one if it were available to them.

      You can already manipulate people's mental states with water additives, and implanted "brain bugs" are only a matter of time — we're making more and more progress along those lines all the time. We don't have long to get this government under control...

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    8. Re:Solution: Don't Trust Anyone (within reason) by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      The game changed and nobody told us. Nobody can assume that they aren't "important enough".

      You think you're being edgy and clever but all you are is way fucking behind. That's always been true!

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    9. Re: Solution: Don't Trust Anyone (within reason) by martin-boundary · · Score: 1

      Dear AC, you seem to be a cheapskate. You want "free labor"? Fuck off. Free software gives *anyone* the ability to pay someone who knows what he's doing to look at, and modify, the code. What more could anyone want? (except for cheapskates like you, but those people's " complaints" aren't worth addressing anyway) That's the beauty of Free: you don't *have* to trust any Google's, Microsoft's or Apples or anyone with your security, because you can choose who will do the work and what exactly the criteria will be for the investigation

    10. Re: Solution: Don't Trust Anyone (within reason) by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Hey, stop the scaremongering. It works very much differently. You don't add value to this discussion.

      You add so little you didn't even log in and be counted, because you know you have nothing useful to add. But that didn't stop you from being a hypocrite, did it?

      Most people Can be scared to hell by a few ex marines taling them in the local shopping mall. For life!

      Yeah, for me it was all the times my not-just-a-dry-drunk alcoholic ex-marine father told me he knew a shitload of ways to kill me, when he was drunk and pissed off. Guess who's anti-military?

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    11. Re: Solution: Don't Trust Anyone (within reason) by aaaaaaargh! · · Score: 1

      Proprietary closed source software will always contain a backdoor and will have countless security vulnerabilities. That's obvious to anyone who studies how proprietary software companies have dealt with security problems in the past. If you to trust Crypto AG and the likes, go ahead, but don't be surprised if it turns out later that you've spent tons of cash on snake oil.

    12. Re:Solution: Don't Trust Anyone (within reason) by currently_awake · · Score: 1

      The name of the game is "low hanging fruit". You want someone else to be the easy hack, and your stuff to be not worth the effort/time/money to hack.

    13. Re:Solution: Don't Trust Anyone (within reason) by MacDork · · Score: 1

      Client-side end-to-end encryption using perfect forward secrecy is the only thing we can "trust" now, sadly.

      I believe that's only as secure as your PRNG. So I would go one step further and say that statement only applies on systems built from free open source software. Microsoft, Apple, and Google could remotely install/remove whatever they want on your hardware, behind your back, without you knowing it. All three are known "friends of NSA" and the OP makes a very good point. Most of what is being discussed is theater, and it is theater designed to rebuild trust in these traitors.

    14. Re:Solution: Don't Trust Anyone (within reason) by sjames · · Score: 1

      Sorry to be pedantic, but in this case it is important.

      We have every reasonable expectation of privacy and trust we ever had. Government has destroyed every confidence that it can be trusted to honor those reasonable expectations. It is working hard to undermine it's own legitimacy.

    15. Re:Solution: Don't Trust Anyone (within reason) by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 1

      You've stated what I *intended* to convey more clearly than I did.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
  2. Stock tip of the year!!!1!!1 by ErikTheRed · · Score: 2

    Going long on whoever the hell makes aluminum foil...

    --

    Help save the critically endangered Blue Iguana
    1. Re:Stock tip of the year!!!1!!1 by Demonoid-Penguin · · Score: 1

      Going long on whoever the hell makes aluminum foil...

      Pro Tip: tin. You want tin foil. Too late, you've gone and blown your college fund on aluminum. We told you not to drink the fluoridated water. (and people pay to put fluoride in water?)

  3. Ministry of the Homeland still exists, eh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Aren't you glad you voted for Obama? Such change he brought.

  4. It's Not Complicated by The+Raven · · Score: 1

    If the data or encryption key is out of your possession, you must assume it is public. If you want to secure your data, it must be encrypted before it leaves your computer. And if you want to trust your computer, you can't use a proprietary OS.

    Most people don't need that level of security... some convenience is worth the likely loss of privacy (to a point). I'm not going to worry about getting my cousin to use PGP in order to email about our family reunion. But if you are concerned about privacy, you have either already eliminated cloud services from your daily workflow or you are an idiot.

    --
    "I will trust Google to 'do no evil' until the founders no longer run it." Hello Alphabet.
    1. Re:It's Not Complicated by Skapare · · Score: 1

      simple ... just use PGP for your government-takeover email and clear-text for everything else. ooh, how obvious".

      --
      now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
  5. Short version by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    ... former Secretary of Homeland Security Michael Chertoff has spoken out against key escrow...

    So....what's his financial angle this time?

    He was the one who pawned the Full Body X-Ray machines that were eventually pushed onto prisons.

    I would really like to get a job where I can do what did and does. How does one get those?

    Oh yeah, know the right people which is always the case.

  6. Can we send a dollar to DHS by Virtucon · · Score: 1

    So they can buy a fucking clue? No, there will be no "escrow" the administration you represent has continued a policy of spying on our communications. Therefore any suggestions, changes, or stupid fucking ideas that would compromise my data's security is off the table. Now as the former VP would say, go fuck yourself!

    --
    Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
  7. The central pro-escrow argument is idiotic. by Kaz+Kylheku · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why would criminals conform with laws that require them to use back-doored crypto, when they can deploy the real thing through their organizations, and leave the back-doored crap to the honest citizens? Criminals don't conform with laws (by definition!) and so they will use whatever crypto they see fit.

    1. Re:The central pro-escrow argument is idiotic. by Kjella · · Score: 2

      You would think a pair of gloves would render all the police fingerprinting useless, yet haphazard criminals are caught by it all the time. Like everyone else with limited resources, they either catch you because you're important or because you make it easy. Heck, I bet many criminals using computers don't even know what crypto is.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  8. includes an element of theater. by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

    Understatement of the the century!

    --
    “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  9. Zero-days are not "back doors". by tlambert · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Zero-days are not "back doors".

    Unless the zero day flaw was put there intentionally, as back doors are put there intentionally, a zero day flaw is not a back door, it's just some incompetent who should be employed asking me "Do you want fries with that?", rather than employed writing security sensitive software. In other words: your average bad programmer.

    1. Re:Zero-days are not "back doors". by BitterOak · · Score: 1

      Zero-days are not "back doors".

      Unless the zero day flaw was put there intentionally, as back doors are put there intentionally, a zero day flaw is not a back door, it's just some incompetent who should be employed asking me "Do you want fries with that?", rather than employed writing security sensitive software. In other words: your average bad programmer.

      I think the implication of the story is that they are put in there intentionally, at least some of them.

      --
      If I can be modded down for being a troll, can I be modded up for being an orc, or a balrog?
    2. Re:Zero-days are not "back doors". by Checkered+Daemon · · Score: 1

      Zero days can be used to install back doors. See "PRISM".

    3. Re:Zero-days are not "back doors". by Demonoid-Penguin · · Score: 1

      Zero-days are not "back doors".

      Unless the zero day flaw was put there intentionally, as back doors are put there intentionally, a zero day flaw is not a back door, it's just some incompetent who should be employed asking me "Do you want fries with that?", rather than employed writing security sensitive software. In other words: your average bad programmer.

      Agreed about a 0-day flaw not necessarily being a "back-door".

      You're incorrect about flawed software necessarily being the output of a bad programmer. Even the best programmers make mistakes - it's not just the nature of software, it's the nature of security - "absolutely secure systems do not exist" (Shamir's First Law). Except may death - and even then it's not certain.

      Programming languages, development procedures, code auditing, and system architecture keep developing towards inherently better security. But it won't change some fundamental restrictions epitomised by Shamir's Second Law.

      "To halve your vulnerability, you have to double your expenditure"
      Increasing security is a case of diminishing returns. The mythically perfect integrity shell probably won't solve the problem either (Shamir's Third Law "Cryptography is typically bypassed, not penetrated").

      That doesn't mean it's "game over" - it does mean that some things should never be trusted to computers because of their value. It also means that not everything can be trusted to the same computer - which is just too inconvenient (apparently).

      "People" will say - but [insert OS or package here] has never been exploited. Maybe... but it's a big maybe, and very much dependant on a given point in time. It's very hard to prove it - as a mathematical proven fact. At best it's just an until-now-not-disproven fact. There's a difference.

      tl;dr it's a false and dangerous assumption to propose that all flawed software is the result of bad programmers. As a technology software development is somewhere around the same stage as the first cars in relative terms (Dig me up when the car is mathematically proven secure. Good luck with that - you may find the worms have beaten you to it).

      When it comes to the relative security of different OS incidence of deployment is not necessarily a good indicator. I'd propose that level of access to the OS, level of awareness and education of the operator, and relative value of exploiting the system are the main factors. i.e. Windows is not the most deployed platform - it is as a "desktop", and the average level of awareness and education of the operator is low relative to other "desktops" - and it's accessibility is low (anyone can get hold of it, a lot of people can explore it). The hypothesis seems valid as it has a relatively high number of known exploits in it's history (3 years after release the fixes take up more space than the original install) - most of them of low risk . Apply the same criteria to "Linux", allow for it's diversity, and the fact that until recently the average operator had a relatively higher level of awareness and education - then factor in the relative value of it as a target (higher) and the hypothesis also seems valid. i.e. higher skills and resources were pitted against it which meant, less exploits found (in the core system), the majority of known exploits quickly found were low risk - the higher risk ones were harder (took longer to be reported) to find.
      It's just a hypothesis - and not particularly well stated, I've simplified things but I have tried to take into account factors like predictability of the core system (Windows core system is more predictable than Linux), and reporting/detecting exploits of flaws. Financial trading systems are less likely to report exploits than browsers used for banking, but I suspect greater skill and resources would be focused in a smaller amount of projects aimed at finding flaws to exploit in share tradi

    4. Re:Zero-days are not "back doors". by cavreader · · Score: 1

      Every single OS currently being used has 0-day exploits just waiting to be found. So by your reckoning I guess all the developers involved in creating and maintaining these OS's are incompetent? The real incompetence is in all those companies calling themselves security experts. These deep-think groups of geniuses are always 2 steps behind those creating the exploits. They publish white papers containing postmortems on exploits that have already reeked havoc. And the vast majority of exploits today are caused by social engineering tricks, negligent system administration, lack of codified IT practices, and of course reckless and click happy users who have never seen a hyperlink they wouldn't click on.

    5. Re:Zero-days are not "back doors". by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      These deep-think groups of geniuses are always 2 steps behind those creating the exploits. They publish white papers containing postmortems on exploits that have already reeked havoc

      Tee hee. "Reeked" havoc. Do yourself a favor and don't use words you don't understand while talking shit about other people.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    6. Re:Zero-days are not "back doors". by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      Re: "Unless the zero day flaw was put there intentionally, as back doors are put there intentionally, a zero day flaw is not a back door, it's just some incompetent who should be employed"
      The US and UK security services have noted that difference and can shape generations of code, funding, standards, trade and competition policy.
      An average company thats incompetent due to hardware and software limitations gets contracts, good press and friendly govs buy in for their own staff, education and clear standards for banking.
      Thats a lot of historic power and cash to shape funding to a few US brands globally within the 5 eye nations and other friendly Western powers.
      The next method is to set encryption at a level that keeps the press/other users out of a network but is 100% law enforcement friendly.
      Over decades that access, funding, standards offers a perfect look down system into wider consumer networks.
      https://firstlook.org/theinter...
      If all that still cannot keep weak networks and plain text access try the Cybersecurity Information Sharing Act, or CISA.
      Immunity to share all data with govs and mil looking for "cyber threat indicators". All that strong encryption for the network reverts to plain text at some point in the system and thats where a company will be waiting to sort domestic data.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    7. Re:Zero-days are not "back doors". by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      You could have done cavreader a favour and pointed out that he probably intended the past tense of "wreak", which would be "wrought".

      I did do him a favor, I gave him useful and timely advice. If he chooses not to follow it, that's not my fault.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  10. one of two things is true by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Major US tech companies can NOT fight the full might of the US government. They are beholden to all those laws, secret or otherwise.

    That means one of two things is true. Either (1) those companies are no longer located or have any corporate assets or personnel in the United States, or (2) they are complicit in the NSA's spying. This holds true of all the major US tech companies. Apple, Facebook, Google, Cisco, whoever.

    It's fairly clear which of those is true, no?

  11. Cherthoff is a goddamned criminal. by jcr · · Score: 2

    Besides perjuring himself in testimony to the congress, he's responsible for billions of counts of felony wiretaps against innocent people. That motherfucker belongs behind bars, not shooting his mouth off about how we should all make it easier for fascist scumbags to wipe their asses with the constitution.

    -jcr

    --
    The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    1. Re:Cherthoff is a goddamned criminal. by jcr · · Score: 1

      Oops, wrong thug. Chertoff is the one who belongs behind bars for the shady porno-scanner deal.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    2. Re:Cherthoff is a goddamned criminal. by messymerry · · Score: 1

      Tell me you nasty little troll, does your technology come with a "user's guide"? Well, our republic comes with one too. (I will note here, one that can be edited...). History teches that when you ignore the rules of operation, things break. In case you haven't noticed, there is a socio-economic shitstorm brewing on the horizon, and it's your pathetic stinking "great society" buddies that are whipping it up. Go find a rock and crawl back under it...

      --
      Dear Microlimp: I give you 2 valid product keys for win7 and you reject both of them. Piss off you wankers!!!
  12. Re:How predictable by jcr · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Go fuck yourself, you fascist cunt.

    -jcr

    --
    The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
  13. Not a conspiracy, just practical for them by matthollingsworth · · Score: 1

    Think how much easier it is to target people if you have a system designed for the purpose. Exploits are most useful if they aren't used all the time. Every time they are used, you risk detection. Once the exploit is detected by enough "bad guys", you are put in the odd position of knowing that you are complicit in weakening the "good guys" security too and exposing them to risk from the "bad guys". By having a standard mechanism for truly legal requests, you can save the other *expensive* exploits for the cases without warrants - extending their useful life. My guess

  14. Buy a dictionary by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    A conspiracy is when two or more people get together (conspire) to take advantage of one or more people. Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception.

    Conspiracy Theorist, as a phrase, was ironically (for you) deliberately created by the CIA as a means of discrediting people who had ideas about how they might be fucking us.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    1. Re:Buy a dictionary by matthollingsworth · · Score: 1

      actually...No. "a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful." Key escrow is not (to my knowledge) a secret plan by a group. It's public. And I oppose the idea in case you try to lump me in with the people pushing the idea. I believe in strong open source encryption with lots of continuous audit. But for real secrets I wouldn't trust a computer.

    2. Re:Buy a dictionary by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      actually...No. "a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful."

      You also have to know how to use the dictionary. You don't just pick the meaning you like, and then pretend all the other ones don't exist.

      1. the act of conspiring.
      2. an evil, unlawful, treacherous, or surreptitious plan formulated in secret by two or more persons; plot.
      3. a combination of persons for a secret, unlawful, or evil purpose:
      4. Law. an agreement by two or more persons to commit a crime, fraud, or other wrongful act.
      5. any concurrence in action; combination in bringing about a given result.

      You really need to learn what these words mean before using them.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    3. Re:Buy a dictionary by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      wrong again. Get lost

      Just so I know, how old are you? I want to know what class of child I've been wasting my time arguing with.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    4. Re:Buy a dictionary by KGIII · · Score: 1

      This is the second time you have stated this falsehood in as many days. Why lie? Wikipedia is available with a handy history section. The phrase was in use long before the 60s. Dishonesty does nothing but discount everything you say as utter trash.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
  15. Encryption is not the big problem we face. by WOOFYGOOFY · · Score: 1

    Is it, among other things, a public relations gambit, in the wake of the PRISM scandal, intended to cast Silicon Valley companies as defenders of privacy?

    this. Yes absolutely. Googe knew everything about PRISM except possibly it's classified name, thus their straightfaced "we had not heard nor did you know about PRISM". Ditto every other Silicon Valley company. Do you thik Intel got to where it is while defying the US Government's request for backdoors into their products? Or do you think the government did not request a backdoor?

    There are legitimate threats out there people. Unreadable communications can be a real threat to national security- think ENIGMA and Turing. It's just a fact. But bad people has 1000 other ways to disguise their communications including all the variations on one time pads. At least with crypto you have a chance of getting the key or finding a flaw in the crypto or getting access to the pre-encrypted message creating event or the post encryption message reading event.

    With other secret sharing schemes what is information is buried in the open in a way known only to the sharers. Is that really a more tractable problem to solve? I can think of a lot of ways to nominate portions of infomation junk as being significant. Woodward communicated with Deep Throat by putting a flowerpot with a red flag onto his balcony. Think of all the bits of information flying around,both public (Twitter) and private. Think of how the problem compounds when IoT comes online. There are enough ip6 addresses to give every grain of sand on earth 1000 unique IP addresses. Do the math. Each of these communicating to any other at will sending messages. Yeah.

    Want to know where the real threat is coming from? It's coming from Silicon Valley VCs and companies they are funding. Just as none of these types, from the engineers to the investors ever really thought through what would happen if they made protocols and machines which were inherently (unfixably) insecure and then continued to not think about it, even as it became clear society was going to be critically depending on these protocols and machines, so 100,000 fold with IoT.

    It's a headlng rush into chaos and oblivion driven by the most greedy, shortsighted and willfully ignorant members of our community. If you say "hey, maybe we shouldn't "democratizing" synthetic biology without thinking through the implications and how it could be used to deconstruct society and civilization, then you're a Big Government commie. Under the cover of spittingly stupid quips like of "well, any technology can be used for good or evil, I can kill you with a hatpin!" we are creating technology that will give one person th e power to take down whole cities, whole geographically or genetically defined populations, civilization itself.

    And if you think no one would do that because of some variant of nuclear MAD then you really are a fucking idiot with no knowledge of history, people or the real world.

    1. Re:Encryption is not the big problem we face. by WOOFYGOOFY · · Score: 1

      The point is, codes need to be cracked or otherwise secret communication compromised and we can now, unlike during WWII, create encryption which can't be cracked. That was the onluy point I was making. I am not supporting, as I said, backdooring encryption. So I am not sure what your point is.

      Also Turing didn't crack enigma Poland did. That's potentially interesting. References please.

    2. Re: Encryption is not the big problem we face. by WOOFYGOOFY · · Score: 1

      Yeah sure . Turing is famous for his Turing machine model of computing. He had a full and robust life outside of the ENIGMA part of his life. The idea he never existed is ludicrious.

      You need to critically review your evidentiary threshold for believing unlikely things and you need to be more critical about sources.

      HTH