Slashdot Mirror
Ask Slashdot: Can You Disable Windows 10's Privacy-Invading Features?
An anonymous reader writes: I really want to upgrade to Windows 10, but have begun seeing stories come out about the new Terms and how they affect your privacy. It looks like the default Windows 10 system puts copies of your data out on the "cloud", gives your passwords out, and targets advertising to you. The main reason I am looking to upgrade is that Bitlocker is not available on Windows 7 Pro, but is on Windows 10 Pro, and Microsoft no longer offers Anytime Upgrades to Windows 7 Ultimate. However, I don't want to give away my privacy for security. The other option is to wait until October to see what the Windows 10 Enterprise version offers, but it may not be available through retail. Are the privacy minded Slashdot readers not going with Windows 10?
For reference, I am referring to these articles. (Not to mention claims that it steals your bandwidth.) Have a question for Slashdot's readers? Take a look at other recent questions first to see if someone else has had a similar question. And if not, ask away! The more details and context you include, the more likely your question will be selected.
For reference, I am referring to these articles. (Not to mention claims that it steals your bandwidth.) Have a question for Slashdot's readers? Take a look at other recent questions first to see if someone else has had a similar question. And if not, ask away! The more details and context you include, the more likely your question will be selected.
Did you even read the articles that you've linked to? They talk about privacy issues with default settings (that is, "Express" install). If you're a regular member of the Slashdot audience, you will certainly pick "Customize" during installation anyway, and you'll get individual switches for all these things combined on the very first screen that you'll see after that, from advertising ID to Cortana. Just disable it all, and you're good to go. For bonus points, use a local user account rather than Microsoft ID.
Something happened.
1. You don't set up a live account. That shuts down most of it.
2. Change the host file to redirect most of the bad domains to localhost.
3. There are going to be endless registry hacks to turn things off or change the way they work.
4. programs are going to be released that change things or replace features with something else that does the same thing but is open source etc.
Basically yes.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
You can disable all this stuff easily.
1. When installing you are asked if you want the default settings. Select custom settings and turn everything off. Things like Cortana that rely on having data about you won't work, of course.
2. Open the Windows Update settings and go into the options. Disable downloading updates from other machines on the internet. You might want to leave the option to get updates from other machines on your LAN enabled though, to save bandwidth.
If anyone is any doubt that you can disable all the "spying" stuff, consider that enterprise users would demand it or simply refuse to use Windows 10.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Windows 10 is fast becoming the worst OS MS has produced, Adware built in, telemetry (new USA word for spyware) sucks in your private data to vortex.data.microsoft.net (not a typo) , its clear Microsoft didnt listen to a damm thing customers were saying and have gone from gatekeepers to poachers, advertising is a disease amongst USA tech companies with a shit business model
things i dont want:
Adverts
Spyware
TIFKAM (metro, aka MediaCenter with a new skin)
activeX gadgets^^H "modern apps"
Bing (shit search engine)
Cortana (that spying bitch)
any kind of "store"
Xbox anything
Forced WindowsUpdates
things i do want:
A proper start menu
Anti-trust investigations
Removal of all phone home code
Removal of Metro
Removal of the "app store"
Ability to stop updates
i certainly wont be recommending it to anyone, let alone pay them a penny for Solitaire, corporate certainly wont stand for this spying bullshit so small companies who dont buy into the licensing game are S.O.L
Nadella needs to realise if he wants to know where we live, now we need to know where he lives, what porn does he like ?, what stock mergers have they coming up ?, what car he drives ?, dont make us tell everybody.
Just to watch the pure freakout.
1. You don't set up a live account. That shuts down most of it. 2. Change the host file to redirect most of the bad domains to localhost. 3. There are going to be endless registry hacks to turn things off or change the way they work. 4. programs are going to be released that change things or replace features with something else that does the same thing but is open source etc.
Basically yes.
Insert at the top of your list, renumber if desired:
0. When the installer gives you the opportunity to customize your setting do so, disable whatever you care too.
Why does it seem like manufacturers feel that they automatically have a right to your usage data after you buy their product?
Car manufacturers are already making big plans on creating new revenue streams with all the usage data they are collecting on our vehicles. Now, MS is taking the same approach (at least Windows 10 is free). What's to stop other vendors from doing the same? How about that new electric razor you bought; do you really want all your usage information to be sent back to the manufacturer, when you shaved, how you shaved, where you shaved? As more and more products are shipped with internet capability, manufacturers feel that they have a right to collect usage information weather you like it or not.
I'm not liking where this is going...
Because your average user isn't a /. Reader or l33t hax0r... The idea of having settings and data synced across multiple PCs appeals to enough people to warrant it being in the box.
Help Brendan pay off his student loans
Instead of worrying about whether you managed to find every little thing you needed to find to avoid the OS harvesting all your data behind your back, why not just install Debian or Mint and use dm-crypt and/or ecryptfs in place of bitlocker?
SO much simpler and more worry free, and you get to be free of that nagging feeling that you missed one of the privacy settings they buried under that "beware of the leopard" sign...
I have been going through and cataloging everything that Windows 10 does, and looking to end the communication with Microsoft component-by-component. It'll take removing packages with dism, setting group policies and making secure policies into the "default user", blocking employees being able to lock out admin simply because they want to log in to the store etc., turning off the update services, etc. It's a long road to lock down win10. You still can't keep the OS from doing anything it wants though, basically Microsoft has decided that they get to rootkit and keylog your box while background capturing your location and data files.
The first thing that admins should be doing is looking at how MS has invaded windows 7 with it's GMX and telemetry updates for the older OSs. Besides the tray ad, a whole new package of privacy invading phone-home and send your data was included in the "critical updates". There are about eight different tasks added to windows 7 scheduled tasks that even admin can't remove, they have to be manually pruned from the registry.
It takes a good amount of powershell, registry editing, and dism to script-remove this malware from windows 7, and if you were letting windows update since April, the damage is already done.
In order to use Siri on the iPhone, or Google Home on Android, you have to give up the same information that Microsoft is now requesting with Windows 10.
You can turn off most if not all of the settings, but you loose some of the functionality. It's up to each user to find the "right spot" in this balance.
-1: When even gpedit.msc (group policy editor)'s documented behavior for turning off the submission of potentially information-leaking reports to Microsoft is "0 (send no data): Equivalent to '1' (basic) on non-Enterprise systems", you cannot disable everything you want to.
-2: When users suggest removing the files associated with Diagnostic/Tracking/Telemetry servies, note that...
-3: ...on non-Enterprise systems, you cannot disable the forced updates. You can delay them on Pro, but not forever. So eventually, those files are going to find their way back on your system eventually...
-4: ...if they don't get put back immediately because Windows Defender (which also cannot be disabled except temporarily, and then it automatically turns itself back on) could trivially be programmed to categorize user attempts to delete the offending services as "malware" and restore them by itself.
If you consider error reporting noninvasive and automatic upgrade checks non-leaky and of acceptable risk to system stability, you can turn off the offensive stuff in Win10 Pro.
If your requirement is to eliminate error reporting and an at-all-times active antivirus product, then no, it is not possible to turn off the privacy-invading features of Windows 10.
FWIW I will not be upgrading. Even the most basic error reporting like "POWERPOINT.EXE crashed while editing GOOGLE-HOSTILE-TAKEOVER-MICROSOFT.PPT" is unacceptable in financial circles, and the HIPAA laws are even more draconian. Windows 10 is no longer a general purpose computing platform.
Fuck no. Looking for alternatives to windows 10 I actually installed Ubuntu today and found that it is collecting my searches and sharing them with third parties.
But at least you still have Solitaire. This could be the tipping point we've been waiting for.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Xubuntu, never Ubuntu.
And that is why Linux has no chance...
There is no "Linux", there are 100s of "Linux" versions, it is WAY too confusing for your average customer.
So it just isn't going to happen...
sure you can disable some privacy stuff using customize when installing, but windows update stills shares your bandwidth to upload updates with everyone else. you need to configure it in its advanced sharing to stop sharing updates.
Although its "share on lan only" feature seems intriguing, a cheap ass WSUS replacement for companies
Open Source Java Web Forum with LDAP authentication
You're joking, but *that's* your typical consumer's attitude.
things i do want:
[...]
Removal of all phone home code
For that, you're probably going to have to switch to GNU/Linux. Phone home code was introduced in Windows XP.
Removal of the "app store"
Do package repositories on GNU/Linux distributions count as an "app store" to you?
Excessive fragmentation is one of the unfortunate issues with Linux.
The odd thing is if they collapsed some of the projects and spent that dev time on a handful of distro's they could really improve things. Instead you have a bunch of very talented people spinning yet another 'fork'.
Flip side, I am a big LINUX fan (but not a zealot, Windows has its place).
I converted all three of my kids over from windows several years ago due to having to fix their issues too often (browser hijacks, etc).
They were given a choice between Mint and Ubuntu (two went with Ubuntu, the third Mint). At first they were hesitant but after all the time spent dealing with windows issues (including the almost-daily updates needing a restart) they gave in.
One time our youngest had formatting issues with a powerpoint in libreoffice so the option came up to move back to windows and she refused.
The only windows PC left in the house is my wife's and she refuses to move over she's not into technology and needs the chinese IME which she knows how to work under windows.
It is far easier to drop in a Linux DVD and restart after like 15 mins with a working system (including office package) then installing windows, the drivers, the apps (probably spending the better part of an afternoon on the install).
YMMV (Your mileage may vary) but i have had pretty good luck with the 5 Linux machines (two ubuntu, 3 mint) in my house.
maybe somebody should make a new linux distribution to solve the excessive fragmentation issue.
You think "most people" need CAD, Adobe apps, MS Office, financial software, medical software or supply chain software?
Most people need a web browser.
You are welcome on my lawn.
I disagree.
I think it'll be a mainstream desktop OS soon after someone manage to get the
word to the masses that they don't have to pay for Windows or Mac OS.
That's nice, but you're wrong.
Why can I say you're wrong? Because people have been saying that for 20 years, it hasn't happened, it won't happen, it isn't even remotely close to happening.
The number of ways that is wrong is extensive, but just a few:
1. It costs money to get "word to the masses", a lot of money. Anyone spending that money wants something in return, and giving away free without conditions isn't it.
2. The average consumer doesn't have any issue with the current price of Windows. Windows is either "Free" with the computer, or a trivial cost. OS X is also "free" with a computer.
3. The average consumer has no interest in learning how to install anything, or how that magic computer box works.
It wouldn't take much.
Yep, the "Year of Linux on the Desktop" is just around the corner... you keep that hope alive!
Most people need to be able to run anything they find without worrying if it will work. That means everything from a cross-stitch pattern maker to a Sea World screensaver to Photoshop (the real thing, from Adobe) to any random VPN client for whatever shonky hardware some middle manager at their company requisitioned to the text editor they downloaded (from download.com, complete with malware on the side) to any and/or every game on Steam (including ports of old DOS games) to, well, you name it.
That means Windows, because Linux just isn't up to the task. If you want to solve this problem, it's sad to say that WINE is probably your only hope. Or just buy Windows and get a well supported system with a large user community. Think of it as paying for the support, not for the OS itself. Because, truly, that's what it is. You're not paying for the OS, you're paying for the work that was, is, and will be put into making it. You're just paying Microsoft, not Red Hat... or wasting your own time fixing things. Beyond that, it's all ideology and RMS rants.
I was just about to do that, but then worried someone would fork it ;)
And most people just need a web browser. As long as it plays YouTube videos and opens Gmail, most people are satisfied.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Yes, but keep in mind your household essentially has a Linux system administrator. I'm guessing you probably maintain some sort of home network, handle setup tasks, and solve any issues that come up, correct?
Take yourself out of the equation, and substitute a different household with the equivalent skills/interests of your wife, who actually sounds more like a typical user than you. Can you see Linux working in that situation?
Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
Word is out there, if we are discussing the Linux kernel - all those Android devices for a start...
I highly doubt very many people who have an Android phone know about the kernel underneath.
Add to that they have no real control over it either. You buy a Samsung Galaxy S6 phone, you get what you're given and most people are happy enough with that.
If you were to say, "hey, you know that phone you like so much, you can install that OS on your desktop computer!", their likely reply would be, "what? why the heck would I want to do that?!?"
And they'd be right.
However, my guess is that we are discussing a (generic) Linux Distribution - the kernel, the libraries, the applications, the user interface, the package management system, etc.
Yep, and there really isn't a "generic Linux" for people, there are just too many versions and flavors. It is confusing, and frankly people don't like that much choice. It requires they understand the computer more than they want to.
This is why when you go to buy a car, few cars offer more than trim levels and a handful of options. You can get that Ford Explorer in XLT, Limited, or Sport, take your pick. A Honda Odyssey comes in LX, EX, EX-L, Touring, and Touring Elite, pick one. That is 5 choices, probably 1 too many, but there it is...
On average, people want a "cheap, middle, deluxe" option... "Small, medium, large... maybe extra large"... Linux is WAY too fractured for Joe Consumer.
For a utility machine - web browsing, email, the occasional document or spreadsheet - several Linux Distributions work great.. but there is no commercial push to them.
Of course they do, I don't doubt that at all... but no one is pushing them because there isn't any money to be made... not real money anyway... Red Hat tried years ago and didn't get much traction, so they switched to supporting the business/server market and have done ok there.
Dell has tried a few times selling machines with Linux installed, and their return rates were terrible. People want to be able to install "anything", and Windows lets you install (almost) anything. You'd be really hard pressed to find a program that general consumers might use that doesn't have a Windows version.
"3: ...on non-Enterprise systems, you cannot disable the forced updates. You can delay them on Pro, but not forever. So eventually, those files are going to find their way back on your system eventually... "
Not really true.
In the Home version, if you set your WIFI connection to be metered in network settings (so they don't download when they want), then use the KB3073930 to hide updates you don't want (also good for stopping some drivers to update), then basically you can delay the updates.
I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I can think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do.
Ubuntu, which most people use nowadays, has privacy-invading features too in default install. See those Amazon links when you search for something on your machine? That means your query was sent to Amazon.
You think "most people" need CAD, Adobe apps, MS Office, financial software, medical software or supply chain software?
Most people need a web browser.
Most of the people who spend the most on PCs actually do need CAD,Office etc. and they are who drive the market.
And since Businesses spend a shit ton more money on PCs than your average punter, whoever owns that space will control the market.
Why can I say you're wrong? Because people have been saying that for 20 years, it hasn't happened, it won't happen, it isn't even remotely close to happening.
I can remember much the same being said about Internet Explorer, which went from well over 90% usage share to more like 20% over the last 10-15 years (with much of the decline happening before mobile became an important factor).
An entrenched monopoly can be difficult to dislodge, but that doesn't mean it will last forever. Microsoft has also lost a lot of ground that would have protected Windows had it held onto them - control of the web browser and wordprocessor being the two main ones.
(Imagine if every website used ActiveX - that would be a problem for competitors. There are plenty of market niches were similar problems still exist, but for mainstream users I don't see any insurmountable barriers to migration now.)
Now it may very well be that what replaces the Windows desktop isn't called Linux. It might not even be Linux-based, or run on what we would currently recognise as a desktop PC. (The most effective challengers so far have been Android and IOS, which satisfy two and three of these conditions respectively.) Microsoft could also stay there longer by upping their game. Nothing lasts forever, though.
Stop with the friggin' agism already.
Want to learn about race cars? Read my Book
Whether "Linux" is a good or bad choice, or whether it will become a mainstream desktop OS is besides the point. At least, if we want to stay on topic here.
The original question was whether you can disable Windows 10's privacy-invading features. Some posts argue that you can (by changing settings or by cutting off network communication with Microsoft e.g.). While there are things that you can do that appear to increase the user's privacy, it will always be necessary to trust the company that you bought your proprietary software from to believe that you actually have privacy.
This is where the free software argument comes in. You can debate whether it is a good competitor or which GNU/Linux distribution or BSD is better (for whatever reason), but the point here is that if you are using software (and you are connected to the internet at any point), it must be free software in order to be reasonably certain that you can protect your privacy.
Yeah, because there are few things a 14 year old girl wants to learn more then how to use virtualbox?
What if you just don't connect it to any network, ever?
How do you stop it from connecting? These days most laptops, at least, have WiFi, Bluetooth, BLE (really distinct from classic buetooth), and maybe other radio-networking capabilities (GSM, LTE, ZigBee, 6LoWPAN, 6LoWPAN-over-Bluettoth-4.2) built-in. Also infrared and ultrasonic-capable audio interfaces with microphones and speakers. Even with the ones that DO have a switch to turn the radios off the switch normally just tells the software not to talk on the radio - which the software is free to ignore.
(Not to mention that the remote-administration hardware/firmware built into the chips by the major manufacturers can, and does, listen on the radios these days for remote-administration commands, comes in UNDER the OS, and can't be disabled.)
Then there's the question of what good the computer is to you if it's NOT connected to a network?
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way