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Oracle: Google Has "Destroyed" the Market For Java
itwbennett writes: Oracle made a request late last month to broaden its case against Android. Now, claiming that 'Android has now irreversibly destroyed Java's fundamental value proposition as a potential mobile device operating system,' Oracle on Wednesday filed a supplemental complaint in San Francisco district court that encompasses the six Android versions that have come out since Oracle originally filed its case back in 2010: Gingerbread, Honeycomb, Ice Cream Sandwich, Jelly Bean, Kit Kat and Lollipop.
irreversibly destroyed Java's fundamental value proposition as a potential mobile device operating system
Well there's the problem. Oracle thinks the language and runtime are a complete operating system. There's nothing stopping Oracle making a different OS that uses Java. In fact, the vast amount of libraries for Android out there should be easy to port. Next we'll hear how Microsoft destroyed the value of C as used to build an OS.
The problem with J2ME is that it's awful.
It's always been awful, I've always dreaded using apps on pre iOS/Android phones.
Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
Sun destroyed the market for Java.
Sun wanted to sell hardware, and they designed Java to run well with their hardware. Sun's ideal was the network is the computer. Java is/was a client language that could run on a lot of platforms, with in Sun's mind a Sun server at the other end. Didn't quite work out that way. Sun was going belly up, Oracle bought the carcass. Sun gave Java away. You can't put the jinni back in the bottle.
Java was worthless when Oracle bought Sun. They're engaged in revisionist history trying to milk a dead cow.
The tech industry, just like every industry, improves as people discover new and better ways to do things. If you can't keep up Oracle, you fall behind. And since you've chosen to litigate instead of innovate, you have fallen behind.
No one is guaranteed profit.
Be seeing you...
sony-e had a working prototype all java(with I suppose their own os underneath). basically android was a clone of that.
but what sunoracle fucked up in the mid 00's was being too slow in developing j2me extensions(and the 'all java' phone os that they kept in different projects for years and years) and just badly managing how they could be used(four security dialogs for creating a file in a folder on the sd card each with two clicks from the user, for example - NO MATTER WHAT SIGNING YOU PAID FOR), thus the market for android was there when android emerged.
as for j2me, the process a new API went through to be an approved API was just stupid. the end result was api's that had always some flaw on them or were just unusable from the day 1, like the j2me 3d _scene_ descriptor shit, which was just a wrong, wrong way to go about it on the hw and use it was launching for(like, the api might have been ok for making some animation suite or whatever, but shitty for making games).
there was a market for a java development based smartphone os all right.. they just dragged their feet on it for way too long, so that market hole is now filled with android.
they just didn't care about it enough to make sure that the shit they were certifying and dictating how it should be was usable at all.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
I've never used a Java program had equivalent performance to a similar compiled program.
Just my experience. And in that context, I have a hard time respecting the idea of lots of java nonsense on the android. Maybe I'm being unfair. But I've found Java to be more of a problem over the years than a solution. It starts out as a nice thing. Its easy to develop something in Java and easy to tweak and fix stuff. But it has limitations.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
Java was partly ruined by Microsoft before. Microsoft built in a ton of features to Java, included it in their OS, binaries no longer ran on competing OS; legal battle ensues, Microsoft found to committed wrong, Sun takes over the market for Windows Java virtual machine but not before the thriving market for web based Java games and apps was destroyed.
Java never really recovered after that.
Microsoft later invented .NET as a competing Microsoft owned Java style system.
Later enters the color cellphone/flip phone/camera phone market, Java VM was integrated into most cell phones and a Java app market starts.
Java makes a come back with some misc Java apps like BitTorrent clients being created bringing Java back to Windows, for awhile anyway.
Java gets adopted into blu-ray video spec, a major win, perhaps one of the biggest uses of Java for all time.
Android was invented stealing Java from Sun, rather than integrating Java from the official source they took all its features and made their own implementation but which was incompatible with Java. This destroyed Java in the mobile realm. This possibly helped lead to the final nail in the coffin along with html5, as Java is no longer useful at all for web apps or part of the OS for mobile apps.
If Java was part of Android, it would create a market to easily port the apps to other platforms and more developers might have considered designing software apps that ran on other systems using Java. Java's prominents would have made it relevent, as equal to Flash or more..
Yep Microsoft AND Google both fucked Java in big ways.
I still remember when the Java applet was a big thing back in the year 1999 / 2000. All web based games, Java chat, etc were Java. It was the most powerful platform of its day, allowing full apps with unlimited power to run in the browser, or desktop, of any machine regardless of architecture or make/model capable of running Java. This all went away when the legal battle between Sun and MS went down, although some Java apps remained in use for along time in places such as Yahoo Games or the occasional bandwidth speedtest.
Besides Yahoo Games and Java speedtest, Java apparently not to be used much in the consumer realm.
Java's performance and feature set was superior for many things. It provided the best speedtest for example. :)
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It's not the end of the world. Use of an interface for purposes of interoperability has been declared fair use.
But using an interface with the purpose of replacing the original software has not, otherwise Oracle vs Google would have trivially gone in Google's favor. And that is a very dangerous, because they go hand in hand. If LibreOffice can read and write MS Office documents, it's also looking to replace MS Office installations. If the scope of interoperability is limited to software that doesn't compete with the original, that would be a mess.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
They didn't make something that worked similarly to Java - that would have been OK, C# is similar to Java after all. They made something that was *identical* to Java. If they didn't want to be sued they should have made their own API and their own language
What it comes down to is should APIs be copyrightable. Google created their own implementation of the Java API, if companies are allowed to copyright APIs then you can kiss WINE goodbye immediately, anyone wanting to implement an existing API would also be in trouble, and you might not even be able to create a program that even accesses an API without explicit permission.
To come back to your metaphor just because something implements the IDuck interface doesn't mean it's the same kind of duck.
If you're not using Oracle's compiler, it's not a problem as long as you use a GPL compiler. Furthermore, there is a fair-use defense for interoperability, so it's not a problem on multiple levels.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."