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Legal Scholars Warn Against 10 Year Prison For Online Pirates

Posted by samzenpus on from the go-directly-to-jail dept.

An anonymous reader writes: The UK Government wants to increase the maximum prison sentence for online copyright infringement from two years to ten. A number legal experts and activists are pushing back against the plan. One such group, The British and Irish Law, Education and Technology Association (BILETA) has concluded that changes to the current law are not needed. "legitimate means to tackle large-scale commercial scale online copyright infringement are already available and currently being used, and the suggested sentence of 10 years seems disproportionate," the group writes.

29 of 168 comments (clear)

  1. Won't do a thing. by SuricouRaven · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Pirates do not fear prison, because they know that their crime is so commonplace that their chance of being caught is very remote indeed. Why would the threat of a longer sentence change this?

    1. Re:Won't do a thing. by bloodhawk · · Score: 2

      These are laws aimed at commercial pirate operations not home users. Though I would still argue longer sentences really aren't going to do much as these people don't ever believe they are going to be caught anyway.http://news.slashdot.org/story/15/08/16/2116237/legal-scholars-warn-against-10-year-prison-for-online-pirates#

    2. Re:Won't do a thing. by alvinrod · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Seriously, jail time for a non-violent civil offense is asinine.

      I'd suggest a small amount of monetary related to the local cost of the media that was infringed (around 2.5 times the actual cost seems reasonable for non-commercial infringement) and then a small amount of community service that's tied to the duration (impractical for some software and other digital goods, but works well for most things) of the infringed content.

      This way if someone ever does get in trouble, society doesn't have to bear the cost of imprisoning someone for something that's about as harmful to society as jaywalking. While we're at it, let's get formatting shifting legally codified into the law and return the copyright duration to a more reasonably limit in line with what was originally proposed.

    3. Re:Won't do a thing. by gnupun · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The punishment for pirate consumers should be no more than that for shoplifting, since the crimes are similar. The punishment for pirate distributors should be more.

    4. Re:Won't do a thing. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Mod parent up; even the death penalty wouldn't stop it, it's so commonplace that once half the population is in jail; a military coup would ensue.

      The point isn't to put everyone in jail, the point is to put anyone in jail.

      Turn everyone into criminals and you legally put anyone of them in jail when they are inconvenient for whatever reason.

    5. Re:Won't do a thing. by BlueStrat · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Mod parent up; even the death penalty wouldn't stop it, it's so commonplace that once half the population is in jail; a military coup would ensue.

      The point isn't to put everyone in jail, the point is to put anyone in jail.

      Turn everyone into criminals and you legally put anyone of them in jail when they are inconvenient for whatever reason.

      "Did you really think we want those laws observed?" said Dr. Ferris. "We want them to be broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against... We're after power and we mean it... There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted - and you create a nation of law-breakers - and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Reardon, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with."

      - Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

      Yeah, yeah. "Objectivist", blah blah blah.

      For being so wrong she is proving to have been remarkably prescient.

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    6. Re:Won't do a thing. by fustakrakich · · Score: 2

      Seriously, jail time for a non-violent civil offense is asinine.

      Such is the punitive nature of the petty bureaucrat, completely lacking in character, a weak vengeful little man that was bullied by his older brother and friends. Don't look for reason, it's not there. They are driven by greed and antipathy.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    7. Re:Won't do a thing. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      They should be even less, as actual physical theft deprives the store of an item to sell.

    8. Re:Won't do a thing. by BadDreamer · · Score: 2

      Oh, she gets a lot of things right. She brings with her a lot of valid observations from her time in a totalitarian state, and she sees how many of them are applied in her new home country. There is a lot of commentary she gets right.

      Where she goes wrong is in assuming this means that only selfish people should lead the world and then everything will be all right. In fact, it is amazing that she misses that observation from the totalitarian state. Her perception was selective indeed.

      As was her writing on that point; it's hard to find more selfish people than the ones she so strongly despise in her stories. They just happen to not be written as heroes, and therefore their selfishness is bad, while that of the heroes is good. Simply because her stories make it so.

    9. Re:Won't do a thing. by Vitriol+Angst · · Score: 2

      That was an awesome quote from Ayn Rand.

      But one good quote out of so much dreck is not a redemption of an elitist hack. The smart people and engineers aren't being burdened by the dumb and the poor -- they are being exploited by the owner class.

      And Atlas Shrugged would have been better if Rand had had raining fetuses. Keep with a good shtick.

      --
      >>"ad space available -- low rates!!!"
    10. Re:Won't do a thing. by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      Copyright infringement is only loosely enforced because if it were strictly enforced it would bring down society and the economy.

      For example, how many companies use pirated software? Even the ones that generally try to correctly licence everything will have some pirate software, e.g. using font's that they don't have a licence to use in print that were installed with some random app years ago. Maybe some employee is using a little free app, and didn't notice that the EULA forbids commercial use. Maybe they have one too many installations of that CAD package, or allowed an old licence to expire but kept on using the app without really thinking about it.

      How many people have taped something off the TV, and then lent the tape to a friend? How many kids recorded songs off the radio or YouTube?

      The current laws are ridiculous, and only work because they are mostly ignored and not enforced except against the biggest commercial offenders. If this ever came to pass I bet we could find at least one infringement on the BPI's web site, or on one of their member's records (unlicensed samples are pretty common). Somehow I doubt they would even be prosecuted though.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  2. Hmm.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Manslaughter... copyright infringement... they should both get about the same sentences, right? Nothing weird about that at all, is there? ~

    1. Re:Hmm.. by Feral+Nerd · · Score: 2, Informative

      Manslaughter... copyright infringement... they should both get about the same sentences, right? Nothing weird about that at all, is there? ~

      Well these are conservatives we are talking about here and they do love draconian justice. Plus, we all know what massive success the Americans have had in their war on drugs with their longstanding policy of sentencing people to multi decade mandatory minimum sentences whenever they are caught with a few too many grams of pot.

    2. Re:Hmm.. by james_gnz · · Score: 3, Funny

      Manslaughter... copyright infringement... they should both get about the same sentences, right? Nothing weird about that at all, is there? ~

      Well, of course it sounds weird when you say it like that, but remember we're talking about piracy here. Other cases of piracy have received higher sentences, sometimes even death, see Piracy off the coast of Somalia. When you think about it that way, the proposed sentences make a lot more sense.

    3. Re:Hmm.. by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 2

      Well these are conservatives we are talking about here and they do love draconian justice.

      I think you're painting with a broad brush. I think conservatives do, generally, see obeying the laws as a moral virtue, and disobeying laws for selfish purposes, or other anti-social acts in general, as a moral failing worth of punishment. I think there's a general feeling that we should (a) have a set of laws we agree to live by, and (b) have to obey them except in extraordinary situations.

      But many conservatives, myself included, believe that our country has strayed very far from (a). We are in general not governed by popular consent. The senators from Disney, etc. have seen to that. It seems to me that laws which were enacted through bribery and corruption probably have a far weaker claim on even the most civic-minded conservative.

    4. Re:Hmm.. by hairyfeet · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Not if you want a lot of dead cops.

      That is what we found in the states when they started giving out insane terms for people with drugs, it quickly got to the point the criminal was better off just shooting the cop and having a chance to escape than getting arrested and taking the time. after all if they are gonna give you life regardless, why not just shoot the cop and take your chance with escape? Hell if the cop doesn't die and you get rid of the drugs before you are caught you'll get less time than just getting arrested with the drugs so why would you not shoot the cop?

      That is all insane sentences for non violent crimes gets you, it quickly gets to the point you are better off just shooting the cop and using the time that buys you to get rid of the evidence.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
  3. America tried long prison sentences by gurps_npc · · Score: 4, Interesting
    It cost a lot of money, destroyed productive individuals lives, led to people pleading guilty to lesser charges even when they were innocent, and most importantly, did not discourage the crime.

    Fear of longer prison sentences does not in any way affect the decision to commit a crime.

    With regards to online piracy, the people involved generally do not consider it a crime and so do not consider the legal ramifications. It's kind of like if you went to North Korea, you won't be less inclined to give out a bible if they tell you it's 10 years than if they say 1 year in jail.

    --
    excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
    1. Re: America tried long prison sentences by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Abortion rights are generally considered to have lowered crime rates. When fewer unwanted children were born, twenty years down the line fewer crimes happened. This is covered extensively in Freakonomics.

    2. Re: America tried long prison sentences by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Please search for another factor, crime rate in North America fell faster in Quebec than anywhere else and they have the laxisest penalty for crimes, however they used to be a leader in rehabilitation....

    3. Re: America tried long prison sentences by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      The cause was pointed out, it is unleaded fuel. www.forbes.com/sites/alexknapp/2013/01/03/how-lead-caused-americas-violent-crime-epidemic/

    4. Re:America tried long prison sentences by labnet · · Score: 3, Informative

      Um sorry, crime rates have gone down in the US. Nobody has pinpointed exactly why.

      Lead in fuel was a significant part of the story.
      http://www.bbc.com/news/magazi...

      --
      46137
    5. Re: America tried long prison sentences by fredgiblet · · Score: 2

      It's more that unwanted children generally lead worse lives, leading them to situations where crime is more likely.

  4. Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Since when can you get ten years *prison* for a fucking civil issue?

  5. perhaps I can clarify. by nimbius · · Score: 5, Funny

    Many poeple find that spending a decade of human life imprisoned for a victimless crime is rather heavy handed. some decry it as "disproportionate" while others have remarked that its "just shy of lovecraftian in its malevolence." Im here to lend a bit of clarification and state for the record there is a very real victim in thje crime of piracy, and that victim comes with hand stitched Corinthian leather. Im talking of course about my Rolls Royce.

    Piracy deprives my rolls of a clean garage. It means I cant afford to pay my motor butler a decent wage and in turn it means the handles will persistently be wracked with smudges and fingerprints. It means I'll have to settle into something called 'the drivers seat' which makes it difficult, if not impossible to fetch the Perrier '65 Brut from the chiller (which as we all know is in the back seat.) Yes good people, Piracy could even mean -- and I shudder to envision this -- that I am forced to austerity and must drive a Bentley instead. So please, wont you reconsider sending those who pirate mellow folk sensation Roger Whittaker to a decade or more of prison? Its only fair after all.

    --
    Good people go to bed earlier.
  6. Re:Obviously by CanadianRealist · · Score: 3, Insightful

    That and the fact that they realize that the suggested punishment is too much. Keep in mind, they're British, when they say

    10 years seems disproportionate

    that's about the same as someone in the US screaming 10 years is fucking insane!!!

  7. typical by luther349 · · Score: 2

    its like the war on drugs demand more punishment for it thinking it will help all it does is make it worse. there literately asking to give someone 10 years for stealing 9$ avg cost of a movie ticket.

  8. So, essentially, ... by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's now cheaper, considering the jail time, to kick some RIAA goon's teeth in than to download one of their songs?

    There are certain things you MIGHT want to ponder before you ask for a change of laws, dear copyright lawyers...

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  9. A 10 year prison sentence is a tax on society by hawguy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    A 10 year prison sentence is a $500K tax on society for the cost of incarceration then hundreds of thousands of dollars more in public assistance after the infringer gets out of jail and can't find a job to support himself.

  10. Gona have to update their DVD warning... by tomxor · · Score: 2

    You wouldn’t steal a car
    You wouldn’t steal a handbag
    You wouldn’t steal a television
    You wouldn’t steal a movie

    Downloading pirated films is stealing, stealing is against the law, PIRACY. IT’S A CRIME

    To bring these inline with the new jail term:

    You wouldn’t knife a person
    You wouldn’t rape a child
    You wouldn’t blow up a school bus
    You wouldn’t steal a movie

    Downloading pirated films is murder, murder is against the law, PIRACY. IT’S A CRIME