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Linus Torvalds Isn't Looking 10 Years Ahead For Linux and That's OK

darthcamaro writes: At the Linuxcon conference in Seattle today, Linus Torvalds responded to questions about Linux security and about the next 10 years of Linux. For security, Torvalds isn't too worried as he sees it just being about dealing with bugs. When it comes to having a roadmap he's not worried either as he just leaves that to others. "I'm a very plodding, pedestrian person and look only about six months ahead," Torvalds said. "I look at the current release and the next one, as I don't think planning 10 years ahead is sane."

14 of 108 comments (clear)

  1. Linux and Bloat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    If you actually read TFA you see a little bit of nostalgia from Linus about how lean the kernel used to be and how modern Linux may be a little too bloated for some IoT applications. The truth is that Linux can certainly be less bloated that a full desktop Windows 10 installation, but it is nowhere near as lean as it used to be. Not much of an issue in larger hardware where even smartphones have more power than powerful desktops did 15 years ago, but there are definitely areas where the modern Linux kernel is a little too big for its own good.

    1. Re:Linux and Bloat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That's the thing about bloat. It's always used by someone, somewhere.

    2. Re:Linux and Bloat by phantomfive · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I would strongly argue that if the feature is used by less than 30% of the users, maybe it shouldn't be in the OS at all.

      Linux is used by so many different people, and by such a diverse group of people, that almost everyone probably uses a feature that is used by less than 30% of the users.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    3. Re:Linux and Bloat by phantomfive · · Score: 5, Interesting

      To add to my earlier comment, note that most Linux installations are probably on Android, or in other embedded. If we used that as the metric, we may end up removing all mouse support, since most people don't use it.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    4. Re:Linux and Bloat by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I remember a reading about metrics collected by Microsoft on features most commonly used in their Office products. What they found was that, apart from a handful of the most obvious features such as "Open", "Copy", "Paste", and "Save", the use of features flattened out very, very quickly, in terms of percentages. As such, it would really no sense to create a version of MS Word that only had the "most commonly used 70% of features", because that subset of features would tend to differ wildly from user to user.

      I have a suspicion that you'd find the same to be true of features in the Linux kernel. There are obvious features that everyone has to use, but among all the "optional" features, I wouldn't be surprised to find find that the usage curve tends to flatten out fairly quickly.

      I think there's probably a reason the most popular Linux distros are *not* the stripped down models, but the more fully-featured distros.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    5. Re: Linux and Bloat by w_dragon · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Not true. There may be things in the kernel that could be in user space, or in a kmod, or done in a driver. Linus is concerned about the code that 100% of Linux users are required to have, not the stuff that can be easily added or removed from an install.

  2. Seems Reasonable... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 3, Interesting

    As much as 'Linux' keeps being dragged into assorted rambling-think-pieces as though it were a direct analog to the OS-and-also-a-big-suite-of-hardware-software-and-'cloud'-service-offerings referred to as 'Windows' and 'Apple' or 'OSX'; 'Linux', so far as it is Linus' problem, is a kernel. It's also a kernel that has succeeded largely on the basis of being widely supported, reasonably flexible(with greater flexibility available to those willing to do additional heavy lifting themselves), and an inexpensive implementation of mostly-unix-like behavior.

    That's not a role 100% free of strategic considerations(like the current 'beating on the ARM vendors to un-fuck the current fragmented hellhole of disjointed BSPs and embrace sanity' initiative); but it is one where "ensure continued cooperation among interested users and hardware vendors, integrate promising out-of-tree developments as demand and maturity suggest" is more or less the best strategy to take. It's not as though it would even be meaningful for an OS to "Embrace a cloud services strategy", since that happens at a different level of the stack entirely; and to the degree that OS development does need, and do, blue-sky cool-new-architecture-from-the-ground-up; that isn't exactly mainline Linux's problem; and Linux probably isn't even an obvious starting point(if your bold new OS concept makes use of some sort of exotic hardware capabilities, you'll presumably be prototyping on FPGAs or the ASICs you are developing in tandem with the OS; if it is designed to work with mostly standard hardware; but do some part of being an OS differently, you can develop against a delightfully small and stable collection of 'hardware' thanks to VMs.

  3. Re: Linus Torvalds is for Swedish cows. by duckintheface · · Score: 4, Informative

    Torvalds is a Swedish speaking Finn. That's why he says "planning 10 years ahead is not sane". The Swedish word is "klok" which can be translated as "sane" or, more reasonably.... "sensible."

    --
    "He took a duck in the face at 250 knots." -- William Gibson, Pattern Recognition
  4. Re:Linus Torvalds Isn't Looking 10 Years Ahead by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Difference is:

    Corporation - We should lay off half the workforce, that would save us so much money.
    [6 months later]
    Corporation - Why is productivity so low?

    Linus - Lets get/keep things working
    [6 months later]
    Linus - Lets get/keep things working

  5. Re: Linus Torvalds is for Swedish cows. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    Torvalds is a Swedish speaking Finn.

    Correction:
    Torvalds is a Swedish-speaking Finn.

    (You forgot a hyphen.)

  6. Re:Linus Torvalds Isn't Looking 10 Years Ahead by Your.Master · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I think when people are talking about corporations being shortsighted, they aren't talking about corporations failing to plan ahead, they are talking about corporations taking actions that clearly damage their own future potential. Linus taking Linux day by day, or in 6-month sprints, or whatever, isn't really the same thing because that doesn't hinder Linux's ability to compete. At worst, it helps it sub-optimally. This as opposed to killing your most profitable product line, or laying off the people who work on your next product instead of the people who sell last year's product, etc..

    It would surprise me though if he doesn't have at least some long-term goals that take over 6 months to complete and that he's not focussed on working on right now but has in his back-pocket, but maybe he really doesn't.

    I also think the statement about corporate shortsightedness is somewhat overused, although not entirely without merit. When somebody says something like that, I sometimes click on their posting history to see if they also make claims like "big Pharma will never release cures because palliative care is more profitable" and the like to help me determine if they're logically consistent and therefore might be worth paying attention to, or just reflexively take anti-corporate positions (likewise for pro-corporate positions). And yes, I know they could believe that all corporations *except* big Pharma are short-sighted.

  7. Security is also about design by cant_get_a_good_nick · · Score: 5, Interesting

    "What I see is that security is bugs,"

    Pretty much all Outlook viruses were design issues, not bugs. They designed a mail system which, on a OS where files were executable by extension, attachments from unverifiable senders had their extension hidden so you didn't know it was an executable.

    This was baked in design. It wasn't an execution bug.

    There are entire classes of bugs you could get rid of by certain design choices. Address space layout randomization helps a lot. W ^ X, or if you can write to memory, you can't execute it. These are not infallible (there's lots of webpages on how to get past ASLR) but if we design these things as more secure, we will be more secure.

  8. Re:Stable driver ABI by 0123456 · · Score: 4, Informative

    If the ABI was stable, they'd be stuck with supporting crappy, crusty old crappy crap that some crappy old closed-source driver for some crappy old hardware requires, and unable to rewrite the kernel to provide similar functionality in a better manner.

    Like Windows.

  9. Re: Linus Torvalds is for Swedish cows. by greenfruitsalad · · Score: 3, Insightful

    maybe he isn't american and therefore doesn't hyphenate everything