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Evidence That H-1B Holders Don't Replace US Workers
Okian Warrior writes: In response to Donald Trump's allegations that H1B visas drive Americans out of jobs, The Huffington Post points to this study which refutes that claim. From the study: "But the data show that over the last decade, as businesses have requested more H-1Bs, they also expanded jobs for Americans." This seems to fly in the face of reason, consensus opinion, and numerous anecdotal reports. Is this report accurate? Have we been concerned over nothing these past few years? Remember, this is about aggregates, rather than whether some specific job has been replaced.
Always consider the source. This "study" is totally biased and funded by the libertarian--regulation hating Koch Brothers and their CATO institute. This is false and not true.
A lot of people here in the forum fear those people with H1B visas, as they are used to lower wages and increase unemployment. Instead of whining about this obvious bad situation in the US, you could yourself look at relocating yourself to another country. For example you can get paid between 35-55 k€ a year in Germany as a coder or software engineer after leaving university. In US equivalent you have to add another 7% for healthcare and 5% for retirement plan which would be today $43.77k to $68.79k per year.
That is incorrect. If the management thinks that they probably have not researched it properly. Once here on their H1-b can moe to any company willing to take over the H1-B.
Actually, you are not fully correct either. Well, ostensibly you are correct, but here's what really happens:
* The vast majority of H1-B workers are tied to Infosys, Tata, Wipro or some other India-HQ'd company as their sponsor, which means if the worker complains, said worker is recalled to India and quickly replaced. Huge corps like Nike *love* this kind of arrangement (this is a real-world example - Nike is a huge customer of Infosys). This in turn gives the client corporation (e.g. Nike) full control over their charges while their charges are in the US - one complaint from the corporation, and Infosys/Tata/Wipro does all the dirty work for them and provides a replacement within literal days.
* the second part of your sentence, "...any company willing to take over the H1-B" is the condition that undoes the rule. Kindly tell me how many companies are willingly going to take on someone under those conditions? Doing so w/o a company like Infosys/Tata/etc means expense and paperwork...
QED, 'mano :)
Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
No, it means the unemployment rate, as it was calculated during the Great Depression, is higher than it was for all but one year of Great Depression. http://www.shadowstats.com/alt...
There was no mention of salaries, benefits, much less anything specific to particular fields, not even "IT."
You've got the correct conclusion, but incorrect facts. Here's the full study. They do in fact separate out computer, engineering, and mathematics jobs, and they do compare wages, and do correctly conclude that wages are up. But,
1) How high would wages be without H1-B competition? Sure, "real annual wages (2015$) in engineering, architectural, computer, and mathematical occupations" is up by a whopping $3000 from 2001 to 2015...during a time when tech companies are stashing billions.
2) They're doing the same stupid thing everyone does with "the unemployment rate." Pretend I'm an engineer who gets replaced by a an H1-B. While I'm looking for an engineering job, I'm an "unemployed engineer" and show up in the unemployment rate for engineers statistics. If I take a job flipping burgs at McD's in order to not starve to death, I'm no longer an unemployed engineer. I'm an employed fast-food worker, and do not show up on the unemployment statistics. So in this way, yes, employment of H1-Bs can rise, while the unemployment rate for engineers does not budge.
Somebody read How to Lie With Statistics and used it for evil instead of good.
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
At my place of employ, H-1B absolutely replace US tech employees. HR here is required to, on some regularity, advertise the H-1B jobs as "open" and entertain applications for the role. The reality of that is that HR advertises for tech skills that we don't even use ... for instance, about a year after starting for the company I noticed a job opening for a developer position that needed "VAX/VMS, Oracle, and Cobol experience" ... funny enough, I happened to know a guy who had over a decade of experience with all of those and thought he might like an opportunity. I asked HR what part of the company needed all of those skills, and HR became immediately evasive saying "we just advertise the positions we are told to." Cop out. Tech staff here is roughly 80% H-1B.
I don't even HAVE a degree and I've run into this sort of thing.
Yes, this. Employers created this situation by being more willing to hire people who already have jobs, and now they're worried about the situation where some other employer is more willing to hire someone who has a job.
Before I had even my useless two year degree (it filled time, I learned some stuff) I had already experienced this, where I was too qualified for positions at which I'd have been perfectly happy.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
GP meant Depression in both places it is used. GP did also leave out a clause that would clarify the meaning and tie it to the Great Recession though. Here's what (s)he is trying to say: "..the unemployment rate *now*, if calculated the same way it was calculated during the Great Depression (as opposed to how they've changed the calculation to make the numbers look better) is higher than it was for all but one year of the Great Depression." In other words, GP is claiming that the current REAL unemployment rate is a lot higher than what you hear in the news.
Three days from now?? Thats tomorrow!! ~Peter Griffin
Yes, this. ( sorry I was going to mod here, but I have to post, even though I signed into hypothesis annotations https://hypothes.is/stream and marked this article up all over ).
There is an *association* between H 1B and hiring because H 1B is granted in areas of relatively high demand for labor, and so total hiring is bound to increase in those areas. This doesn't mean H 1B is causing the hiring, it's merely that those who are hiring are hiring H 1B.
Also, companies put their budgets where it will solve their problems. They hire contractors to get more labor quick. This article says that H 1Bs are paid more than Americans so they can't be replacing them. THEY ARE. By keeping incentives low to be contractors, they are replacing would-be American contractors.
Also they prevent companies from being creative to fill positions by doing things like partnering with local educational institutions, running training programs, and helping financially with prospective employee's education.
...
Exhibits less entitlement. Works harder because he's grateful for his chance. Comes from a culture where you very very rarely stand against your boss (in case of Indian workers). Speaks, on average, more languages than a native worker. Is more willing to improve because he risks more if not improving.
There are also disadvantages, of course: some workers might have high MTI (aka "thick accent"), there's always some cultural clash (ranging from insignificant to hellish), might not integrate ("fully" to "at all") with the company culture.
...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
So since the interview process takes 22 days on average now that means the person has 8 days to get an interview to remain legal.
Manufacturing is a bit different especially unskilled. Workers can simply shift to other professions if demand for US talent slows. Our general economic strategy as a nation is to shift those less skilled jobs out and replace them with higher level and more skilled positions.
Tech is the fastest growing and one of the highest paid job sectors and requires substantial investment in terms of time and education on the part of the workers. These are the jobs those losing jobs in manufacturing are supposed to be able to learn skills for and take on as a career. There is nowhere to go from here.
In the company I'm working for now I'm considered to be at the highest rank an engineer can obtain. This is a massive telecom/service provider/cloud company who will not be named. Every tier below has either been moved offshore or replaced by H1-B workers. With regard to my peers all full time US hiring is frozen and contracts are filled with a preference for H1-B's only resorting to US talent when no H1-B is available (this is the opposite of how it's supposed to work). In tech your salaries generally don't go up so upward mobility comes from shifting positions. Someone who stays in positions for a year or two is equivalent to 20 year+ in positions in the financial industry. When anyone shifts out they are replaced with an H1-B if at all possible regardless of why they left. In the last 1.5yrs my team went from being entirely US staff (mostly full time but a few contractors who were routinely converted once they'd proven themselves) to 50% H1-B Contractors.
We are talking about thousands of jobs. But hey, on the up side the difficulties with accent are disappearing because client organizations are filling with the same H1-B workers and they all have the same accent.
Well said.
They concluded that for every 3 new jobs in the tech sector, since 1 went to H1B and 2 went to residents, then that H1B created 2 jobs. I kid you not. It's a short article; you can read it yourself. They totally ignore the real question, which is whether all 3 of those new jobs could have been filled by residents. Likewise all upwards trends in tech, incl. wage increases, are attributed to H1B with absolutely nothing backing that correlation - only pretty graphs showing the jobs and wages going up.