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Backwards S-Pen Can Permanently Damage Note 5

tlhIngan writes: Samsung recently released a new version of its popular Galaxy Note series phablet, the Note 5. However, it turns out that there is a huge design flaw in the design of its pen holder (which Samsung calls the S-pen). If you insert it backwards (pointy end out instead of in), it's possible for it get stuck damaging the S-pen detection features. While it may be possible to fix it (Ars Technica was able to, Android Police was not), there's also a chance that your pen is also stuck the wrong way in permanently as the mechanism that holds the pen in grabs the wrong end and doesn't let go.

13 of 157 comments (clear)

  1. Moronic by damicatz · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is a perfect example of over-engineering; designing something for flash rather than functionality. It reminds me of the Tesla and people getting locked out of their cars because someone thought it would be a good idea to have retracting door handles (complete with all the moving parts that can break down).

    What is wrong with a simple slot for the pen? Why do you need an ejection mechanism? All that does is add unnecessary parts and over complicate the design.

    1. Re:Moronic by Fire_Wraith · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's also easily resolved by having a design that assumes the user might accidentally attempt to insert the pen the wrong way. If you're not assuming that your users are going to do something dumb like that, you should recheck your assumptions, because in a mass-market product I can virtually guarantee that someone is going to at some point. That's why you design the pen such that the back end is shaped slightly differently than the front end, and with just a little extra plastic back there, it becomes impossible to insert it end first.

    2. Re:Moronic by retchdog · · Score: 4, Insightful

      people who make comments like this should be forced to sit in a corner and stare at a plot of a geometric decay function until the point sinks in.

      suppose that, each usage, there is a 1-in-1000 chance that you fuck up. if you use the pen 5 times a day, that's about an 80% chance by the end of the year that you've fucked up, and it apparently only has to happen once.

      --
      "They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
    3. Re:Moronic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why can't people pay attention to how they are inserting the pen? I agree, this over designing is getting out of hand, but this "bug" is resolved by the user not being an idiot.

      What's next, a bug report about if you jam the charger in backwards it can break?

      Putting the pen in backwards is something a kid could do by mistake. Not all tech users are adults.

    4. Re:Moronic by Fire_Wraith · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And not all adults are paying full attention to their devices - especially if they're having to deal with children at the same time.

    5. Re:Moronic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Exactly this -- they need to release a new pen design that is impossible to insert in the "wrong" way (quick fix is to broaden the end, but the pen won't sit flush to the casing) OR it needs to not break when the pen is inserted the "wrong" way. I put "wrong" in quotes, because the current design does not prevent inserting the pen backwards (so both ways are "correct").

    6. Re:Moronic by Dog-Cow · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Most users are not dumb. Most users simply assume that the worst thing to happen when inserting the wrong way is for it to not work. The only dumb ones are the designers/engineers who didn't take into account completely normal human behavior and expectations.

    7. Re:Moronic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Exactly. Every time I get a new camera, I have no idea which way the rechargeable battery gets inserted. Yet I have no worries that I might be inserting it the wrong way, because I know the batteries are designed to only fit one way (or at least every one I've ever handled is designed that way). So my expectation is that if I try putting it in and it seems to fit, then it must be the right way, because only an idiot engineer would design it otherwise.

  2. TL;DR by bruno.fatia · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You are holding it wrong.

  3. LOL ... by gstoddart · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So ... "you're holding it wrong" for the win?

    Nope, not a bad industrial design, but it's pilot error.

    In the real world, humans aren't always going to do these things as you envisioned them. If you can't design to account for this stuff, you're doing it wrong.

    Like in software QA you pretty much try to do everything you shouldn't just to see what happens ... in this kind of design, you give it to someone who is going to try every thing your engineers have said "nobody would ever do that", and find out just how badly they've done.

    If it shouldn't be put in that way, you should probably ensure it physically can't be put in that way without a hammer. Because someone will do it wrong.

    Sorry, but the human monkey seldom acts according to the idealized assumptions of engineers and product designers. Which means you should be assuming your assumptions are wrong.

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  4. This is a regression by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I verified on my Galaxy Note 3, I am unable to insert the S-Pen backwards

  5. Re:So don't put it in backwards? by thegarbz · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Your car is a perfect example of the many of hundreds of ways a system is designed to prevent someone from doing something wrong.

    Modern cars are interlocked so you can't start the engine while the car is not in park / neutral, can't remove the key while the car isn't in park, can't put it into park while rolling, doesn't leave the lights or indicators on when the car isn't on, doesn't turn the interior light on when the car door isn't open, or automatically turns it off when you lock the door.

    Best of all, no you can't put diesel in your car without doing something incredibly stupid in most countries as the physical nozzle used in diesel is designed to not fit into the fill point of a petrol car.

    I can't lock the keys in my car as the door will unlock when closed, we provide child safety features to prevent doors from locking, override controls on windows, many convertibles will not allow you to move the roof while the car is in motion, and don't forget the many other features like warning lights or noises when you do something like not buckle up.

    Car manufacturers have gotten to this point through regulations and court cases. Many of these cases they have lost and that is precisely why companies need to design for the possibility that their products may actually end up in the hands of an idiot. Samsung clearly didn't get this memo.

  6. and solved last century already by DrYak · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is a perfect example of over-engineering; designing something for flash rather than functionality. {...} What is wrong with a simple slot for the pen? Why do you need an ejection mechanism? All that does is add unnecessary parts and over complicate the design.

    And even last century, when Palm launched its first PDA, it featured a notch on the side (imitating the pocket-clip that actual pen have) making it physically impossible to insert it the wrong way, and making easy to extract the pen without any physical retention mechanism (no need for complex mechanism. Just push the notch that protrudes out of the PDA body).

    It's funny how more or less 20 years ago, the first PDA makers more or less got everything right.

    And suddenly, since Apple's introduction of iPhone, everyone seems to have gone stupid and needs to re-solve the same problems.

    It reminds me of the Tesla and people getting locked out of their cars because someone thought it would be a good idea to have retracting door handles (complete with all the moving parts that can break down).

    And even, in the case of Tesla, that's still semi-justified. As it is a car, and needs to optimise for drag to increase effciency and fuel (or in this specific case: battery) consumption.
    Car manufacturers have gone as far as making the 2 side mirrors differing in lenght a few milimeters, just to optimise for drag thus compensating the typically assymetric weight balance inside the car and shaving a few liters down per 100km.
    Compared to that having door handles retracting flush doesn't seem far fetched at all.

    (Tesla only need enough redundancy to be able to open it: if the retractable door handle mechanism fails, you still have several wireless way to open it - app or remote. Or if all the fancy electronics have failed - passive RRFID. In the case of electric failure in the car, the system still have a backup 12v battery to operate the doors. And in case of 12v failure, you can still charge/boost from the outside. At that point if even that fails, the event is so rare that smashing a window in an emergency [the "baby got stuck inside during a heat wave" scenario] seems acceptable)

    Meanwhile, you don't really need flush body for a smart-phone - elevating its theoretical terminal velocity doesn't serve any sane purpose. And a backup solutions whould have been completely doable (either the notch as in Palm PDAs, or having a pin hole at the opposite side to push the stylus out).
    But still, Samsung managed to create a useless feature, with no backup plan in case of failure.

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]