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Germany Wants Facebook To Obey Its Rules About Holocaust Denial
Bruce66423 writes: In a classic example of the conflict of cultures bought about by the internet, Germany is trying to get Facebook to obey its rules about banning holocaust denial posts. From the linked Jerusalem Post article:
[Justice Minister Heiko] Maas, who has accused Facebook of doing too little to thwart racist and hate posts on its social media platform, said that Germany has zero tolerance for such expression and expects the US-based company to be more vigilant. "One thing is clear: if Facebook wants to do business in Germany, then it must abide by German laws," Maas told Reuters. "It doesn't matter that we, because of historical reasons, have a stricter interpretation of freedom of speech than the United States does." "Holocaust denial and inciting racial hatred are crimes in Germany and it doesn't matter if they're posted on Facebook or uttered out in the public on the market square," he added. ... "There's no scope for misplaced tolerance towards internet users who spread racist propaganda. That's especially the case in light of our German history."
True: Germany has limited freedom of speech for centuries. It didn't prevent the Nazi rise to power, and it arguably contributed to it.
Perhaps it's time for Germany to actually change its "interpretation of freedom of speech" instead of clinging on to what hasn't worked historically.
Maas requests that Facebook obeys the law and deletes posts containing hate speech and calls for violence. Such shit is even illegal in the US. However, FB is unwilling to comply. They have no problem filtering naked breasts out (which would in most cases be no problem in Germany, but are a problem in the US for no apparent reason). BTW the hate speech going on in FB in Germany is written by Germans and in read by Germans and it is illegal in Germany, so it would be sufficient if FB would employ people able to read German and delete those posts. However, a company with $4 mrd. revenue is unable to do that? Really?
I'm pretty sure Germany's had laws about denial of the holocaust since well before modern internet culture was around.
Sure, but that didn't cause much conflict with other cultures. German laws only applied to Germany. But with the Internet, it is common to find forums that mingle people from different cultures, and different legal jurisdictions. One of the big differences between cultures, is how they deal with the tradeoff between "freedom" and "order". Americans and Germans see that tradeoff from very different historical perspectives, and make very different tradeoffs. As an American, I believe that people should be able to express even the most odious opinions, and suppression of those opinions causes more problems than it solves. The Germans see it differently.
... then they came for the Nazis, and I did not speak out because I was not a Nazi.
OK, if you have a law, than how about you take legal action against the people saying things you don't like then, Maas. Why should other people in other countries do your job for you?
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
As times change the meaning of the laws changes as well. For the last generation or so laws that target Holocaust denial are almost entirely about targeting critics of Israel. On the one hand by equating critics of Israel with antisemites, on the other hand by equating the Holocaust denial that is common in the arab world with german or western european Holocaust denial. In fact the two are very different. the latter is denial of guilt, or it used to be that, while the former is not. In the arab world Holocaust denial is highly correlated with recent Israeli operations against for instance Gaza. It's an act of spite.
And really, I've read that 97% of the inhabitants of Gaza are antisemites. Authoritative poll. That conclusion is completely daft.
I think you missed the implication: if Germany wants to grow up and become a free and democratic nation, it needs to get rid of these remnants from its dark past.
They're weeds. You need to cut them down and drive them out.
No, you need to expose them. You need to let them spew whatever drivel they want out in public, and then publicly refute them. If you make their words illegal, then you drive them underground to persuade others in private, giving them an excuse never to expose their lies to the sunlight of public refutation.
And people certainly do like banned things; it makes them feel that they're learning some secret information that the powers that be have ulterior motives for concealing.
If Germany wants to be a democratic nation, it needs to stop criminalizing speech that the German state doesn't approve of. Is that so hard to grasp?
You know very well why those laws were passed. If you're from America, you're going to think they mean "a threat to the common people", or some vague crap like that. In actuality, they're very clear: you cannot make a remark in public that glorifies or approves of the Nazis. You are allowed to talk about them all you wish, and you can even campaign for it under a different name, but you cannot outright display hatred of another person's race or approve of the Nazis. It's exactly that. No more general than that. Given that the same law exists in America (not legally, but socially it does), I don't exactly see why you think this is totalitarian. Especially because social measures can go to anything society disproves of, while the law will always just limit this.
Now, the other reason why I believe you're in the wrong; Germany is not America, and is not beholden to implement what you suggest. They are a different country, and frankly, I don't see why you expect that your view of free speech should be enforced everywhere. I daresay Germany is far more accepting of free speech than the US on a cultural level - and if you want a reason why they have that law, then don't think of the Nazis. Think of the Klu Klux Klan. If you truly are American (as I presume you are), then you should be very familiar with them.
"Set a man a fire, he'll be warm for the rest of the night. Set a man afire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life."