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TPP Scuttles Attempts To Fix Orphan Works

jsrjsr writes: David Post, writing at the Volokh Conspiracy blog, describes how the Trans-Pacific Partnership treaty may prevent any changes to copyright law regarding orphan works. Quoting: "Big problem #1 is that copyright law doesn’t require the plaintiff to show any damage whatsoever. And it authorizes awards of up to $150,000 in “statutory damages” for each work that is infringed — independent of any damage assessment. ... It appears that the latest version of the treaty contains, buried within its many hundreds of pages, language that could require the U.S. to scuttle its plans for a sensible revision of this kind. ... Any provision of U.S. law that eliminated 'pre-established damage' or 'additional damages' for any class of works could be a violation of various TPP provisions requiring that such damages be made available, and it even appears that distribution of orphan works would have to subject the distributor to criminal copyright liability."

24 of 128 comments (clear)

  1. So, we need to scuttle the TPP. by danaris · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Like it's news that the TPP is a terrible, terrible treaty and needs to be stopped.

    This is just one more reason we need to make quite sure that there's bipartisan opposition to this.

    Dan Aris

    --
    Fun. Free. Online. RPG. BattleMaster.
    1. Re:So, we need to scuttle the TPP. by fustakrakich · · Score: 2

      This is just one more reason we need to make quite sure that there's bipartisan opposition to this.

      That cannot happen until a whole different class of person is elected into congress. With this bunch, passage is a sure thing.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    2. Re:So, we need to scuttle the TPP. by rmdingler · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Although the text of the treaty has not been made public, Wikileaks has published several leaked documents since 2013. A number of global health professionals, internet freedom activists, environmentalists, organised labour, advocacy groups, and elected officials have criticised and protested against the treaty, in large part because of the secrecy of negotiations, the agreement's expansive scope, and controversial clauses in drafts leaked to the public.[7][8][9][10][11]

      As general rule of thumb, if governments conspire behind closed doors, it is not the average citizen's best interests being argued about.

      --
      Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

      Ernest Hemingway

    3. Re:So, we need to scuttle the TPP. by PPH · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Sadly, there appears to be support across parties for this. Although many of the Democratic presidential candidates (and Donald Trump) oppose it. At least publicly, that is. Once someone gets into office, I predict that there will be a closed door session with business leaders and the new president. And (s)he will suddenly 'see the light'.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    4. Re:So, we need to scuttle the TPP. by satsuke · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That's not the way it works in practice. It's not hyperbole to state that American politicians are bought and paid for by wealthy benefactors.

    5. Re:So, we need to scuttle the TPP. by Fire_Wraith · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Sometimes this is true... I mean, look at the Iran deal, and all the screaming about that (which, while probably not a great deal, is far better than no deal when you really dig into things), and that's -after- the fact. Also, look at how many times proposals were floated and people not involved in the negotiations on both sides tried to pre-emptively shoot them down, without consider concessions, and letting the negotiators work.

      At the same time though, when it comes to a trade treaty like this, there seems to be so much fuckery going on with provisions being slipped in that are entirely about protecting wealthy interests that are decidedly NOT in the interest of the average citizen. It's the fact that this stuff is being kept secret, in hopes of sneaking it into the treaty, which must then be either accepted or rejected as a whole, so that we're forced to take it along with the other beneficial stuff. No, it's bullshit, and it needs to stop.

      So how do you do that without denying the negotiators any wiggle room? Well, for one, I'd suggest that drafts be published at regular intervals. You can keep the proceedings themselves secret, so long as we get a record of what they have so far at reasonable periods, and can provide feedback based on that.

      That, and maybe force the input and recommendations/asks from any corporation/special interest/lobbying group to go on public record from the moment it's submitted.

    6. Re:So, we need to scuttle the TPP. by QuietLagoon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The first clue that the TPP was evil should have been the extreme secrecy surrounding it. The second clue should have been the main authors: corporations.

    7. Re:So, we need to scuttle the TPP. by rtb61 · · Score: 2

      Stop with the Iran deal nonsense. The US had one choice only, either go along with it or be left behind by the rest of the world. Do you have any idea how much damage that would have done to the US image, to be publicly excluded from the Iran deal by the rest of the world as the US was not that long ago publicly excluded from the Ukraine deal by Europe. The US government might have made a whole lot of noise about it and carried on like they were in control but it was just a show. Seriously everyone knows exactly how greedy the corporate controlled US government is and there is no way that would have ever let go of hundreds of billions of Iranian dollars if they were not forced to do so (much like out of control US law enforcement confiscations, we stole it ours now fair and square you just try to get it back). The Iran deal, the US government was just along for the ride being controlled by Europe, Russia and China.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
  2. Duh! by shentino · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Orphan works are potential competitors, even if the true authors decide to release them to the public domain.

    If someone dug up an orphan work it's a potential threat to the revenue streams of the current incumbents and in its in their interest to keep it buried regardless of what the original owner may think.

    This is especially true when without a valid owner asserting their rights you can't even be sure who the statutory damages are even supposed to get paid to.

    1. Re:Duh! by jonsmirl · · Score: 3, Interesting

      This is definitely going on in the music industry. Vast amounts of older music is kept buried via copyright law so that it won't compete with the new stuff. As escalating fee for copyright renewal would stop this.

    2. Re:Duh! by currently_awake · · Score: 2

      A fee for copyright renewal would suffice. I suggest annual property taxes on all IP.

  3. Maybe it's time to tax intellectual property by elwinc · · Score: 5, Interesting

    OK, I get it, intellectual property is a real thing and needs a certain amount of protection. But you know what? Protecting property costs money! I own a condo and I pay taxes on it - something like 2% of the property value per year! Obviously the tax rates for IP need to be set at a reasonable level, but if a company is claiming x billion dollars of IP, perhaps they ought to pay a tax of a few hundred thousand for property protection. And if they lapse in their tax payments, perhaps their ownership rights lapse too, just as the city or state would take over my property if I stopped paying taxes.

    --
    --- Often in error; never in doubt!
    1. Re:Maybe it's time to tax intellectual property by Calydor · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes, when they sell their products.

      What about all the stuff they used to sell but don't want to compete with the new stuff, so it just gets locked away? How much tax do they pay on being allowed to do that?

      --
      -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
  4. Re:Stealing is stealing by spire3661 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The LEGAL meaning for copyright infringement cannot by definition include the word 'stealing'. It is YOU who are wordsmithing. Infringement is not theft, it simply is not the correct term, you cannot use it in that context without being ABSOLLUTELY wrong.

    --
    Good-bye
  5. Fixing orphan works by jonsmirl · · Score: 4, Interesting

    There is a very simple way to fix the orphan works problem and also let Disney have Mickey forever. The root of the problem is giving free, automatic copyright for 150 years or so to every work.

    Instead require that copyrights be renewed every ten years with a one year grace period. First renewal is free but you have to fill out a form on-line. Second renewal is $1,000. Fee for each subsequent renewal doubles. This will quickly place all of the non-economically via works into the public domain. It also lets you keep a copyright forever as long as you keep paying the renewal fees.

    1. Re:Fixing orphan works by jonsmirl · · Score: 3, Informative

      That's fine. The fees double each year. In 120 years the renewals will be $1M, $2M, $4M... each period. And a company like Disney has 10's of thousands works to protect.

    2. Re:Fixing orphan works by shentino · · Score: 2

      Better idea: Require registration of copyright within 5 years after first creation, and require the registration to be renewed annually after that. 5 year grace period since last renewal, with penalties for late renewal. No renewals in 5 years = forfeiture of copyright to public domain.

      Renewals require a nominal fee of ten dollars or so, but you can renew indefinitely. You OR your heirs.

      The problem with orphan works is having a treasure trove of abandoned ideas left in limbo. This method would force rights holders to keep the public notified of their rights and eliminate the possibility of land mines blowing up in your face if you want to use an abandoned work for inspiration.

    3. Re:Fixing orphan works by jonsmirl · · Score: 2

      Without an escalating fee works owned by corporations will never, ever come out of copyright. The RIAA and MPAA will renew their copyrights for a 1,000 years under a $10 renewal fee.

      At some point these works need to become part of history and culture. For example every photograph from WWII will be under copyright until after most people that are alive today are dead. I think that is just wrong. WWII is a major part of history and should be available freely to everyone.

    4. Re: Fixing orphan works by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 2

      My reform would be to eliminate the fungibility of intellectual property. Copyright would be a personal right of the creator of work, held by that person alone and expiring with the creator. Your heirs would have to go out and get real jobs, and no copyrights would get transferred to non-producing middlemen. Anyone making use of your work would have to maintain a contractual relationship with you, rather than kicking you to the curb and taking all the profits for themselves.

  6. Corporate Sovereignty is the biggest scam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    The big big big power grab in TPP is the corporate sovereignty clauses. These allow company to sue governments if the government passes a law that disadvantages the companies profits:

    https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150325/17151130431/corporate-sovereignty-provisions-tpp-agreement-leaked-via-wikileaks-would-massively-undermine-government-sovereignty.shtml

    The court that decides this is a Kangaroo court too, not a legal court, a tribunal of industry lawyers would decide if a law violates a companies profits and needs to be reversed.

    Sugary drink taxes, banning cigarettes, banning bee killing pesticides, you name it, the tribunal could override the elected government on all of these matters. Rendering democracy optional.

    No wonder its being discussed in secret by a group of people, but thankfully we still have Wikileaks and the draft treaty has been leaked by a few honest people among the negotiators who are allowed to see how bad it is.

  7. Re:Stealing is stealing by Alwin+Henseler · · Score: 2

    In this context, the only thieves are those greedy bastards who think they are entitled to take money out of people's pockets, for works that were created, say 30+ years ago, which had all those years to allow creators & middlemen to profit from, and which are basically zero-cost to reproduce. Especially if end users can do the reproducing among themselves.

    And you're right: at least that kind of theft should be stopped. If not by having reasonable written laws on the books, then by technical and/or economic means that bypass whatever laws are in place (or worse: regulations slipped in with trade agreements - like the one discussed here).

    Personally, I've lost hope that laws (or treaties!) will be fixed. Mostly because the way they are created is broken as well, with no fix in sight. Hence the "bypass using technical and/or economic means" which imho holds more promise to fix the current situation.

  8. Youtube has a movie by no-body · · Score: 2

    I am glad this is finally catching some attention at slashdot, one of the greatest fraud attempts on people.

    If they have to be secretive about it, something is wrong. A global powergrab of multinational corporations, probably a first of that magnitude.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

    1. Re:Youtube has a movie by SuricouRaven · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Second.

      The first was the East India Company. Arguably the first 'megacorp' in history. They managed to go further even than modern multinationals - while those of today will manipulate events behind closed doors and pressure politicians in secret, the East India Company had sufficient influence with the British government that they were contracted to serve as the actual government of India, assuming all administrative functions with the duty of turning a profit. They even hired their own army to maintain power.

      The role of very large corporate powers in government today is certainly concerning, but not entirely without precedent.

  9. Re:Stealing is stealing by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 2

    "People of this generation seem to think (thanks to the influence of euphemisms from the baby boomers) that stealing isn't always stealing"

    You don't seem to know what an orphan work is. Think of it as a hundred-dollar bill you find in the street. If you're a scrupulously honest person you will turn the bill in to the cops and they, provided it's not Chicago, will wait for a specified period until someone steps forward to claim it. Alter some period like thirty days, it's yours.

    But copyright law as recently amended by media corporations means that you can never spend that money, under any circumstances. Either someone steps up to claim it, or no one ever does, in which case you have to keep waiting.