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Concern Over India PM's Silicon Valley Visit

Posted by Soulskill on from the it's-complicated dept.

New submitter SAsiaFaculty writes: India's Prime Minister, Narendra Modi, will visit Silicon Valley on September 27, 2015 to promote his vision of "Digital India." Mr. Modi was denied the right to visit the United States from 2005 -2014 because of his role as the chief minister of Gujarat in the violence that rocked the state in 2002 when 1,000 people died. The visit, his second to the United States since becoming Prime Minister, has generated enthusiasm in India and in the Indian community in the United States. It has also elicited a cautionary statement with more than 135 signatures from faculty who teach and do research about South Asia at U.S. universities.

The letter urges Silicon Valley leaders to be mindful of their corporate responsibility and ensure that Mr. Modi's Digital India project promotes transparency, protection of human rights and civil liberties and intellectual freedom. Aspects of the "Digital India" program have raised questions in India about the lack of privacy safeguards and the possibility of enhanced surveillance and the repression of Indian citizens' constitutionally protected rights. A response to comments critical of the statement has been posted on the AAUP site.

48 of 80 comments (clear)

  1. FUD against Modi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    sometimes sound similar to FUD against Linux. He is million times better than the corrupt congress politicians who have been chewing more than 5 Bn US$ every year in the name of PDS. Go check it.

    1. Re:FUD against Modi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Anyone else have a problem this was submitted by, not just a brand new user, but someone who is clearly one of the 135 signatures below that cautionary statement? The fact that it's batshit obvious this is a one-sided story, (username "SAsiaFaculty" was a bit of a tell) doesn't somehow excuse the fact that it's biased. It's one thing when a user links to their blog for a review of a piece of hardware, but when people write opinion pieces and make it look like regular news, that's fucked up. Even for /.

    2. Re:FUD against Modi by floon · · Score: 1

      It's similar to the FUD against Adolf Hitler, and it's brought for similar reasons.

    3. Re:FUD against Modi by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      He is million times better than the corrupt congress politicians

      Exactly. If he is economically competent, and reduces corruption, we should just ignore the fact that he was complicit in the violent deaths of thousands of people, and heads a hate mongering political party that is the moral equivalent of the KKK.

    4. Re:FUD against Modi by jma05 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      > we should just ignore the fact that he was complicit in the violent deaths of thousands of people

      India had a history of riots, clashes between the Hindu and Muslim communities in certain regions that come with a society with still weak institutions (government was always weak in India's history). Note that these were riots and clashes, not pogroms from the top. Both communities indulged in violence, although expectedly, the majority community ends up inflicting more damage in the end. India seems to have gotten the riot problem under control since the Gujarat riots.

      India's supreme court is a trusted institution. It examined the case for several years and had not found Mr. Modi complicit in the matter. Finding him complicit is akin to finding US presidents *personally* complicit in LA riots, Abu Gharib, Iraq death toll etc.

      > heads a hate mongering political party that is the moral equivalent of the KKK

      Consider that the person who coined the term Hindutva (the party's alleged ideology) was an atheist.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      and that the party's spokesperson is a muslim intellectual... and that this "KKK" celebrates the recently passed muslim president as the people's president and one of its own... and honored him as no president before him. Indian politics should not be seen through such extreme and simplistic lenses.

      BJP is more like the republican party. There may be a few KKK elements here and there, but it is not defined by it. Mr. Modi is like Reagan, in terms of his politics and his popularity.

    5. Re:FUD against Modi by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Mr. Modi is like Reagan

      I'm confused. The rest of your post seemed to imply you approved of him.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    6. Re:FUD against Modi by unixisc · · Score: 2

      Yeah, looks pretty idiotic of /., which rejects far better submissions for stories

    7. Re:FUD against Modi by jma05 · · Score: 1

      I am not approving or disapproving. I am cautioning against hyperbole.

      I mean that the Modi legacy will likely be that of Regan, in both positive and negative ways. The one major modifying factor is that India is at a very different stage of development than US was when Reagan was in office. So pro-business policies in India mean industrializing it. In US, they meant de-industrializing it. Their policies had/will of course have environment and social justice consequences that will shape their legacy. In point, for the KKK bit, I am saying that his promotion of Hindutva is no more than Reagan's promotion of a Christian Nation. I approve neither. But neither is KKK nor ISIS.

    8. Re:FUD against Modi by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      But neither is KKK nor ISIS.

      Nobody before you said anything about ISIS. The modern KKK may be odious, but they don't go around beheading people. The BJP is aggressively forcing Hindu traditions onto non-Hindus. For instance, they are trying to outlaw eating beef. When muslims object, they are told to "go to Pakistan". How is that different from the KKK saying that black Americans should "go back to Africa"? Saying that non-Hindus are not "real" Indians is no better than saying non-whites are not "real" Americans.

    9. Re:FUD against Modi by jma05 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      > The modern KKK may be odious, but they don't go around beheading people.

      The KKK is only better than ISIS in that they never had total control of territory like ISIS. If you take note of the carnage of christian fundamentalism in the not-too-distant colonial era, ISIS isn't even that brutal - blowing people off cannons, slitting throats of fellow christians for being of a different sect, plenty of slave rape etc etc. Yes, that was all in the past. And no, it is not proper to compare the maturity of people from an advanced & prosperous country, with those at a very different stage of development.

      > The BJP is aggressively forcing Hindu traditions onto non-Hindus.

      The national government isn't. A few local governments are... mostly for reasons of populism (a milder equivalent in US is Ten Commandments everywhere). Strictly speaking, there are plenty of instances and even recommendations to eat beef in Hindu scriptures and the case is being made. India isn't like Ireland denying life-saving abortions to non-christians, because it is a "catholic country".

      > When muslims object, they are told to "go to Pakistan".

      The statements of a few colorful demagogues do not constitute official policy. No one is forcing muslims to leave the country. India is the only country in the neighborhood where the population of its minorities as a %, actually increased. In all the rest, it declined. India has special laws that give additional support to minorities. But no, you prefer to miss the big picture and insist on focusing on non-representative and colorful press reports because it suits your prejudices. You probably also think India has a special rape problem.

      > How is that different from the KKK saying that black Americans should "go back to Africa"?

      Different by not sustaining a campaign of physical intimidation like KKK did?

      > Saying that non-Hindus are not "real" Indians is no better than saying non-whites are not "real" Americans.

      Actually, even the proponents of Hindutva say that non-Hindus are sons of the soil, as long as they acknowledge their ancestral roots and a common civilization. Hindutva is about nationalism, more than religion. The angst comes from the partition and the colonial experience, not religious fundamentalism. India had a tradition of such harmony where muslims wrote epic poems on hindu mythical figures and hindus went/and still go to muslim mystics and shrines. After the painful partition, the balance of trust was damaged between the communities.

    10. Re:FUD against Modi by jma05 · · Score: 1

      > wrong is wrong

      Of course.

      > and no one gets a pass because they're "at a very different stage of development".

      Its not a question of getting a pass. We all agree in the ideal of the modern liberal societies. But it is pure schadenfreude to mock and criticize agrarian communities for not have the values of post-industrial societies. If they economically develop, but remain socially backward, criticism and even mocking would make sense. A good question to ask: how were my ancestors behaving when they had the same level of development as these people. Modern liberal behavior does not emerge out of thin air or due to cultural superiority, as people would like to believe. There are pre-requisites.

      > India is a modern nation

      Parts of India are modern and have enlightened views. Parts of it are still at sub-saharan levels. Everything seems to correlate well with economic development and education. But happily, the most backward parts are registering rapid improvements in development indices.

      > just as the USA or Europe or China does not.

      Different countries (or more precisely, different societies) at different levels of development need to be measured by different yard sticks. That is my key argument. US and Europe should be held to a higher standard, as they had more time (after industrialization) to get it right. China hard-pressed to think of a nationalism movement that did not, ultimately, turn out to be a bad deal for a great many people

      I don't disagree. I am not supporting nationalistic fervor. But one also needs to understand why nationalism emerges. It is easy to say Germans in pre-WWII should not have been so nationalistic. More reasonably, it is impossible to imagine them as not turning out as nationalists given their circumstances. No one chooses these things. Humanity has not mastered its mass psychology yet.

    11. Re:FUD against Modi by jma05 · · Score: 1

      Because they exist in different contexts across the countries. Many Indians in US are equivalents of WASPs, when in India (legal immigration by airplane selects a different class of people than does illegal border crossing). So they may support a right-wing party in India. When they come to US, they become minorities, privileged minorities, but still minorities nonetheless, and experience this strange angst of being a minority that they never did before. A party that leans left caters to that insecurity.

    12. Re: FUD against Modi by jma05 · · Score: 1

      This discussion should ideally be neither about christians nor about hindus. The conflation of hindu fundamentalists with hindu nationalists is however the same as the christian analogue. Like I said, the person who coined the term Hindutva and first promoted it, is a hindu atheist (hindu being a cultural identity, rather than a religious identity), rather than a religious fundamentalist.

    13. Re:FUD against Modi by jma05 · · Score: 1

      > not sure on sexual assault statistics

      There's your problem.

      > but India, like most of the world (unfortunately), absolutely has a problem with respect for women.

      No more than other similar countries in the region with similar levels of development. It is NOT a special case as the press would have you believe.

    14. Re:FUD against Modi by jma05 · · Score: 1

      > Different countries (or more precisely, different societies) at different levels of development need to be measured by different yard sticks. That is my key argument. US and Europe should be held to a higher standard, as they had more time (after industrialization) to get it right. China hard-pressed to think of a nationalism movement that did not, ultimately, turn out to be a bad deal for a great many people

      It looks like my thoughtless use of angle brackets ate some text.

      Corrected: Different countries (or more precisely, different societies) at different levels of development need to be measured by different yard sticks. That is my key argument. US and Europe should be held to a higher standard, as they had more time (after industrialization) to get it right. China, India and Africa are in that order. Each seems to be 20 to 30 years behind the other, on modern timescales of development.

      > hard-pressed to think of a nationalism movement that did not, ultimately, turn out to be a bad deal for a great many people

      I don't disagree. I am not supporting nationalistic fervor. But one also needs to understand why nationalism emerges. It is easy to say Germans in pre-WWII should not have been so nationalistic. More reasonably, it is impossible to imagine them as not turning out as nationalists given their circumstances. No one chooses these things. Humanity has not mastered its mass psychology yet.

    15. Re:FUD against Modi by jma05 · · Score: 1

      Fair enough. As I said, I don't disagree that BJP does have some extremist elements in it (along the lines of my insistence of comparing similarly developed societies, it is perhaps more like the the Democratic Party, soon after the US civil war, until the Southern Strategy). I just argue that it isn't defined by it.

      I don't disagree with the point about courts either. Indian lower courts aren't good. Higher courts are good, for a country of its development. I have no illusions about the perfection of process. Like you say, India's supreme court judges are good, but the process can potentially be tampered here and there... *if* it can be done without arousing Judges' suspicion. If we look back into US history, circa civil war, we find outright racist supreme court judges. By those standards, India compares fine. As for Kodnani's conviction, it shows that the process was followed. BTW, BJP is not unique for being host to such elements (cf: Indira Gandhi assassination riots).

      My main point is that the quality of institutions reflects human development of societies, which in turn is dependent on economic development. I am not blind to India's (or any other developing countries, ones with colonial legacies) flaws. I just want them to be seen in a proper context. My point is not so much of defending Modi, as it is a civilizational defense. The criticism implicitly turns into a judgement of the entire country (as we have seen with the Delhi rape case - rather than see the main story of vibrant middle class activism, it used the crime of a drunk, steroid-pumped thug, with a violent history... and his gang, and turned it to paint the entire country of 1.2 billion people, as one of rapists, with no statistics to back up the claim, just a bunch of anecdotes, easy to find in a country of India's size), and a question on its capacity to wield democratic choice, as well as a question on its mandate.

    16. Re:FUD against Modi by jma05 · · Score: 1

      contd...

      I just saw John Oliver's video. It mostly gets things right. The main miss is that people outside of India often just mention the casualties of one side. This ends up painting the violence in the tone of a pogram - Indian law tries very hard to maintain communal harmony and has laws that supersede free speech, when the question is communal harmony (the partition was very painful). It was an unanticipated communal clash, granted, 3-4x more died from one group in the final tally and that should indeed be noted, but it was a conflict nonetheless.

      It was interesting to see Zakaria also make the comparison to southern politicians - that was along the lines of what I was driving at. Some local leaders certainly had these failings and they deserve to be locked away. Modi was examined by the court towards whether he exercised his tools in time and he managed to furnish the records. The civil society in India had 12 years to debate that before his election.

  2. Modi is accused of dissing a certain religion by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Look through that list of "concerned" professors of gender and ethnic studies, and you'll get the idea.

    1. Re:Modi is accused of dissing a certain religion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Did you actually look at the list yourself? I would say that it has almost an even distribution of Muslim, Christian and Hindu names.

    2. Re:Modi is accused of dissing a certain religion by red+crab · · Score: 1

      It has nothing to do w/ it. Most faculty lecturers are Leftists, and today, in the absence of the Soviet Union, they've decided to switch loyalties from Communism to Islam. Modi's inaction in 2002 ensured that Muslims in his state never torched another train again. That's what they hate about him - that he showed that Muslims can be stopped in their tracks (pun intended) if the will is there..

      So you approve of street justice then. Let all Muslims be torched because a couple of them killed some Hindus. Isn't a government is supposed to protect all its citizens, irrespective of their race, religion. color and all etc; or is that just a school textbook stuff?

  3. Glass houses by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The letter urges Silicon Valley leaders to be mindful of their corporate responsibility and ensure that Mr. Modi's Digital India project promotes transparency, protection of human rights and civil liberties and intellectual freedom.

    To be fair, it would be nice if Silicon Valley leaders themselves cared a bit more about those things, too. The start-up, VC-driven culture in the Valley isn't exactly known for its nuanced interpretation of things like privacy, security, and honesty with customers about where things are going and how much of what they're buying into will still be there later.

    --
    If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    1. Re:Glass houses by floon · · Score: 1

      Very true but you're not allowed to say that in Silly Con Valley.

    2. Re:Glass houses by MrLogic17 · · Score: 2

      Making a moral equivalence between a riot that killed 1,000 and an app that defaults to "on" for location tracking.... um, not even close.

      India has a loooong way to go to catch up to the ethics of even the worst Silicon Valley startup. Pushing for them to advance is a good thing.

    3. Re:Glass houses by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      Please note that I didn't propose any such equivalence. I'm not familiar with the background to the riot and make no judgements about it here.

      However, to give one obvious category of ethically dubious systems coming out of the Valley, building systems that effectively turn humans into spies to report on their friends and family is shady as hell in itself, and if you don't think government monitoring of that information and in some cases harmful actions also follow then I know a Nigerian prince with a great deal for you.

      As for how the businesses themselves are run, take a look at how the employees of a typical start-up are treated, or quite a few of the big name companies as well, and tell me about respecting rights and intellectual freedom.

      Yes, we absolutely should push for higher ethical standards in technology, but some of that starts at home in our own tech industries. Many, many businesses in those industries have been normalising systematic abuse of both their users and their staff on a wide scale for years.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    4. Re:Glass houses by whh3 · · Score: 1

      I completely agree with your point. SV should care about disrupting society in the same way that they care about disrupting industries. Valley visionaries are more than willing to preach technolibertarianism when it helps them improve their bottom line but they are (willfully) ignorant about the ways that their disruptions can affect real people.

      Besides the privacy implications (default to auto-on location tracking, etc), there are actual physiological and family implications (covering Uber passengers assaulted by lightly-screened Uber drivers).

      I wish that the every engineer was required to take a course on the societal implications of their work. Those in SV are incredibly smart and if they are exposed to the problems I am hopeful that they would be able to make a positive impact.

      --
      remove nospam. to email!
    5. Re:Glass houses by jma05 · · Score: 1

      Riots, unless pre-planned, are not moral issues. They are episodes of collective madness in the absence of adequate policing infrastructure.

      > India has a loooong way to go to catch up

      Sure, it still has to distribute cholera blankets, needs its own trail of tears etc etc.

      > Pushing for them to advance is a good thing.

      Of course. How will the East learn morals without the West?

    6. Re:Glass houses by unixisc · · Score: 1

      No demand that India do what the US Supreme Court finally did, and legalize Gay Marriage?

    7. Re:Glass houses by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      Riots, unless pre-planned, are not moral issues.

      Actions, and inactions, by political leaders, that lead to those riots are moral issues. Also, the post-riot response by political leaders is a moral issue.

    8. Re:Glass houses by jma05 · · Score: 1

      > Actions, and inactions, by political leaders, that lead to those riots are moral issues.

      As the saying goes: "Never ascribe to malice that which can adequately be explained by incompetence".

      In a country with 1.5K per capita, you can expect only so much swiftness in response. If all the wealth, organization and technology of US could not save it from the botched response to Katrina, why would you expect prompt response to *anything* in India? If you compare the response of India to responses of countries at a similar stage of economic development, you would find that it does quite well.

      > Also, the post-riot response by political leaders is a moral issue.

      That is a more sound argument... particularly the rehabilitation efforts towards riot victims. Same causes though.

    9. Re:Glass houses by jma05 · · Score: 1

      > torching of the train cars in which Hindu extremists were traveling

      Why do you say that the Godhra victims were "Hindu extremists"? So that you can cast them as sub-humans and casually explain away their massacre? What extremist activities did they perform? What activities did their attackers perform?

      > who said that "killing of Muslims is a natural reaction to their killing of Hindus

      Quoting Wikipedia:
      The train was attacked by a mob of around 2,000 people. After some stone-pelting, four coaches of the train were set alight, trapping many people inside. 59 people including 27 women and 10 children were burnt to death, and 48 others were injured. According to J Mahapatra, additional director general of the Gujarat police, "miscreants had kept the petrol-soaked rags ready for use much before the train had arrived at the Godhra".
      A study conducted by the Gujarat Forensic Science Laboratory report states that 60 liters of inflammable liquid had been poured into coach S-6 of the train using a wide mouthed container. It had been poured by standing on the passage between the northern side-door of the eastern side of the coach, which had been set on fire immediately thereafter. The report also concluded that there had been heavy stone pelting on the train.

      If this event happens in ANY country *of India's per capita income*, between ANY religious groups - you can expect people to go berzerk & bloody riots to follow... and the most well-intentioned state will have a hard time bringing the situation under control.

      The hindu extremists were those who attacked muslims who had nothing to do with the train attack for retribution, not the ones who died in the train.

    10. Re:Glass houses by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 1

      The amount of rationalizing you provide is astounding. Your hip-waders must be employed 24/7.

    11. Re:Glass houses by jma05 · · Score: 1

      I haven't rationalized anything and you haven't provided any counter arguments.

      What I did was I called to look at things in historical and developmental context. I feel there is a general tendency for people living in relatively advanced countries (not just the West) to lecture people who don't, while completely forgetting where they were before they got to where they are now... just like how a rich person likes to lecture the poor about hard work and discipline. This lecturing isn't much about doing good, as it is about schadenfreude - Haha, look at those savages. It is a universal trait. US might like to lecture India. India might like to lecture Pakistan etc. Reality is more complicated.

    12. Re:Glass houses by dave420 · · Score: 1

      Providing perspective is not rationalising. If the added perspective caused you to change your understanding of the topic at hand, then the problem lies with your willingness to accept facts without perspective.

  4. One of the scholars who protested Modi murdered by floon · · Score: 1

    The right-wing Indians are proving themselves to be in the mold of the old Italian fascists. If they don't like what you say, they kill you. LINK

  5. Matthew 7:5 seems appropriate here by jphamlore · · Score: 1
    Matthew 7:5, New International Version:

    You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

  6. Re:Is there still a Silicon Valley? by floon · · Score: 1

    Is that why Austin has become so pretentious, and so full of douche-bags? Wow.

  7. Only a few uptight Indians are concerned by peter303 · · Score: 1

    Most Americans aren aware and dont care. Some who do know may think the global cooperation, the better. My company is run by an Indian and thats fine with me if he gets the job done.

    1. Re:Only a few uptight Indians are concerned by floon · · Score: 1

      Most Americans weren't aware of Mussolini and didn't care, so long as he "got things done".

    2. Re:Only a few uptight Indians are concerned by AnilJ · · Score: 1

      No. there are a couple. One CS professor and another Science and Techonology Policy and Management (but from Kennedy School of Government, hAvaD).

    3. Re:Only a few uptight Indians are concerned by AnilJ · · Score: 1

      Sorry that should have gone under another post. I am posting under there too.

  8. Re:Thanks USA by unixisc · · Score: 1

    On the contrary, these Nehruvian Secular Socialists will be competing for the same jobs as Liberal Arts graduates in the US, since they'd have the same qualifications

  9. red flag by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The new user is really a political group with left leaning mindset. They are trying to publicize their own personal opposition to Narendra Modi via Slashdot and managed to fool its editors. Usually people submit stories pointing to others work, but in this case, the user is pointing to the work of its own group and hence technically this qualifies as an advertisement. There is not an iota of substance in their open letter to bother about. If we go by that standard, then virtually none of the foreign leaders would be allowed to visit USA.

  10. Re:Thanks USA by AnilJ · · Score: 1

    You didn't get the sarcasm I guess.

  11. Re:Wonder if he is going to rape... by AnilJ · · Score: 1

    One in every 5-6 college going women in the US were sexually harassed and date raped.

  12. Re:Digital India? by AnilJ · · Score: 1

    "Swacch Bharat Abihyan" and "Toilets in every school" were both spear headed by Modi and his government. You know most Indians are vegetarian both by choice (they don't want to harm animals). Most eat meat only once a week? There is lot of fibre in the diet and they do excrete large amount of the fibre. Wher as in the US, the grass/corn is fed to animals in the factory farms with an seven fold reduction in efficiency, several fold increase in water usage with the factory farm waste released into ground water and other water sources. Yes, every house is as sterile as a hospital, nobody cooking at home but eat out most meals out in a restaurant if rich or McDonalds in the inner cities where the factory farmed animals end up along with factory trawler caught fish and most of them end up needing multiple heart bypass surgeries and suffer from diabetes and obesity which are sometimes caused due to life styles. If somebody says that is wrong, please reduce meat intake to save environment as well as not to overload our fragile healthcare systemn and everybody gets upset that they are being dictated to. We Americans are the most hypocritical second only to the British.

  13. Re:The next big threat by AnilJ · · Score: 1

    ... but first they should repatriate all their countryman working in the US IT industry.

    Why is that pre-condition? A majority of those have chosen to become naturalized. So you are saying that they are second class citizens and should not critique the policies of their government? They have the same rights as any born citizen unless they are stripped of their citizenship. I don't wanting to improve the conditions of their country - even if it is not the country they are born in - is not treason. They are doing their duty as conscientious citizens.

  14. Re:Not one engineer or scientist??? by AnilJ · · Score: 1

    There are at leat two from STEM - one CS professor and another Science and Technology Policy and Management (but from Kennedy School of Government, hAvaD).

  15. Narendra Modi will pick RSS; by NewYork · · Score: 1

    Choose between India and RSS; Narendra Modi will pick RSS;

    Modi is just promoting Brahmin/Bania hegemony in India; He never had any plans for development/prosperity of India;
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    Brahmin population is less than 3% in India; Check the number of Brahmin in Narendra Modi regime;

    Parrikar is Brahmin; Doval is Brahmin; Gadkari is Brahmin; Sumitra is Brahmin; Sushma is Brahmin; Jaitely is Brahmin; Smriti is Brahmin; Nirmala is Brahmin; Suresh Prabhu is Brahmin; Ravi Shankar is Brahmin; Kalraj Mishra is Brahmin;Maneka is Brahmin; Ananth Kumar is Brahmin;Anant Geete is Brahmin;Harsh Vardhan is Brahmin;Nadda is Brahmin;Jayant Sinha is Brahmin; Dharmendra Pradhan is Brahmin;Piyush Goyal is Brahmin; Mahesh Sharma is Brahmin;Manoj Sinha is Brahmin;
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    --
    Casteism