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Testing Old Tapes To Save Them

JMarshall writes: Recordings on old audio tapes won't be worth much in another 20 years, and some are already too degraded to play. A team including members from the Library of Congress report that infrared spectroscopy can noninvasively separate magnetic tapes that can still be played from those that can't, without risking the tapes by sticking them in a player. Unplayable tapes can sometimes be rescued by heating, which can make them playable for long enough to digitize. This method could help archivists identify which tapes need special handling before they get any worse.

62 comments

  1. So finally.. by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 2

    We can read back the hippie mix tape Richard Nixon prepared for Howard Hunt.

    --
    I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
  2. Digitize them so they can be DRMed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No thanks, I'll stick with my analog hole.

    1. Re:Digitize them so they can be DRMed by sound+vision · · Score: 1

      Bruh. If these tapes don't get digitized at some point, they will deteriorate to the point of being destroyed.

    2. Re:Digitize them so they can be DRMed by davester666 · · Score: 2

      This one could be read, if we had a working tape deck.
      Next
      This one can't be read anymore. In the trash bin.
      Next.
      This one could be read, if we had a working tape deck.
      Next
      This one can't be read anymore. In the trash bin. ...
      repeat, cycling through all the tapes over and over, until none are left.

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    3. Re:Digitize them so they can be DRMed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, I'm glad you're not an archivist.

  3. To What Medium by jmcharry · · Score: 1

    What digital medium is presumed to be readable 20 years hence?

    1. Re: To What Medium by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lightly used floppy disks still work.

    2. Re: To What Medium by kheldan · · Score: 1

      Lightly used floppy disks still work.

      Perhaps, but good bloody luck trying to find a floppy drive that is high enough quality to actually have head alignment accurate enough to read the aforementioned 'lightly used floppy disk'. Even at their peak there was never any guarantee that a floppy formatted in one drive would work worth a damn in a different drive, especially the further in towards the hub you went.

      --
      Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    3. Re:To What Medium by ArchieBunker · · Score: 1

      Digital tape!

      --
      Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
    4. Re: To What Medium by mrbester · · Score: 1

      Long before people grumbled about how much space was "lost" when you formatted a hard drive, formatting 5 1/4 floppies cost you over 30%...

      --
      "Wait. Something's happening. It's opening up! My God, it's full of apricots!"
    5. Re:To What Medium by ledow · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Memory chips.

      The ROM's on early-80's consoles are still, on the whole, perfectly readable (as evidenced by MAME), and they don't even TRY to use error correcting codes to ensure resiliency.

      I have CompactFlash of some vintage and it's all still perfectly readable. Even hard drives are quite readable if stored properly and not live for a long time.

      I imagine if you really wanted to make something last 20 years and still be readable, a basic EEPROM with I2C-like serial interface will be readable, and you could probably describe a circuit/timing to read from it on the casing of the chip itself with one diagram.

    6. Re:To What Medium by geekmux · · Score: 2

      What digital medium is presumed to be readable 20 years hence?

      The cloud of course. It is the end-all-be-all. Haven't you heard?

    7. Re:To What Medium by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      considering cave paintings, binary code in bedrock would last sometime :D

    8. Re:To What Medium by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pressed CD / DVD Roms seem to have a decent shelf life. Of course, building a die is cost prohibitive, and it is possible to store them in adverse conditions that eventually destroy the silver layer (but the depth could theoretically still be probed by other means, I imagine)

      Burnt CD Roms have issues with the dye decomposing. Some of them won't even last ten years, while others might make it to the 20 year mark.

    9. Re:To What Medium by tlhIngan · · Score: 2

      Memory chips.

      The ROM's on early-80's consoles are still, on the whole, perfectly readable (as evidenced by MAME), and they don't even TRY to use error correcting codes to ensure resiliency.

      I have CompactFlash of some vintage and it's all still perfectly readable. Even hard drives are quite readable if stored properly and not live for a long time.

      I imagine if you really wanted to make something last 20 years and still be readable, a basic EEPROM with I2C-like serial interface will be readable, and you could probably describe a circuit/timing to read from it on the casing of the chip itself with one diagram.

      Not really.

      ROMs are readable because the data is literally part of the circuit - either it's mask-programmed (generally the case) in which case the actual circuit connections are physically embedded in the silicon, or it's OTP, which uses fuses that are blown to set the state of the memory.

      Flash memory though is typically only guaranteed for 10 years power off retention. Your CF card works because you probably plug it in and access it, If you have a chip you programmed, 10 years from now when you rediscover it, its contents may or may not be readable. In this case, what happens is the data is stored by trapped electrons, and over time, those electrons escape the floating gate (remember, there's an excess of them on the gate, and quantum mechanics was used to tunnel them onto the gate, and on NAND, quantum mechanics is also used to tunnel them off. Well, it's possible over time for the charge to "leak out" by more quantum mechanical tunnelling.

    10. Re:To What Medium by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Aha! Building a die is cost prohibitive for pressed CDs. How about using 3-D printers for this?

    11. Re:To What Medium by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      It doesn't need to. Once you have the data in digital form you can keep migrating it to whatever the best storage device of the day is without incurring any further quality loss.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    12. Re:To What Medium by The+Good+Reverend · · Score: 1

      100% agree. Regular backup and migration is the way to go, preferably with the data in multiple places. This is daunting for large-scale applications, but if the data is that important, it's worth doing right.

    13. Re:To What Medium by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't just store it in a vault and forget it. You migrate it to the next generation. I have data today that began life in 1983 on a Commodore VIC-20 datasette. From there it went to a C64 >> Amiga (by null modem) >> PC (again null modem) >> Mac (by floppies and external hard drives).

      Most of it had to go by ASCII, so a little bit of reformatting and bingo, I still have all the reports and research papers I did at my fingertips (and for sale to the highest bidder). What didn't go by ASCII had to be converted either before or after, not a problem for me though.

    14. Re:To What Medium by niftymitch · · Score: 1

      Pressed CD / DVD Roms seem to have a decent shelf life. Of course, building a die is cost prohibitive, and it is possible to store them in adverse conditions that eventually destroy the silver layer (but the depth could theoretically still be probed by other means, I imagine)

      Burnt CD Roms have issues with the dye decomposing. Some of them won't even last ten years, while others might make it to the 20 year mark.

      There is a Blu-Ray tech that boasts +200 year life expectancy. One example:
      "Verbatim M-Disc optical media is the new standard for digital archival storage. Unlike traditional optical media, which utilize dyes that can break down over time, data stored on an M-Disc is engraved on a patented inorganic write layer – it will not fade or deteriorate. This unique engraving process renders these archival grade discs practically impervious to environmental exposure, including light, temperature and humidity."

      --
      Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't. Mark Twain.
    15. Re:To What Medium by LunaticTippy · · Score: 1

      Print it using MIME on paper, OCR and convert back to digital at your convenience. With the right storage conditions, paper and toner it should be readable in 100 years. Extra luddite points for using a daisy-wheel printer.

      --
      Man, you really need that seminar!
    16. Re:To What Medium by _merlin · · Score: 4, Informative

      The ROM's on early-80's consoles are still, on the whole, perfectly readable (as evidenced by MAME), and they don't even TRY to use error correcting codes to ensure resiliency.

      As a MAME developer, I have the sad duty to inform you that this, sadly, is not the case. ROMs for early video games are gradually succumbing to bitrot. EPROMs used in arcade games eventually leak their trapped charges, and mask layers oxidise in mask ROMs. Flash ROMs from newer arcade games can degrade in as little as 15 years. If you're lucky you can get a good read by heating the chip up or cooling it down. But in many cases the data is permanently lost.

    17. Re:To What Medium by marciot · · Score: 1

      What digital medium is presumed to be readable 20 years hence?

      Etch QR codes on stone tablets.

    18. Re: To What Medium by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Digital media makes standard paper books look like NORAD by comparison. The so-called data in books can survive hundreds of years whereas lots of digital media such as hard drives, cd-roms, and DVDs has a hard time surviving more than 10 years if it is used extensively. And to use any of it you have to have electricity running on a drive as long as you do. I really fear a future period where enormous amounts of knowledge disappears because too many people store too much stuff digitally.

    19. Re: To What Medium by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Won't degrade or deteriorate so long as you put them in a wine cellar. Try storing them on a bookcase that gets afternoon sunlight for more than an hour a day and poppo!!!!!!

    20. Re:To What Medium by wildstoo · · Score: 1

      Yep, I had a batch of DVD-R in the early 2000s that didn't even last 4 years in normal storage. Kept in cases in a cupboard with no great humidity or temperature variation, the dye still degraded incredibly fast, and more than 50% of the data was unreadable when I checked them.

      I can't remember the name of the brand off the top of my head (I just remember the discs were bright orange on top), but I'm pretty sure they used Ritek dye which was notoriously awful at the time.

      After that, I switched to Taiyo Yuden discs from Japan, bought from reputable sources. Much more expensive, certainly, but much more reliable and durable too. Taiyo Yuden claim they'll last 100 years if they're not mishandled. I wouldn't touch any other brand now.

    21. Re:To What Medium by nintendoeats · · Score: 1

      This is disconcerting. I have a very large collection (1500+) of games for all manner of consoles. Do you have any suggestions for how I might maintain them for as long as possible?

    22. Re:To What Medium by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Get a USB cartridge reader and rip them.

    23. Re: To What Medium by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It might help if you actually read his post instead of posting a knee-jerk reaction. Sunlight only damages discs that use dyes and he explicitly stated that those Blu-Ray discs are engraved.

    24. Re:To What Medium by _merlin · · Score: 1

      I think the best bet is spinning disks with some filesystem that stores data redundantly and does block-level checksums (e.g. ZFS). Then you need to routinely buy new disks to replace the disks, copy your data across, and verify the new copy. Not just when they fail, on a regular schedule every five years or so.

    25. Re: To What Medium by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apple ][c with floppies, still readable. Though not all. Drive still works.

    26. Re:To What Medium by nintendoeats · · Score: 1

      So your saying rip them to start with. That sounds ideal, but there is no way I can afford to do it. Apart from anything else, I'd need 20 different cartridge readers. thanks anyway.

    27. Re:To What Medium by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Then just download the ROMs for your games and if anyone ever asks, just say you ripped them yourself.

    28. Re:To What Medium by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

      What digital medium is presumed to be readable 20 years hence?

      Paper tape

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    29. Re: To What Medium by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

      Lightly used floppy disks still work.

      Perhaps, but good bloody luck trying to find a floppy drive that is high enough quality to actually have head alignment accurate enough to read the aforementioned 'lightly used floppy disk'. Even at their peak there was never any guarantee that a floppy formatted in one drive would work worth a damn in a different drive, especially the further in towards the hub you went.

      It's easy to align a floppy disk drive. Especially if you have an alignment disk.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    30. Re:To What Medium by Agripa · · Score: 1

      The ROM's on early-80's consoles are still, on the whole, perfectly readable (as evidenced by MAME), and they don't even TRY to use error correcting codes to ensure resiliency.

      Not if they are Mostek mask ROMs with the 2763 pinout. In test equipment and arcade machine those all seem to be failing. Anti-fuse programmable logic from that era is also failing. The fuses seem to be "regrowing".

    31. Re:To What Medium by Agripa · · Score: 1

      For test equipment the solution is to either copy the ROM into a pin compatible EPROM or convert the pinout to 2764 and use a modern EPROM.

  4. If you have a problem, if no one else can help, a by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire the A-Team.

    They are wanted in the UK.

    There rap sheet is a long list of 10 year sentence for copyright for each song / piece of work.

  5. Help me Obi Wan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You're my only hope !

  6. SOS by turkeydance · · Score: 1

    Save Our Sextapes

    1. Re:SOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, some of the tapes at the National Archives are sex tapes. The FBI surveillance tapes of Martin Luther King Jr. contain recordings of King and various young women in his motel room. Or so they say, anyhow. We won't know for sure until the tapes are released to the public in 2027 (by which time they'll be beyond recovery).

  7. Feeling Old by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

    Nothing like nostalgia of tape media to make one feel old.

    --
    Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    1. Re:Feeling Old by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nothing beats looking in a mirror.

    2. Re:Feeling Old by hawkfish · · Score: 1

      Nothing like nostalgia of tape media to make one feel old.

      Except maybe vinyl!

      --
      You will not drink with us, but you would taste our steel? - Walter Matthau, The Pirates
    3. Re:Feeling Old by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nothing like nostalgia of tape media to make one feel old.

      Except maybe vinyl!

      Scratch that.

  8. Minimally Invasive. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    The abstract actually says "Minimally Invasive," not Non-Invasive (the goal) Aparently the technique analyses small sections of tape to see if the physical media has degraded. Not sure how that tells us *anything* about the magnetic state of the media.

  9. Read the tapes without unreeling them? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting

    Clever people have used scanners to take a picture of a phonograph record and then play the image of the grooves.

    They have smart phones that can fake swiping a mag stripe card, just by holding it up near the reader.

    I wouldn't be surprised if some clever person could figure out a way of playing the sound recorded on the tape without actually having to unwind the tape.

    1. Re:Read the tapes without unreeling them? by hawguy · · Score: 1

      Clever people have used scanners to take a picture of a phonograph record and then play the image of the grooves.

      They have smart phones that can fake swiping a mag stripe card, just by holding it up near the reader.

      What smart phone can do that? (unless you mean contactless payment, but that has nothing to do with magstripe cards

      I wouldn't be surprised if some clever person could figure out a way of playing the sound recorded on the tape without actually having to unwind the tape.

      I'd be *very* surprised, since layer upon layer of magnetic tape is going to appear as noise to any technology that tries to read it without unwinding the tape.

    2. Re:Read the tapes without unreeling them? by marciot · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't be surprised if some clever person could figure out a way of playing the sound recorded on the tape without actually having to unwind the tape.

      You'd need something that can look in between the tape layers. I'd start with an MRI machine.

    3. Re:Read the tapes without unreeling them? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What smart phone can do that? (unless you mean contactless payment, but that has nothing to do with magstripe cards

      Here you go...

      http://blogs.creditcards.com/2...

    4. Re:Read the tapes without unreeling them? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...which requires a specialized hardware attachment to work.

  10. Obligatory link to William Basinski by Incadenza · · Score: 1

    One cannot discuss tape degradation with mentioning The Disintegration Loops by William Basinski.

  11. So THAT'S why! by grep+-v+'.*'+* · · Score: 2

    Recordings on old audio tapes won't be worth much in another 20 years, and some are already too degraded to play.

    Looks like the RIAA was right all along -- THAT's why you should rebuy all of your music, because soon your original license to listen will have vanished.

    "The palest ink is better than the best memory" -- but not when the ink seperates from the paper!


    Wait -- does that mean my 8-track RAID array is in danger!?!

    --
    If the universe is someone's simulation -- does that mean the stars are just stuck pixels?
    1. Re:So THAT'S why! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Buy vinyl it lasts the longest. Recall that 78s from over 100 years ago are often playable. 50-60 year old 33s still play well and 33 rpm players are still made. In particular if you keep the vinyl in a cool place.

    2. Re:So THAT'S why! by CanEHdian · · Score: 2
      You can listen to sound recovered from old 78 r.p.m. shellac discs at the Library of Congress National Jukebox... but you cannot download them! Recordings made well over 100 years ago are still under copyright according to the LoC:

      Rights & Access This recording is protected by state copyright laws in the United States. The Library of Congress has obtained a license from rights holders to offer it as streamed audio only. Downloading is not permitted. The authorization of rights holders of the recording is required in order to obtain a copy of the recording. Contact jukebox@loc.gov for more information.

      Of course the question who these "rights holders" are, and if anything was given in return for this "license", is unknown.

      --
      When the copyright term is "forever minus a day", live every day like it's the last.
    3. Re:So THAT'S why! by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1

      Buy vinyl it lasts the longest. Recall that 78s from over 100 years ago are often playable.

      And there are new turntables that play vinyl (and other disk) recordings without touching the groves, using laser light rather than a needle.

      --
      Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  12. Magnetic state not a major issue. by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1

    The magnetic state is not likely to be a significant issue,provided the tape is not exposed to excessive heat or strong magnetic fields (like from lightning currents in a nearby structural element or having the storage box sitting on the floor next to an industrial-scale waxer's drive motor).

    While really small domains can be "squeezed out" by their neighbors (perhaps eventually attenuating really high frequency material and/or resulting in a bit of cross-talk between layers in the tape as wound for storage), the larger-scale domains on mag tapes are comparable to those in the same magnetic materials as minerals: Those are stable for geological time - and indeed are how geologists tracked the Earth's magnetic field-reversals.

    The problem with mag tapes is mainly the degradation of the physical media - the glue that holds the magnetic material to the tape, and the tape itself.

    I recall a story about a misadventure at Mobile Fidelity Sound. This is a company that makes extremely high quality recordings from original master tapes. A typical operation was to use specialized low-noise equipment to cut a master at half-speed, and press it into ultra-pure, super-hard, "supervinyl" for low surface noise, undistorted playback, low wear, and environmental stability. Such a master, and copies made from it, are substantially more faithful reproductions of the input signals than magnetic master tapes.

    They were making a new vinyl disk master from a very early rock record's master tape. As the cutting proceeded, they noticed that, beyond the playback heads, the capstain/pinch roller drive's bending of the tape was causing the oxide to fall off, leaving clean tape going onto the takeup reel and totally destroying the master tape.

    Fortunately, the engineer was clueful enough to NOT stop the recording (which would have left them with neither a disk nor a master tape). Result: A new, clean, ultra-high-fidelity, master disk of the entire historic album, about as faithful a copy of what was on the master tape as it's possible to make.

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  13. Rose colored glasses by mcrbids · · Score: 1

    Your confidence is proof of your inexperience. Data... dies. Sorry, that's just the truth.

    If you've ever tried to do a data recovery on years-old data, whether it's audio tape, film, HDD, flash, CD/DVD rips, whatever. They all have an error rate that increases over time.

    The only way to preserve data long term is to actively manage it. Keep redundant copies. Use error correcting code to identify data errors and correct them. Media must be periodically re-read and written to ensure "freshness". Non-digital data must be redundantly copied in line with its utility, analog data should be digitized to minimize generation loss.

    We maintain a large ZFS file store. We scrub everything weekly, a process that does all the above to proactively identify small data errors and fix them before they become big, unrecoverable ones. We store all our data in redundant storage pools, and replicate constantly.

    This, or a process like this, is what's required to keep data squeaky clean, secure, and accurate.

    --
    I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
  14. Reel to Reel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have some audio tapes that are 50 years old and still play. I have a couple of tube decks that I acquired so I can digitize them.

  15. Laser Turntables Aren't That New by cmholm · · Score: 1

    I read about the Finial laser turntable in '88, and by the time the new owner of the technology finally got them to market in the late '90's, I had gone CD and didn't care. But, I still have the LPs stored vertically, still have a turntable, and maybe one of these days I'll eBay an ELP laser turntable.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    --
    Luke, help me take this mask off ... Just for once, let me butterfly kiss you with my own eyes.
  16. Datacenter backups by Jahat · · Score: 1

    I can't tell you how many times my backup tapes come back from cold storage unreadable....

    --
    Sola Scriptura Sola Fide Sola Gratia Sola Christus
  17. Faraday effect by Muad'Dave · · Score: 1

    Couldn't they read the tapes using a frikkin' laser and the Faraday Effect?

    --
    Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.