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White House Green-lights Tech Apprenticeship Program

theodp writes: The Washington Technology Industry Association (WTIA) says a $3.5 million U.S. Dept. of Labor grant will help it create a registered apprenticeship program that aims to train 600 people over the next five years. Participants would pay tuition for 3-4 months of pre-apprenticeship training and then be placed with an employer such as Microsoft, Accenture, F5 Networks, or Impinj for a paid apprenticeship lasting 12-18 month, which organizers hope will lead to a permanent position. Candidates will begin with a series of assessments to gauge their potential to learn computer science fundamentals. For those who pass the WTIA's tech skills assessment, next is a pre-apprenticeship training, which is estimated to cost between $5,000 and $10,000 per person. The training will follow existing certificate programs, such as those developed by Microsoft for military veterans transitioning to new careers in tech. The Get in I.T. Apprenticeship program, the White House explains, "will target recruiting women, people of color, and transitioning military members."

62 comments

  1. Unintended consequences by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 3, Funny

    Participants would pay tuition for 3-4 months of pre-apprenticeship training and then be placed with an employer such as Microsoft

    People demanded that we stop letting prisons put people into solitary for months at a time, and now they use this as a replacement. Think things through, sheeple!!!

    1. Re: Unintended consequences by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Whatever you said!

      The students should be PAID!

      But they won't because the stem shortage is nothing but a fiction invented by Silicon Valley to get cheap workers for their shit - and it is SHIT!!

      We workers are getting screwed more and more. And yet I am told I am being 'entitled'.

      When I get interrupted during MY time, You fucking OWE me!

    2. Re: Unintended consequences by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      Historically, apprenticeship programs were simply formalized excuses for abuse of employees.

      The "Masters" of a trade would take on apprentices, whom the masters would train over time... a very long, very excruciating time. Because the apprentices would have to do the majority of the heavy labor, while the "secrets" of the craft were doled out in a stingy and piecemeal manner... because actually letting the apprentice become a journeyman and then master meant 2 negative things: (1) they would lose the use of the apprentice's nearly-slave labor, and (2) the apprentice would eventually become competition for the master.

      Thus were Guilds born, and the Masters did everything in their power to delay the learning and experience of the journeymen, and the journeymen of the apprentices.

      While it may have started out as a good idea, it always devolves into those with experience and $$ taking advantage of those who don't.

      Society would probably be much better off sending them to apprenticeships for manual or semi-skilled labor, where the urge to lord it over others is less rife with potential for abuse.

  2. So, no seats in the program for me by Hasaf · · Score: 1, Insightful

    As a white guy with a minor disability that kept me out of the military (minor cerebral palsy, enough to close doors; but not enough for SSI Disability) I am essentially locked out.

    Thanks

    1. Re:So, no seats in the program for me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No surprise that the white house would discriminate against white men. Reverse racism at it's finest. Oh you are a white man, good luck to you.

    2. Re:So, no seats in the program for me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds to me like you want the government to do all the work for you. Instead of crying about 'reverse racism' you should invest in your own skills instead of expecting someone else to do it for you.

    3. Re:So, no seats in the program for me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Would a lawsuit get any traction? I can't stand this sort of thing and don't understand what's so difficult about merely hiring the best person for a job.

    4. Re:So, no seats in the program for me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Reverse racism at it's finest. Oh you are a white man, good luck to you.

      There is no such thing as "reverse racism". There is only racism. Yes, even if it is against while people, it is still racism. Nothing "reverse" about it.

      For examples of racist policies against whites, you can look no further than Zimbabwe.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      Anyway, there are cases for "racism" to counter other built-in "racism", and affirmative action is such a thing. It's not perfect, but better than leaving things as they were. The problem with affirmative action is there is plenty for cases like poor, or black, or even women in men dominated areas, but there is scant little for men in women dominated areas. Why isn't there affirmative action for men in nursing? Teaching? Equal should be equal.

    5. Re:So, no seats in the program for me by Hasaf · · Score: 1

      Truth is I have "invest[ed] in [my] own skills." I have an MBA and over ten years experience as a field technician (I got lucky and had a phone interview for that job). However, I apply for jobs and, quite frankly, it turns into a form of "oh, would you like help leaving the building." Frankly, all the systems dynamics studies (and publications) aside, I don't look like the person you want on your team, and yes, sometimes I fall down . .. no worries, I get back up; but there is no way I am geting a job through anything but a phone interview.

      I currently teach Middle School Computer apps and robotics, yes, a phone interview.

    6. Re:So, no seats in the program for me by towermac · · Score: 1

      I don't have a palsy, so I don't even get your sympathy, much less a sweet government sponsored job.

    7. Re:So, no seats in the program for me by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Informative

      If you read the fine print it's open to everyone, including white males. They are just making a specific effort to attract people from the groups mentioned, probably because experience tells them that most applicants will be white and male and they want more representative levels of diversity.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    8. Re:So, no seats in the program for me by Hasaf · · Score: 1

      Not a chance of a lawsuit, you would need actual proof of discrimination. There is only one place I had that level of proof.

      When I was younger i wanted, more than anything, to be a deputy. This is because several of my fathers friends, deputies, were very helpful as I was growing up. i wanted to be that person who helped instead of the person who needed help.

      I worked hard and passed ht e tests and put myself through the first two stages of the academy (to do the third stage I needed a department to sponsor [i.e. employ] me). The sherif of the county took me to one of the worst lunches I ever went to; he explained that if they hired me and it ever happened that I was unable to perform some superhuman task, that no one else could do either, and someone was injured as a result (he used "to be unable to tear the door off a burning car" as his example) some lawyer would turn on the county and point at me saying "you knew he had a problem when you hired him" and the county would probably loose and at the least, a case that would been had been entertained with any other deputy would be an expensive defense if I was involved.

      So, yes, in that one case someone was honest in saying they were not going to hire me because of my disability. He was the only one who ever did. there is no way I would have turned on a man I went to Mass with and went to his football, and Christmas, parties for being honest (he has passed at this point; so yes, I speak of him in past tense).

      Other than him, I just don't get calls back; but any fool can see it in their faces.

    9. Re:So, no seats in the program for me by Hasaf · · Score: 1

      It isn't a troll or off topic, look at the summary:
      "The Get in I.T. Apprenticeship program, the White House explains, 'will target recruiting women, people of color, and transitioning military members.'"

    10. Re:So, no seats in the program for me by bmo · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Yes it's troll and offtopic.

      Just because they're targeting women, minorities, and former military doesn't mean they're excluding white males. You read that into it. Because you're an ass and want to stir up "reverse racism" discussion on a tech board.

      Get. Out.

      --
      BMO

    11. Re:So, no seats in the program for me by Hasaf · · Score: 1

      I saw my expression as an honest life observation of seeing doors slammed in my face and being opened for others. I am just going to leave it at -- You haven't lived it-- and leave it at that.

    12. Re:So, no seats in the program for me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes it's troll and offtopic.

      Just because they're targeting women, minorities, and former military doesn't mean they're excluding white males. You read that into it. Because you're an ass and want to stir up "reverse racism" discussion on a tech board.

      Get. Out.

      --
      BMO

      Not who you queefed at, but listen tool. If they had said they are targeting white males, who would be crying racism immediately? women.. minorities... former military...etc.

      Racism is simply demonization of pattern recognition. That is it. The entire "ism" should die in a fire. Every healthy body on Earth including most other creatures is equipped with pattern recognition. Accusations of racism are intended to exploit guilt. That is the whole fucking god damn story.

      You just talked shit to somebody actually making extremely valid points that were in fact relevant to the topic. The commenter said they have cerebral palsy and have been discriminated against because of it.

      You should apologize and ask yourself why you are such a fucking little bitch.

    13. Re: So, no seats in the program for me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They hire teachers with access to young kids with a phone interview only? That's disturbing. Teachers need to be vetted much harder.

    14. Re:So, no seats in the program for me by plopez · · Score: 1

      Maybe you just don't interview well? Or perhaps have the wrong skill set. Or have bad references? I have yet to work in a large organization in the US where most of the organization isn't under the control of white male MBAs and Lawyers.

      --
      putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
    15. Re:So, no seats in the program for me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, the MBA should not be too much of an impediment when looking for real work. Just don't mention it to anyone.

    16. Re: So, no seats in the program for me by cyber-vandal · · Score: 1

      It's this lack of humanity and sympathy for the so-called privileged that's driven me away from what's currently occupying the left. It sounds like this man's disability has had a negative effect on his life and all you do is shit on him because he's a white man. You should be ashamed of yourself.

    17. Re: So, no seats in the program for me by bmo · · Score: 1

      It sounds like this man's disability has had a negative effect on his life and all you do is shit on him because he's a white man.

      Oh blow it out your ass. I posted a whole thing about how he can get fucking benefits for his disability, because it's kinda important and what I actually had to go through *myself* because people don't want to hire a toolmaker that looks like he's going to fall over, even though I can do the fucking job. But I don't bitch and moan about being "disadvantaged" - I got out of the fucking rat-race and do something entirely different. I'm not interested in having /another/ heart attack.

      I'm shitting on his comment because it's race-baiting on a fucking tech website. It's fucking off topic. It's fucking off topic and I made a fucking effort to be helpful and informative and he insisted on race-baiting.

      So Fuck Off.

      --
      BMO

    18. Re: So, no seats in the program for me by cyber-vandal · · Score: 1

      Helpful? Re-read what you wrote above and tell me how that was in any way helpful. Would you write it to anyone but a white man? Are we not allowed to be unhappy? Feel left out or disadvantaged? I'm sick of hearing I'm the bad guy and that I should just "man up" and stop "whining". No wonder the male suicide rate is 4 times the female one with wankers like you about.

    19. Re: So, no seats in the program for me by bmo · · Score: 1

      Yes, both of you /are/ whining.

      You are such a pussy, and so is he. Adapt or die, motherfucker.

      It's too fucking bad the "foes" list is limited to 100.

      --
      BMO

    20. Re:So, no seats in the program for me by sociocapitalist · · Score: 1

      If you read the fine print it's open to everyone, including white males. They are just making a specific effort to attract people from the groups mentioned, probably because experience tells them that most applicants will be white and male and they want more representative levels of diversity.

      If it were going to be fair and equal there would be no such statement in the first place.

      --
      blindly antisocialist = antisocial
  3. MSSA Schedule at Central TX College by theodp · · Score: 2

    Microsoft Software & Systems Academy: Certificate Cost: $3040.00

  4. Re:Target audience by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    10
    the
    H
    -
    1B
    target
    industries of
    Healthcare,
    Information
    Technology,
    Advanced
    Manufacturing
    and
    Business
    Services
    statewide

  5. We'll this sucks by rsilvergun · · Score: 4, Informative

    Tuition? Back in my day we called that training and the company paid you.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:We'll this sucks by Nrrqshrr · · Score: 2

      I dream of a day when companies will look at their employees like members of a family, and not a set of expandable parts.

    2. Re: We'll this sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's adorable... Now hand me another kitten, this thing can't juice nuthin'

    3. Re:We'll this sucks by davester666 · · Score: 1

      picturing a sea of office cubicles, and in each one, a temporary office work slowly getting more and more obese. Mmmm, these pellets are good.

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    4. Re:We'll this sucks by gweihir · · Score: 1

      You mistake this program for something that is intended to train and create competence in the participants. For these, companies used to pay back in the day when the quarterly results were not the only metric involved. Quite clearly, the tuition is the only reason why this program is implemented, namely as a way to scam those participating out of their money.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    5. Re:We'll this sucks by gweihir · · Score: 1

      Looking at employees as a critically valuable resource that needs to be maintained is entirely enough. Incidentally, any good capitalist does that. The problem is that the economy is by now dominated by really bad capitalists that have never understood what makes capitalism work.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  6. Let me guess by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Let me guess: theodp is against this, because dey are gonna take his jerb?

  7. Clueless by tomhath · · Score: 2

    WTIA leaders believe an apprenticeship program can contribute quickly, providing a non-traditional route into the technology industry, specifically to the high-paying jobs at its heart: software development engineers and technical project managers.

    (WTIA CEO Michael Schutzler says) ...“When you graduate from college—even if you graduate from UW or MIT or Stanford—basically what you know is some mechanics about coding,”

    Really? Someone with a degree from MIT or Stanford is no more qualified for a software development engineer or technical project manager role than an apprentice who just finished a 16 month internship? He really thinks that?

    1. Re:Clueless by silas_moeckel · · Score: 1

      When your looking for slave labor your not looking at mit etc. They guys go to MS etc but it's mostly a stepping stone MS gets a few years before they get scoffed up by a startup etc. They want drones that will toil away doing customer customization etc not the big sexy projects.

      --
      No sir I dont like it.
    2. Re:Clueless by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      This sort of attitude is why so many websites and devices are full of security holes. If these people took a class that helped them read through Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs, they would be well on their way to writing more secure software.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    3. Re:Clueless by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      It's not true, either......Stanford graduates don't seem to have any trouble being productive quickly in their first job after graduating. It's not just "mechanics about coding," whatever those are.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  8. Bleh, Accenture... by DorkFest · · Score: 1

    Pronounced: "Ass-Enter"

    1. Re:Bleh, Accenture... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please to do the needful.

    2. Re:Bleh, Accenture... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hmm.... The first time I've seen Accenture was on a now-defunct web site. Did you go there, too? yafr? :)

  9. Crap companies by Sam36 · · Score: 1

    Who wants to work for "Microsoft, Accenture, F5 Networks"???? Accenture is right down the street from me, but screw that.

  10. Re:Target audience by hambone142 · · Score: 2

    120 people per year for five years.

    Hardly worth mentioning.

  11. Government Training Makes People Less Employable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's well know that job training programs organized by the US Federal Government are largely wasteful failures as the record over the past 50 years can amply attest. Even if the companies listed do end up hiring a few of these trainees it will largely be to curry political favor and they will be sure to get rid of the non-performers in six months to a year once the spotlight has moved on. Meanwhile the taxpayer gets stuck with the bill. Thanks, but no thanks.

  12. Sure, but not for just this reason by s.petry · · Score: 2

    The program puts out roughly 60,000 per person, for 600 people to be 'apprenticed'. I'm not sure how much the precursors are, or if it will weed anything out (does not sound like it). Start writing those Congress Critters though, because this is pure shit.

    Why this sucks should be painfully obvious. This is Public funding to pay for Private company workers. I guess that the H1-B free-for-all they have not been able to get means that they won't pay for people in a slightly different way. Federal Tax dollars will be used to put employees into Microsoft, and a couple other much smaller companies. Meaning Microsoft will be reaping the benefit of free employees on the tax payer dime.

    Here is the thing that I repeatedly see that pisses me off.

    The state’s booming tech industry needs an estimated 3,500 new employees each year with a computer science degree, but Washington’s higher education system turns out only about 500.

    Good grief, if you want graduates in a field you PAY THEM A GOOD WAGE! We have ass loads of Business degrees because the only way to have a reasonable chance of hitting the business lottery is in either the financial services or executive fields. If you want more welders, pay people to learn the trade. This is such a basic solution to the problem I get infuriated every time I see complaints like above.

    How many people heading to college want to spend 4+ years in school (probably a good pile of debt) to make low middle class income with a STEM degree? NONE! Because on average after 20 years experience you have a chance for medium to higher middle class income, but you are not going higher than this without moving into management.

    --

    -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    1. Re:Sure, but not for just this reason by gweihir · · Score: 1

      Right on the mark. If there is a need for a certain type of skill, capitalism says that these people need to be offered significantly more money and better working conditions. After that, one needs to wait for a bit and the problem solves itself.

      So if this really were capitalism, then coders, software engineers, etc. would be treated and paid really well. That is not the case. Instead, it is a system where everybody with power tries to shovel as much money as possible into their own pockets, and screw any type of strategic acting or planning. That is not capitalism. That is a sacking&looting system, and it leaves scorched earth and nothing else.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  13. Sex Slave Ruse By White House by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is really gone to the perverse.

    US Taxpayers monies being used by the White House and DoL to support sex slaves to Silicon Valley CEOs.

  14. Racist and Sexist by stinkyjak · · Score: 1

    I thought we were past giving advantages based on race or gender. Is the government OK with racism and sexism again? WTF

    1. Re:Racist and Sexist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Umm... excuse me? Do you not understand how modern privilege works? I suppose you're one of those people who thinks that people should be chosen based on their merit. Disgusting.

  15. Sounds like a cash-cow... by gweihir · · Score: 1

    All these people paying 5'000-10'000 USD for 3 months only to be told afterwards that they do not have what it takes? Excellent. And in addition, the few ones that are really good can be exploited at low "apprentice" wages for years afterwards. A big win, except for all those participating in this.

    This is an excellent scam! Impressive. Of course, any halfway ethical person would not participate in the establishment of something like this, ever.

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    1. Re:Sounds like a cash-cow... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... would not participate in the establishment of something like this, ever.

      The scheme, like most education schemes, promises a job. It takes experience to know the academy isn't going to give someone a job to them, let alone find them a job (so really, not an apprenticeship). It takes even more experience to realize that such trade 'skills' are valid for about 12 months. And it takes cynicism to realize the likelihood that those skills probably won't be in demand in 12 months and possibly aren't in demand now. It adds-up to a lot of money for a small chance of getting the desired job.

      These 'get a sexy career' spiels all have the same lies: Work hard, improve your skill-set, and you'll get lots of respect and cash. The reality: Businesses want to off-load the cost of training and and still pay minimum wage for those students with proven aptitude.

      Expect a lot of school-leavers to sign on because they don't know the truth. Also people with degrees will: To broaden their skill-set, because their current bit of paper isn't 'enough', so they can keep busy.

  16. It'll work so well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...for the Employers: public funding and when the apprenticeship is finished you just boot them out and get the next ones.

    I have seen this stuff going on here for a long time, to promote job creation the state provides the funding and the employers
    get free or cheaper workers that they'll terminate when the program is over and then just get the next ones...

    In the meanwhile, salaries go down and of course to finance these programs they need to cut funding somewhere else: health, education, etc.

  17. Somehting like this is exactly what's needed! by ErichTheRed · · Score: 1

    Apprenticeship programs are exactly what is needed as the tech industry matures, for the following reasons:
    - Companies have an insatiable appetite for lower labor costs. Apprentices could provide this while being trained and staffing low level positions. Right now, the preferred method to get cheap labor is abuse of visa programs, where companies take advantage of foreign workers.
    - As a result of offshoring and outsourcing, a lot of low level positions in IT aren't as abundant as they once were, meaning that fewer opportunities exist for new entrants to learn and grow. When I started 20 years ago, I started at the help desk and moved into system admin work, then got an architect job. If you chop out the lower rungs of the ladder, no one can follow, and we're going to be relying on offshoring/outsourcing forever.
    - If the program is expanded industry-wide, this would _finally_ standardize entry requirements and education. This would be something that would need to be carefully researched, but limiting the supply of crap IT people ensures quality.
    - Something like this could ensure wage progression throughout a career. I know it's not exactly sexy to think about as a 20-something rockstar coder ninja, but older workers with experience employers like (but hate paying for) also have grown-up responsibilities to take care of.

    I think the education and entry requirements are the most important. Especially in my subfields (end user computing and systems management,) the industry is loaded with snake oil "consultants", magic bullet products that get sold to CIOs, and total BS artists that jump from job to job undetected. Making sure someone knows what they're talking about and has experience is a good thing for everyone.

    1. Re:Somehting like this is exactly what's needed! by Foofoobar · · Score: 1

      I disagree. Autodidacts should be allowed NOT to have to pay for those 3-4 months and take an evaluation test to enter the apprenticeship if they have the skills but not the experience. This is yet another attempt at taking money from those who dont have it or dont need to give it.

      --
      This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
    2. Re:Somehting like this is exactly what's needed! by ErichTheRed · · Score: 1

      The problem with exempting "autodidacts" from basic education requirements is that you can get people who claimed them learned everything themselves, but have huge holes in their fundamentals. How many "web architects" don't understand basic security? How many "systems engineers" leave huge holes open in infrastructure they build? The Anthem breach was caused by someone leaving anonymous FTP open to the Internet on a bunch of servers, for example. You can argue it was an oversight, but my opinion is that a lot of the low level basics just don't show up in people's training plans anymore. The abstraction level is so high for people starting out building apps on sanitized frameworks that people may never see the actual operations that occur under the hood.

      If the classroom part of the apprenticeship covered the fundamentals that aren't covered by vendor classes, that would be good. It wouldn't eliminate problems, but it would eliminate the excuse that people didn't know. Unions run apprenticeship programs to ensure they have a future work force. Like I said before, if you eliminate the paths to the good jobs, you eliminate the ability for someone to progress from zero experience to "master craftsman." Say you get rid of all help desk and "ticket-crunching" run of the mill admin jobs and send them to India. How would you recommend someone get their start in IT once that stepping stone is eliminated?

  18. autodidacts by Foofoobar · · Score: 1

    This does not take into consideration autodidacts. Those 3-4 months are WASTED. They need to have a KLEP test for those who believe they have the necessary skills to enter the program as is but do not have a degree OR the experience.

    --
    This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
    1. Re:autodidacts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How about taking people who might already have the degree and experience, would be willing to take a pay cut, but got shitcanned by H1B layoffs?

  19. Is math that hard? by lionchild · · Score: 1

    The plan is to spend $3.5M to train 600 people over 5 years. So that's roughly $1,167/person/year. These tech companies can't spend that per year to do their own talent search, the US Department of Labor has to subsidize their hiring practices in their HR departments? Honestly, this sounds like the cost of finding good candidates that fit your organization.

    Spending the money up front to find the right person to fit the company, means you train them up, apprentice them if you will, and because they're the right fit, they stay longer, work harder, are overall happier with the organization and are more productive.

    This isn't rocket science.

    --
    Awk! Pieces of eight. Pieces of eight. Pieces of seven... ERROR: General Protection Fault. [Paroty Error.]
    1. Re:Is math that hard? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except that, if the companies themselves hired the people as apprentices and then demanded $5,000-$10,000 from the candidate upfront to pay for their own training (while not paying them in that interim,) people would rightfully complain mightily about grapes-of-wrath.

      But if the Guv'Mint requires people first to pony up their education costs then it is all O'Tay, Buckwheat.

      Granted, this is probably a pilot program, but I'm far more pissed at the notion that a whole whopping 500 PEOPLE is considered progress. Try again, Obama, and oh - pick up the training costs, too.

  20. How to fix that by JoeCommodore · · Score: 1

    Well if you want to see more Americans trained and hired, it's simple - just stop the H1B programs, companies will be compelled to train and hire. If theres such a big need companies will foot the bill and provide the training.

    --
    "Enjoy what you're doing! If it becomes drudgery, you're doing it wrong!" - Jim Butterfield