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Federal Court Invalidates 11-Year-old FBI Gag Order On NSL Recipient

vivaoporto writes: The Calyx Institute reports that an 11-year-old gag order has been lifted from the recipient of a National Security Letter served by the FBI in 2004. A federal court found there wasn't a "good reason" to keep the man, Nicholas Merrill, from talking about it, "nor has the Government provided the Court with some basis to assure itself that the link between disclosure and risk of harm is substantial." The judge who invalidated the gag order, Victor Marrero, is the same judge that struck down a portion of the revised USA PATRIOT Act in 2007, forcing investigators to go through the courts to obtain approval before ordering ISPs to give up information on customers, instead of just sending them a National Security Letter. After a 90-day waiting period (for the government to mull an appeal), Merrill will be able to say whatever he wants about the case, finally completing the partial victory he managed back in 2010.

81 comments

  1. They still have a 90 day gag by nobuddy · · Score: 2

    To allow for appeals. A great step forward, but not yet a victory.

    1. Re:They still have a 90 day gag by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      The best case I can make for the government is an innocent person happens to be an associate of a terrorist suspect, and letting the innocent person talk about it would alert the suspect.

      It isn't much, and I don't know if it is even proper to do that.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    2. Re:They still have a 90 day gag by AK+Marc · · Score: 0

      How would a gag order help anything? The innocent person would simply tell the suspect that he got a gag order he can't talk about, wink wink. Then, without violating the gag order, the suspect would know 90% of what he needs to know to invalidate any reason for the gag order.

      Gag orders have no useful purpose, unless issued on *everyone* between an arrest and trial (called "name suppression" everywhere outside the US). This common practice ensures "innocent until proven guilty" survives. After all, who doesn't think OJ did it? His name is forever stained with a crime he was acquitted of. That's not how the system is supposed to work. Even if some would argue that it was just in that case, what about all the others, rape suspects come to mind, where just the accusation causes actual loss to the accused.

    3. Re:They still have a 90 day gag by mcl630 · · Score: 2

      That doesn't really apply here. Merrill runs an ISP and the NSL was (presumably) for information on one or more of his customers. Disclosing what types of information the FBI wanted still wouldn't tell you which customer(s) they were investigating. And its a moot point anyways, as the FBI admits the case(s) was/were closed years ago. There's no possible justification left here for a gag order.

      NSLs were intended for time-sensitive extreme cases where the suspect(s) can't be tipped off, but the FBI issues thousands per year, so clearly they're not just using them for the extreme cases. And trying to keep a gag order in place 11 years after it was issued (and supposedly time-sensitive) goes far beyond "stretching the law".

    4. Re:They still have a 90 day gag by ConfusedVorlon · · Score: 1

      the justification is along the lines of:

      --
      If it becomes public knowledge that we can collect XXX from an ISP, then terrorists will know that XXX is unsafe and start to use alternate means to do YYY.
      As a result, we'll be less likely to catch them.
      --

      It's not an illogical argument. The question is whether it is constitutional and/or proportional.

    5. Re:They still have a 90 day gag by mcl630 · · Score: 1

      That falsely assumes that the FBI always collects XXX and only XXX and hasn't and will never collect YYY or ZZZ.

    6. Re:They still have a 90 day gag by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Anyone who thinks OJ did it, and was not privy to all the evidence (e.g. part of the trial), is a fool who has been manipulated by mass media. The fact is that none of us know any key evidence of that trial. To be honest what I do know shows that no one could ever be convicted of that crime, because the investigating police screwed up so bad that they should be charged. Our system is based on the ideal "It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer" - Blackstone's formulation. So in my opinion in this case our system did it's job, except that the investigating police should have been charged with negligence.

      As to the main topic, If anyone were to issue me a gag order in the form of a NSL I would say arrest me now. I don't believe in a system that cant be legally challenged. Then contest the case as best possible in court. Now if my silence were requested in a case where they were investigating a crime where the defendant could challenge the accusations then I would happily maintain my silence until I was called as a witness in trial, or the trial had concluded (provided that trial is within a reasonable time, 11 years is not a reasonable time). Everyone should have the chance to prove their innocence or guilt in a trial.

    7. Re:They still have a 90 day gag by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If it becomes public knowledge that we can collect XXX from an ISP, then terrorists will know that XXX is unsafe and start to use alternate means to do YYY.
      As a result, we'll be less likely to catch them.

      It's not an illogical argument.

      What part of "any tangible thing" don't you and "terrorists" (cough.. drug users/dealers) understand?

    8. Re: They still have a 90 day gag by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Given the facts as I understand them, do I think OJ did it? Yes

      Given the facts as I understand them, do I think I could in good conscious vote a conviction? Different question

      But them, the most important question - do I think a defendant would be convicted of a crime, given the defense OJ's financial resources enabled him to mount? I would guess most defendants would walk rather than plead...

    9. Re:They still have a 90 day gag by aybiss · · Score: 1

      ....and that they aren't already using YYY and ZZZ, and XXY, and XYZ.

      If the terrrorists really want to stop you seeing what they're saying, they simply won't use any combination of X, Y or Z. They'll use A, B and C where those things are completely unknown to you.

      --
      It's OK Bender, there's no such thing as 2.
    10. Re:They still have a 90 day gag by cfalcon · · Score: 1

      Everyone believes OJ did it because OJ did it. When you say "that's not the way it's supposed to work", I think you mean that we aren't supposed to consider someone who was not found guilty to be guilty- that it's a failure of the system that we do. But the standards of evidence are different- it's reasonable to assume a system will find that someone who did commit a crime to not be provably guilty some reasonable percent of the time, because the standard is "beyond a reasonable doubt".

      Everyone knows OJ did it. But it couldn't be proven in court. But he still fucking murdered his wife lol. He even wrote a book, "If I did it". Brazen.

    11. Re:They still have a 90 day gag by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Interestingly, he was found guilty to a "preponderance of evidence" in civil court. Because he did it.

    12. Re:They still have a 90 day gag by gweihir · · Score: 1

      You seem to think this system is a bout justice and doing what is right. Or even just respecting the constitution. It is not, the occasional judge that is actually honest and understands things notwithstanding.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    13. Re:They still have a 90 day gag by gweihir · · Score: 1

      Only retards "know" this. In order to "know", you actually have to have evidence strong enough for a conviction.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    14. Re:They still have a 90 day gag by cfalcon · · Score: 1

      Nope. In fact, only a retard would fail to distinguish between knowing something and being able to prove it in court beyond a reasonable doubt.

      Everyone. Fucking. Knows. It.

      And for good reason. He did it.

      You would expect guilty men to go free in a society with high standards of proof of guilt. It's reasonable (and correct) to assume someone not found guilty is, did, in fact, do the time.

      OJ essentially confesses in a book, and also there was even more stuff that would have been "evidence" that came out after the fact. He wasn't found guilty of the crime he did. That's fact.

    15. Re:They still have a 90 day gag by cfalcon · · Score: 1

      ** It's reasonable (and correct) to assume someone not found guilty did, in fact, do the crime.

    16. Re:They still have a 90 day gag by cfalcon · · Score: 1

      Here a fast google finds this:

      http://www.ocregister.com/arti...

      So we have OJ confessing, and a guy overhears it, and it gets thrown out as possible evidence. It's reasonable to throw it out for a jury trial, but it still happened.

      Trials are not reality. Trials capture some subset of reality. You can look up false convictions, and we have a system rigged in favor of the defendant, so it's utterly irrational to assume that there would be more false positives (false convictions) than false negatives (guilty man walks free).

      I didn't really think there were still people who think he's innocent. I mean, what's the other narrative?

      "This guy who is abusive has a wife who is cheating on him. She knows he's furious with her, she tells everyone he's gonna kill her. She gets killed with his blood everywhere by some totally non-OJ guy who just fucking lept out of nowhere to murder her and then disappeared like some high level final fantasy ninja, leaving no evidence or sign, a literal hit job that is unprecedented outside of story books. Tragically, innocent OJ is targeted, so he tries real hard to run from cops, then he half-confesses to people who he trusts, and then he's correctly found innocent. He swears to hunt down the killer. He is sued in civil court and immediately found liable for her death. He hunts down the killer by golfing in Miami and writing a book "If I did it" where he lays down how he could have murdered his wife if it wasn't done by the unidentified high level ninja who has no motivation or material evidence."

      I have seriously never talked to anyone who thinks he didn't murder her. It's surreal. No one has offered any other explanation of how she died and why he looks so damned guilty, besides, he's guilty. In court, of course, this doesn't matter- you don't need to produce the guilty party to go free. But in reality, yes, it does matter.

    17. Re:They still have a 90 day gag by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except that's not how these gag orders are suppose to work. Under the gag order you are not allowed to say you got a gag order. The government originally was trying to make the case, for example, that the communication companies, by contesting the gag order were already breaking the gag order, because they admitted the gag order existed.

  2. most life insurance by turkeydance · · Score: 0

    has a probation period of 90 days

  3. 90 days... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Let's all wish Nicholas Merrill good luck. Hopefully what he has to say is not particularly embarrassing to anyone that could make it look like an accident.

  4. 11 years later the die has been cast by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 4, Interesting

    >> A federal court found there wasn't a "good reason" to keep the man from talking about it ...because 11 years ago there was still a debate raging about "whether" we should be under surveillance at all times, whereas the debate has now shifted to "how" we are under surveillance at all times.

    1. Re:11 years later the die has been cast by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      NO NO NO.
      There is NO debate about WHETHER or HOW mass surveillance.

      The CORRECT answer is NO mass surveillance.
      And a great big FUCK OFF to anyone like you who says or implies there ever should be.

    2. Re:11 years later the die has been cast by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The debate is framed by the US agencies behind the surveillance, as well as the US government, not by some guy on the internet.

    3. Re:11 years later the die has been cast by lambsonic · · Score: 1

      The debate is framed by the US agencies behind the surveillance, as well as the US government, not by some guy on the internet.

      The debate was framed by our forefathers.

      --
      # make clean sig
    4. Re:11 years later the die has been cast by dbreeze · · Score: 1

      And they jointly held the thought that, ..."The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."..., was endowed to every person by their Creator. Not by law or government, but by the "God of nature and nature's God." Law and government can only get in line with "self-evident truth" or it fails the Spicoli test: https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

      --
      When the king heard the words of the Book of the Law he tore his robes.2Kings22:11
    5. Re:11 years later the die has been cast by gweihir · · Score: 0

      As mass surveillance is exclusively done in totalitarian states, it is pretty clear there is a strong faction on government that wants this very much. This also means that to any citizen there is no sane way to be for mass-surveillance.

      But hey, Hitler got cheered into office. The masses are stupid.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    6. Re:11 years later the die has been cast by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      So, how does that apply to warranted collection like we are talking about?

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    7. Re:11 years later the die has been cast by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      Hitler didn't get cheered into office while talking about gassing Jews though.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    8. Re:11 years later the die has been cast by lambsonic · · Score: 1

      We aren't talking about that. NSLs are not warrants.

      --
      # make clean sig
    9. Re:11 years later the die has been cast by doccus · · Score: 1

      As mass surveillance is exclusively done in totalitarian states, it is pretty clear there is a strong faction on government that wants this very much. This also means that to any citizen there is no sane way to be for mass-surveillance.

      But hey, Hitler got cheered into office. The masses are stupid.

      Seems to me this could be shortened a bit.. "As mass surveillance is exclusively done in totalitarian states, it is pretty clear that we must live in a totalitarian state"

  5. I've said it before, but... by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 4, Insightful

    we don't arrest, try, and if convicted, punish nearly enough FBI, NSA, and CIA agents.

  6. Freedom? by Moof123 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    11 years to get justice is not something we should be proud of. How we can argue our system of laws and democracy is any sort of role model is completely lost on me.

    1. Re:Freedom? by bmo · · Score: 0

      Pretty much this.

      He hasn't "won" anything. He merely has his rights back which were taken away unlawfully.

      The FBI won a 11 year silence outta this guy.

      Someone up there said that he hoped that whatever it was wasn't *too* embarrassing to the agency so that he wouldn't be "disappeared" before the 90 day clock runs out.

      Ya know, if I were me, I would have a deadman-switch on any kind of information that I was forced to keep quiet. If I died, the information would become public. It's easy enough to do, and should be obvious to implement by anyone here.

      --
      BMO

    2. Re:Freedom? by Moof123 · · Score: 2

      My guess is the guy really was not even dealing with anything all that important. Time and again when the veil has finally been pulled back there have been only benign things being protected. What we have seen is a pattern where warrants are too hard, or the evidence for one is too shaky, so an NSL is an easy way to get the same thing done without all those annoying due process steps to deal with.

      It is the corollary to the TSA security theater. "National Security" gets waived around like some trump card to get around our rights even when it is completely unwarranted.

    3. Re:Freedom? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd rather live on my feet than die on my knees.

    4. Re:Freedom? by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

      He didn't win shit, he's a pussy.
      It's sheeple like you who permit and embrace govt intrusion and control upon your life.
      So use the God damned First Amendment and open your god damned mouth and speak and publish.
      Quit being a fucking pussy.

      ...says the Anonymous Coward who is, apparently, to much of a "pussy" to post under his own account or use his real name.

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    5. Re:Freedom? by silas_moeckel · · Score: 2

      NSL's lack consequence to those that are writing them. If they are going to stay around they need personal consequences to whoever ordered them and attested to anything in them if they are found to be invalid, overreaching etc etc. That needs to be coupled with the government automatically paying all legal costs win or lose. Nobody should have to be out of pocket to defend their basic rights from the government.

      --
      No sir I dont like it.
    6. Re:Freedom? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't see YOU using YOUR *real name* and talking your shit to the govt.... you pussy ;-)

    7. Re:Freedom? by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 1

      I completely agree that NSL's lack consequence to those that write them. The lack of a court involved, and the tendency of court to issue them on the slightest prtext or with "rubber stamp" approvals contribute to this lack.

      I'm not sure I can endorse "the government automatically paying all legal costs". Some suits filed will be stupid, and expensive, and filed by companies that that _do_ commit criminal abuses such as selling weaponry to foreign enemies.

    8. Re:Freedom? by silas_moeckel · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure how a suit will be stupid to fight a NSL. This is general asking for third party data after they can not let the actual owner of the data know so they should be act as a good custodian of their data. You think a company suspected of gun running is going to get a NSL letter asking them to divulge that they are?

      --
      No sir I dont like it.
    9. Re:Freedom? by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, because the government couldn't figure out who JustAnotherOldGuy is in about 10 seconds if they needed to.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    10. Re:Freedom? by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 1

      > I'm not sure how a suit will be stupid to fight a NSL. This is general asking for third party data a

      I assume that you mean that NSL's in general, ask for third party data. While this is true, it's the _specific_ cases, such as the Silk Road operators, who'd gladly reach out for lawyers at no fiscal risk to themselves. And that was a service where the owners of the service, themselves, have been convicted of criminal behavior involving that service. So I'm unclear why you think that a "company suspected of gun running" would not hesitate to battle the NSL in court, at the government's expense, win or lose.

    11. Re:Freedom? by silas_moeckel · · Score: 1

      A company suspected of gunrunning should be getting a subpoena not a NSL.

      The silk road had no company to send a NSL to it was a dark web operation pure and simple.

      --
      No sir I dont like it.
  7. Every single gag order needs to have an expiration by gurps_npc · · Score: 3, Interesting
    These things should, as a matter of law, have an expiration date set when they are declared. Let the US government come in and argue to extend it all they want, but they should all come with an automatic expiration date.

    In addition, any and all "statue of limitations" should res-start for any information that that was gagged.

    Same thing for non-disclosure and confidentiality agreements - not to exceed 10 years.

    --
    excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
  8. Land of the free... by Kyusaku+Natsume · · Score: 0

    Many Americans have a very wide concept of freedom, almost to make it meaningless.

    --
    Mexico: 100% conservative's America now!
    1. Re:Land of the free... by Qzukk · · Score: 1

      "You are free to do what I want you to do"

      --
      If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
    2. Re:Land of the free... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Once we find out the details he hasn't been allowed to tell us, I expect to find out that this was all an abuse, an unwarranted infringement of his freedom.
      We need to do some things to roll back this abusive government behavior.
      But "almost to make it meaningless" is tremendous hyperbole.
      The facts about what needs improvement shouldn't blind us to the facts about the freedom we do have.

  9. Are you paid by the government to do a job? by Thing+1 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    If not, then they have no say over your non-harming actions -- just as Walmart cannot fine me for violating their internal policies, but they can fine their workers. If you harm someone, then you're going to face consequences, whether through Common Law, or through vigilantism.

    But, they don't want anybody to understand that their rules only apply to their employees. Which is why they crack down on people distributing FIJA fliers (from http://fija.org/ -- note that they take Bitcoin donations now!) outside of courthouses.

    The Constitution guarantees a freedom of expression in the first amendment. It does not say, "This amendment is inferior to NSA letters"; it says, and I quote, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

    The existence of "government classified information" precisely indicates the existence of "government conspiracies." A conspiracy is when two or more people work together, when one or more other people don't know about it. A surprise party is a benign form of conspiracy. Malicious forms include the mafia, the Patriot Act, etc.

    Now, were I in his position, would I speak freely? That's a difficult one; I like my freedom, but then again I'm a shard of light and I'll return to the Creator so it doesn't really matter what happens to this corpse. Still, I avoid pain.

    --
    I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
    1. Re:Are you paid by the government to do a job? by mark-t · · Score: 1

      ...Walmart cannot fine me for violating their internal policies, but they can fine their workers.

      Do you have a reference for that?

    2. Re:Are you paid by the government to do a job? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is probably the same thing as docking pay or demotion.

    3. Re:Are you paid by the government to do a job? by mark-t · · Score: 1

      Demotion is one thing, one that relegates an employee to being on a different pay scale. Docking pay is another matter entirely, and isn't generally legal unless the employee has agreed, in writing, to have their pay docked, for the specific reason the employer is docking it.

    4. Re:Are you paid by the government to do a job? by cbhacking · · Score: 1

      It's incorrect. They can dock your pay (though you could take them to court over that if it appears unjustified) or fire you (same), or sue *you* for breach of contract, or press criminal charges (if they can convince the cops to do so) and hope the justice system will fine you for them, but they cannot unilaterally fine you. An employment contract does not give the employer that kind of authority over you; only the courts (civil or criminal) have that power.

      --
      There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
    5. Re:Are you paid by the government to do a job? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It doesn't appear to be incorrect at all. He scoped it - "for violating their internal policies". You scoped it too, "you could take them to court over that if it appears unjustified". So, they basically said "they can fine you when justified", and you basically said "you could take them to court if it's not justified". Saying that they're incorrect is simply stroking your own ego.

    6. Re:Are you paid by the government to do a job? by mark-t · · Score: 1

      They can dock your pay

      No, they cannot. Not legally, anyways.

      though you could take them to court over that if it appears unjustified

      One wouldn't have to.... just file a complaint straight to the government and let them fight it for you. You'd probably get fired, of course... but you'd still eventually get all of the money that they owed you (within 4 to 6 weeks on the outside, if you are unlucky). Also, the employer would face a fine.

      Employers are are *NOT* legally allowed to be docking employee pay for reasons that the employee has not specifically agreed to in advance, and in writing (eg, purchasing company stocks or bonds or the like).

      I know that Walmart has some pretty shady practices in regards to how they treat some of their employees, so it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if they are actually doing this, but if there is any proof at all of the allegation, then they could get into a whole lot of trouble.

    7. Re:Are you paid by the government to do a job? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Totally love how you stupid slashdotters downmod THE TRUTH.
      No wonder the country sucks... you're all too busy sucking the cock that fucks you in your sheeple ass.

    8. Re:Are you paid by the government to do a job? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, of course. It can't possibly have anything to do with your utterly charming personality on display here. Nope, can't be that. It's always someone else's fault. Yep.

      Grow up, will you?

    9. Re:Are you paid by the government to do a job? by houghi · · Score: 1

      USofA is a thoughplace to work. Where I live, a compaby can not fine their workers. They can fire them, but not fine them.

      They can reprimand them, but that is different.

      If tghe company wants you to feel the consequences, they can do several things.
      1) Not give you a bonus
      2) Never ever give you a promotion again
      3) Never give you a raise
      4) Go to court

      But they need to watch out for 2 and 3 that it isn't harrasment, because that could mean that the person takes them to court.

      But the company can not fine you.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
  10. Judicial Activism by Grishnakh · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The judge who invalidated the gag order, Victor Marrero, is the same judge that struck down a portion of the revised USA PATRIOT Act in 2007, forcing investigators to go through the courts to obtain approval before ordering ISPs to give up information on customers, instead of just sending them a National Security Letter.

    Uh-oh, it's one of those activist judges again!! How dare a judge stand up for our rights!

    1. Re:Judicial Activism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not a judges job to stand up for our rights. That's our job.
      Judges interpret the law, and that is exactly what he did. He didn't attempt to write any law from the bench. That's what happens on a grand scale. And when it's in line with what you like, you cheer. And when it isn't you scream that it's an attack on democracy. Turns out, it's an attack on democracy whether you agree with it or not.

  11. Leak it by ArchieBunker · · Score: 1

    What happens if you leak the letter? Jail time? What if a copy shows up on Wikileaks? They can't prove 100% you leaked it.

    --
    Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
    1. Re:Leak it by Moof123 · · Score: 2

      These have been written to even exclude your lawyer with lots of scare tactics. Lots of statutes like obstructing justice give broad capability to go after you. We are all un-indicted felons in some way. All it takes is a determined enough prosecutor and enough apathy on the public's part..

    2. Re:Leak it by BitterOak · · Score: 1

      What happens if you leak the letter? Jail time? What if a copy shows up on Wikileaks? They can't prove 100% you leaked it.

      They can if you were the only one who received the letter.

      --
      If I can be modded down for being a troll, can I be modded up for being an orc, or a balrog?
    3. Re:Leak it by ArchieBunker · · Score: 1

      They wouldn't keep a copy for verification purposes? How would they prove they wrote it?

      --
      Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
    4. Re:Leak it by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 1

      What happens if you leak the letter?

      Who says that they let you keep the letter, or even make a copy of it? They probably just flash it to your lawyer once, and then the letter disappears again.

      A Top Tip from Nazi war criminals . . . never leave behind a paper trail . . . anything incriminating with your signature on it.

      --
      Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    5. Re:Leak it by silas_moeckel · · Score: 1

      They are written to imply getting a judge to agree is a different matter. At worst you need a lawyer with clearance somewhat hard to do but not impossible.

      --
      No sir I dont like it.
    6. Re:Leak it by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 2

      it blows my mind that the US gov can attack a citizen like this and also scare punishment into him for his LEGAL RIGHT to seek a lawyer when being legally confronted.

      no lawyer? how is that possible? I know, it was all back room laws that we were not meant to have input on. but still, this is a french-revolution style injustice. if heads needed to roll in modern times, this would be one qualifying event.

      you want to put legal shit on me? AND deny me any right to even examine this and see if there was just cause? unbelievable! well, actually, given how things now are, its completely believable and that's the biggest shame of all. that we now don't even bat an eye when shit like this happens.

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    7. Re:Leak it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They probably just flash it to your lawyer once, and then the letter disappears again.

      Nope, you are not even allowed to tell your lawyer about it. You must act on the letter with no legal counsel and certainly cannot contest it in court.

  12. Great American Hero by PopeRatzo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Sometimes, the really great men go unsung:

    The judge who invalidated the gag order, Victor Marrero, is the same judge that struck down a portion of the revised USA PATRIOT Act in 2007, forcing investigators to go through the courts to obtain approval before ordering ISPs to give up information on customers, instead of just sending them a National Security Letter.

    Judge Marrero, we salute you.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
    1. Re:Great American Hero by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The scary thing is, this is the only reason we're still America- like a dozen judges nationwide who don't have their heads up their asses.

  13. Re:Every single gag order needs to have an expirat by orlanz · · Score: 1

    No, you are being too easy on them. 80% of such can have 5 years, 15% can have 10 years, and 5% can have 15 years. They can extend all they want, but can only extend 20% of outstanding orders. That way the supposed "open" government only operates 20% in the shadows. They have full freedom to choose which 20%. Our nation isn't so fragile that we need this many protections on national security. And if it was, for God's sake, let the darn thing die and be reborn stronger.

    For non-disclosure & confidentiality agreements. 5 for those involving people, and 10 for those involving corporations. Extensions must be agreed by all parties.

  14. Re:Every single gag order needs to have an expirat by cbhacking · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Nice concept, but you realize the 20% limit just means that, if they're at their limit and want to extend another one, the "solution" (from their perspective) is to just issue another four gag orders to whoever they can possibly get one on, right? That's the problem with systems like this; when the system is already being abused (and if it can be abused, it will be) then the easiest solution any time they run into a soft limit like you describe is "more abuse".

    --
    There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
  15. Penalties for the author? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Now can we have the guy who wrote it punished?

    Seriously. It's been 11 years. The guy's a lobbyist now. And how many invalid letters did he write? And what consequence was there to them for so doing?

    Thought so.

    AC

    1. Re:Penalties for the author? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And what consequence was there to them for so doing?

      Promotions and pay increases?

  16. An appeal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... for the government to mull an appeal ...

    Of course they'll appeal: Because look, terrorist and we can't let the terrorists win.

  17. New TLD request: .canary by RealGene · · Score: 2

    So that everyone could simply have a web page stating "As of today's date, your name has not received a National Security Letter".
    It's not against the law to remove a web page (yet).

    --
    Mission: To provide products that consume time and energy as entertainingly as permitted by the laws of thermodynamics.
  18. Re:Every single gag order needs to have an expirat by Mark+of+the+North · · Score: 1

    You've hit upon something important. Most Slashdot readers haven't been served any kind of gag order, but I'll bet quite a few of us are under NDAs and confidentiality agreements. In a nutshell, the situation is that, if you have signed this sort of agreement, it can be used as leverage against you, even if you aren't breaching it in any way. Just the threat of legal action can be used to push you around. You could be forced into a court room to argue against an organization's claims. Even if squeaky clean, an organization can usually bankrupt an individual long before hitting the court room. If an individual were to successfully defend against claims in court, they would still likely end up losing several hundred thousand dollars. It turns out these sort of SLAPP suits are common. So lets say you realize that your employer is breaking a law in a way that you can't stomach. If you've signed any kind of confidentiality agreement, unless you aren't very sure that you can report the problem to the authorities (don't even think of going to the media) anonymously, or that legislation that protects your disclosure is in place (talk to a good lawyer to be sure), you are in a bad place. A person in this situation should probably just quit and stay quiet.